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baskervils
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#1
11th April 2010
Old 11th April 2010
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Coles 4038 and 4040

I got a Coles 4038 last month, and it was like having light in the darkness. It's a fantastic mic, especially for metallic percussion.

I was considering getting a second Coles 4038 for drum overheads, but I was curious if any of you who own a Coles 4040 would recommend getting one of those instead.

I've read from previous posts that the character is different, but it also retains many of the 'jolly' qualities of the 4038 with a brighter character.

I you were me, would you go for a pair or mix it up?
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11th April 2010
Old 11th April 2010
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I've got three 4038's, one factory matched pair that rules my world since I got them. I've been interested in the 4040 but never got around to try one.

I use the pair on virtually anything the needs to be captured in stereo, overheads, piano, percussion or just the room...

a
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11th April 2010
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How do you place them on piano ? I've got a a pair of 4038 too. I prefer LD condensers for recording my piano.
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11th April 2010
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have you tried the single 4038 as a mono overhead?

you may find you don't need the second, although a pair is always useful
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11th April 2010
Old 11th April 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schneider View Post
have you tried the single 4038 as a mono overhead?

you may find you don't need the second, although a pair is always useful
Yeah! Mitch Easter was questioning the mono / stereo thing in terms of overheads. My drum room is relatively small, so that will probably work fine.

Spending LESS money would be ideal. Thanks.
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11th April 2010
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get a pair (4038) you will be happy... a studio , it's like Noah's freakin ark - the Big G demands 2 of everything.
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11th April 2010
Old 11th April 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by didier.brest View Post
How do you place them on piano ? I've got a a pair of 4038 too. I prefer LD condensers for recording my piano.
4038's are incredible on piano - they just need some distance so they're flatter and don't have a ton of proximity effect.

I have a matched pair with the AEA stereo kit - my favorite on grand is a blumlein setup about halfway down the strings out in front of the lid, angled down towards the strings and "looking" towards the hammers. Find the spot where you get a nice centred image.

I find this gives a beautiful wide lush sound, with depth and a sense of the room without having the close mic'ed 'bass in one ear, treble in the other ear' image.

The sound is still fairly dark, but works great for jazz and ballad type material. My Hammer is amazing for lifting the top end if needed.

The thing I love best about the 4038's is the euphonic, punchy thing it does with transients, especially those with lots of mids and low mids (e.g. piano, drums). Very musical.
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12th April 2010
Old 12th April 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by didier.brest View Post
How do you place them on piano ? I've got a a pair of 4038 too. I prefer LD condensers for recording my piano.
Depends on the situation, I have a nice upright piano from 1905 that has really deep bass, I always take off the front that covers the strings and roll out the piano about an meter angled towards a wall. The mic's generally set-up about 0.5-1m from the strings angled downwards. Sometimes I have to check phase and adjust by angling one or the other up or down. Sounds great hard pan'ed or in combination with a pair of LDC's high above the piano for more room.

If I want it really up close I stick in a M160 in the middle and keep it in mono...

drums on the other hand is something that I really use the 4038's for.

For a great and really spread out sound just put one right in front and one behind the drummer hard pan and add a condenser (AKG 414 B-ULS works great) on the kick and a dynamic on the snare... very prog-rock!

a
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12th April 2010
Old 12th April 2010
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If you add an octave or so to the top of a 4038 you get a 4040... which is my favorite of the Coles microphones [like I don't use 4038's if there are 4040's around]. On a piano? ...well it kinda depends on what kind of piano sound you're going for... "one in the room" will work nicely if you have a good room... one over the harp and one over the label works great if you're going for more of the "un-natural stereo rock piano" sound... etc., etc., etc.

I guess my "use point" is that I have used them in every way I might have used a 4038 [positions, etc.] when I've had the opportunity as I appreciate not having to pull up that octave with a 10k shelving EQ [and YES -- the 4040 is GREAT for some singers!!!!].

Peace.
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16th April 2010
Old 16th April 2010
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Has anyone compared the 4038 v.s 4040 on a guitar cab? I'm getting a ribbon to go play along with my dynamics and I've considered the 4038, 4040 and the M160. R121 is too expensive for me.

