Anyone hear any of the C12 remakes? Wunder CM12/Tele Ela M12?

[Solunaris]

I'm interested in a pair of C12's but I was checking out these replicas and wondering if anyone has heard either of these mics. I talked to Mike at Wunder and he told me that he thinks that he has the capsule down slightly better than the Telefunken Ela M12. But I haven't heard either so, any opinons?

[Solunaris]

none ehh?

[T-fonk]

I think the C12 is an ok mic, but it's not worth it! For the same money, you can get better mics!

T

[Jorg]

I asked the same question a while ago and didnt get any answers. I think there are only a few guys out there who own (or even heard) those replicas!

[MixingStick]

Not to hijack your thread, but I am very interested in the Wunder "c12" and "c7" as well as the Soundelux e47 and elux251............I'd hate to spend $5000 for a mic that is just "OK".....

[MixingStick]

Originally Posted by T-fonk

I think the C12 is an ok mic, but it's not worth it! For the same money, you can get better mics!

T

LIKE WHAT????

[GYang]

Originally Posted by T-fonk

I think the C12 is an ok mic, but it's not worth it! For the same money, you can get better mics!

T

What do you wish to compare?

Good condition real C12 with equally good other vintage mics or clones?
Real C12 is high end league of its own and can hardly be compared to any top notch mic, vintage or new, as better or worse. Different - yes !

[Brad Lunde]

Are you looking for just a C12 replica
or a mic that fits the C12 application very closely?

C12's are most often used these days as distant mics on large sources like orchestra, choirs, bands, etc. They can be used on other things, but I think that's their prime app in today's market. Its a mic that lacks bass to many, but in a large room where many of these types of sources can be found, bass rumble can be a problem and the C12 sounds great!

Brauner VM1's fit the application closely, but more bass and not as "soft" a top end.
Soundelux ELUX251 in omni fits the application closely but more bass but not as soft a top end.
Vintage E LAM 251 in omni fits the application closely but more bass and may have a soft top end depending on condition.

Brad

[Solunaris]

Just something that sounds as spectacular on drum overheads and female vocal as the C12 I guess.

[Twisted Tones]

What kind of music are you talking about? With out knowing the answer to that...if I had that kind of scratch to spend on one mic for a variety of applications I would find a good U67. Whatever it is, it's a good idea to audition a few...especially with old stuff, but I've even heard some drastically different Soundeluxes of the same model.

Anyhow...might not be the right mic for you, but that's where'd I'd be looking.

Peace,
Dan

[Jules]

I had a plan back when I was buying mic's to get a C24 (a 2 capsule stereo C12)

I just couldn't get confident that I would find a good one for a good price here in the UK (none were to be found for sale here) .. so I went for a matched pair of M149's - hardly the same thing.. but they have been reliable.. and client pleasers at least..

But that was over 6 years ago and I didn't know anything about folks re making mikes or the boutique, non brand name options back then..

[warhead]

Ever thought about an AKG C12VR?

War

[squeegybug]

Jules -

Why frown/hide over the M 149? You've probably compared them to "boutique" mics, what do you think?

FWIW, I hunted through several nice mics like E47, E49, ifet7, U195, Phantom C, M930, CE, CS-1. When I tried the M149 I stopped there and kept it, it was just what I was looking for.

No help to the C12 question...

Steve

[ahhproductions]

I've been using both the C12 and U47 Wunder clones regularly for about a year and a half now. I've been very happy with them on most sources. I mainly use the C12's as drum overheads, and piano stereo pair. Actually I can't imagine tracking without them! That said... I haven't really loved the C12's on vocals. If I remember correctly, they were a bit too sibilant for my taste. I haven't tried in a while though, so who knows what I'd think now, or how one would be on a different voice. I'm not sure if you're interested in using the C12's for vocals, my guess is you are, but 9 times out of 10 I choose an original Telefunken ELAM 250, or a Blue Bottle with the B6 or B0 capsule when doing a mic shootout. PM me and I'll point you to a recent release that I used these mics on.

Adam

[Wunderkap]

I just wanted to chime in from a technical standpoint. Arrogantbastard (no offence) I believe is referring to the CM12H or a CM12 with the "H" (historic) capsule which is like our "Special Reserve" capsule.

The nose is stunning. It has style and elegance in abundance, with an exotic roasted cashew nut and dark fruit character, laid over some new oak. A fabulous palate, surprisingly approachable, but I think this is because it is so elegant and balanced. There are rich, rounded, dark fruits, with mineral notes. Ripe, supple tannins underpin it all. For me, this is undoubtedly Brilliant. 18.5+/20

Reading how someone describes a mic reads is like the tasting notes above. It's described in insane detail but I have NOT tasted it myself. If you are like me, you got to hear it for yourself to fully comprehend how it sounds, retrospectively.

I actually have gone one step further by using a mic exclusively on certain instruments or a certain voice for months. And then go on to another model mic for a long period etc... Then you can form a retrospective opinion after you fully exhausted every approach. I am sure that most of you all have done something like this. Of course some mics are in different ballparks, like a U67 compared to a ribbon. But in condensers, there are subtle differences at first that take hearing it retrospectively in several mixes, then there is an obvious, huge difference.

From a recent applications in the field standpoint, Pierre Marchand who produces Sarah McLachlan just purchased a CM12 (H capsule) last week and after recording for a week with it decided to purchase another today to match it. I know he tried it on vocals, piano and wants them for overheads also. On the other end of the spectrum, the Strokes just purchased a standard CM12 this week to go along with their 8x PEQ1's. I actually cant wait to hear what they record with it.

[HudHudson]

Originally Posted by Wunderkap

The nose is stunning. It has style and elegance in abundance, with an exotic roasted cashew nut and dark fruit character, laid over some new oak. A fabulous palate, surprisingly approachable, but I think this is because it is so elegant and balanced. There are rich, rounded, dark fruits, with mineral notes. Ripe, supple tannins underpin it all. For me, this is undoubtedly Brilliant. 18.5+/20

Or as Robin Williams once said, "Flaccid, yet bland." But I don't think he was describing a microphone.

Keep knocking 'em out of the park, Mike!

Hud

[True North]

We tested out a Telefunken USA C12 in a Blind Listening test Mic Shootout on over 20 mics. I personally did not like the C12 on M&F Vox and it did not make the top 3 or even the honorable mention list. I am not comparing it to a Vintage C12 beceause I have never had a chance to compare the two.

Is there any reason why you wanted a C12 or is this a mic that you have a heard a lot about and wanted to gather more information? For Vocals I would definitely recommend that you do your own listening tests with a few different mics. I would suggest that you at least try; Soudelux Elux251, Charter Oak SA538, Rode Classic II, Neumann M149 & 147, Rode K2, Telefunken USA ELAM251

Good Luck!

[castle]

Is there a reason no-one has mentioned the Korby KAT 4, which gives you a C12 capsule as well as a U47, 251 and U67?

[Steamy Williams]

I recently sold my Neumann M149. I'm interested in the Wunder CM12, but it costs a few hundred more than a Korby KAT 1 here in the UK, which in turn is more than than the average price of a real U67. I intend to demo a Korby with all the capsules alongside a vintage U67 and AKG C12A that I can get hold of as soon as I get my studio in order. If there's a Wunder CM12 available to demo in the UK when the time comes, I'll try to check that out as well. Could be month or more before I get round to doing it, but I'll be sure to post my thoughts once I do.

[GYang]

Originally Posted by castle

Is there a reason no-one has mentioned the Korby KAT 4, which gives you a C12 capsule as well as a U47, 251 and U67?

Frankly speaking, due to excellent results I have with Korby's 251, 47 and 67 heads, I rarely use C12. I agree that there are purposes when C12 shines and in my work such purposes are still very rare.
But never regreted purchase of all 4 heads.

GYang

[Jules]

Originally Posted by squeegybug

Jules -

Why frown/hide over the M 149? You've probably compared them to "boutique" mics, what do you think?

FWIW, I hunted through several nice mics like E47, E49, ifet7, U195, Phantom C, M930, CE, CS-1. When I tried the M149 I stopped there and kept it, it was just what I was looking for.

No help to the C12 question...

Steve

Despite getting a killer deal on my pair of (factory matched ) M149's I am convinced I could have bought a pair of more stunning mic's for the money... by going down the boutique / small company mic route.. and no I have never tried ANY of them.. its just a gut gearslut feeling I have... honey dripping top end to die for .. that's my daydream / living hell - whatever... I would be more than happy to be wrong about that and your post lifts my weary spirits..

[squeegybug]

Originally Posted by Jules

Despite getting a killer deal on my pair of (factory matched ) M149's I am convinced I could have bought a pair of more stunning mic's for the money... by going down the boutique / small company mic route.. and no I have never tried ANY of them.. its just a gut gearslut feeling I have... honey dripping top end to die for .. that's my daydream / living hell - whatever... I would be more than happy to be wrong about that and your post lifts my weary spirits..

Ahh, "grass is always greener" syndrome
Well my friend, I guess we all work as we can, learning along the way. I'm sure you've considered the ADC, preamp, cables, DAC, monitors, as part of that honey-dripping equation? I've been lied to before by some of that stuff, the mic never had a chance of telling all it knew. With that in mind, I've been very happy with the M149, especially in direct comparison to a few of those other exotic mics. And the build quality/service options on some... were a little disappointing IMO, compared to Neumann. BTW, nice to read that Al Schmitt likes his M149s too!

Steve

[Solunaris]

Yeah, since I used to work at guitar center, I was able to buy a pair of Gefell UM900's below cost. So far they have been good to me, great to me, amazing to me! But there is a time and a place for a brighter mic. I have heard the C12 many a time on drum overheads and a few female and male vocals and it all sounded really good to me. I would like to try the telefunken usa ELAM251 as well and maybe the ELUX251. I think a pair of those 251s or C12s on overheads with the gefell UM900's as room mics would be an insane combo.

[True North]

Originally Posted by castle

Is there a reason no-one has mentioned the Korby KAT 4, which gives you a C12 capsule as well as a U47, 251 and U67?

The KAT4 was part of our blind listening test and it was not the best sounding of the 4 capsules. The U67 sounded really quite nice and while it did not make the top vocal list it sounded spectacular on acoustic. We tested 3, 251 copies/emulations (whatever) and the Korby 251 scored the weakest of the three. This was based on feedback from about 6 different people on blind listening tests.

[True North]

Originally Posted by Jules

Despite getting a killer deal on my pair of (factory matched ) M149's I am convinced I could have bought a pair of more stunning mic's for the money... by going down the boutique / small company mic route.. and no I have never tried ANY of them.. its just a gut gearslut feeling I have... honey dripping top end to die for .. that's my daydream / living hell - whatever... I would be more than happy to be wrong about that and your post lifts my weary spirits..

Jules, you should check out the Charter Oaks (SA538), they were really spectacular sounding mics. Boutique, hand made mics without the boutique price.

The M149's fared very well against most of the boutique mics we tested, I definitely wouldn't feel too bad.