/J
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17th April 2010
Old 17th April 2010
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for gtr cabs the 160 is more versatile than the coles, although i do use the coles often for gtrs. ridiculously good drum mics, those coles.
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18th April 2010
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id get the 4038. they are a trusted tool for over 50 years...the 4040s aren't.
sometimes will need a good eq though. but there are so many situations that i wouldn't want any more high end than the 4038s have (recording a taylor guitar for instance - or bright sounding cymbals). if i do, i us a good hardware eq. i'm just a fan of non hyped mics. i saw the 4040s frequency chart a few minutes ago for the first time. i never heard the mic but the fequency chart looks horrible.
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18th April 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by salomonander View Post
id get the 4038. they are a trusted tool for over 50 years...the 4040s aren't.
sometimes will need a good eq though. but there are so many situations that i wouldn't want any more high end than the 4038s have (recording a taylor guitar for instance - or bright sounding cymbals). if i do, i us a good hardware eq. i'm just a fan of non hyped mics. i saw the 4040s frequency chart a few minutes ago for the first time. i never heard the mic but the fequency chart looks horrible.
Care to comment Fletcher?
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18th April 2010
Old 18th April 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vincentvangogo View Post
Care to comment Fletcher?
Not particularly.

We all have an opinion, and to each of us that opinion is valid.
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18th April 2010
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19th April 2010
Old 19th April 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peacock View Post
I prefer the Coles 4040. Its one of the best mics made IMO.
I agree.

Though, I love the 4038 too. Just a different animal, really.

Both microphones have served me well in my experience.
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#17
19th April 2010
Old 19th April 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by salomonander View Post
i saw the 4040s frequency chart a few minutes ago for the first time. i never heard the mic but the fequency chart looks horrible.
irrelevant, because the 4040 SOUNDS wonderful.

i have had a matched pair for several years.

the 4038 also sounds wonderful, a different kind of wonderful.
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19th April 2010
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Just saw a prototype of the new stereo Coles at the NAB show.

Brilliant packaging allows it to be separated into 2 mics, 4040 ribbon
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19th April 2010
Old 19th April 2010
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Does the 4040 have the same low-end and mid-range magic that the 4038 has? I'm particularly thinking of the way it handles transients and the "reach" it has (like when you use 4038's for drum o/h's and the snare sounds like you're close mic'ing it).

I'm thinking of getting a 3rd 4038 to use as a mono o/h, so I can use my matched pair for stereo rooms, but it may be better to get a 4040 instead (I just want to make sure that even though it has more top, it still has that same 4038 mojo).
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20th April 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baskervils View Post
I was considering getting a second Coles 4038 for drum overheads, but I was curious if any of you who own a Coles 4040 would recommend getting one of those instead.

If you were me, would you go for a pair or mix it up?
I have never used a 4040.

Do you already like the sound of the 4038 on drums?

I started with one 4038 for about 6 months and then got the second because I knew it would be pure gold on drums. Instantly obtained the best drum sounds of my life with the pair and an API 3124.

I like the way they sound anywhere near a drum kit: overhead, chest height over the floor tom looking in, on the floor out in front, 15 feet away and 8 feet up in the air, etc.

If you like the one you have, you'll like two of them. If I were you, I'd get a second 4038. If you were me, you'd wish you had at least two more 4038s...

Look at it this way: if you get the 2nd 4038 and for some reason become disenchanted, it will be an easy sale and you can use that to try the 4040.
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22nd April 2010
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GET A PAIR OF BOTH!

I've sold my Neumann U87 & TLM193 (no laughing on that last one), AND Blue Kiwi when I heard these mics. The 4040 through a Millennia & LA2a gets you what you want a U87 to be.... the 4040 LOVES opera singers & fingering picking steel string guitars have no better mate.

The 4038 is legendary! Drums ALL DAY, and classical guitar is SO natural with a Blumlein pair of these. Forget LDC's for Drums or Classical guitar.

So, GET BOTH! You can not live with out them!
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22nd April 2010
Old 22nd April 2010
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The odd thing about the 4038, which I noticed last night as I was listening to a triangle track, is that it didn't need a lick of compression or limiting to smooth it out. I eq-ed some of the ringing but that was it. Amazing thing!
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22nd April 2010
Old 22nd April 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanRock101 View Post
GET A PAIR OF BOTH!

I've sold my Neumann U87 & TLM193 (no laughing on that last one), AND Blue Kiwi when I heard these mics.
WOW. I can't imagine selling my u87. Do you mean that use the 4040 instead? The u87 and the 4038 have such a different character.
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