ADL600 Tube Preamp

[drummin4christ]

Hey guys. This pre has been out for a few weeks and I was wondering what the people who have one thinks about it. I have one but have not had a chance to really use it yet. I have a drum session starting Monday and would love some tips or tricks that people have found.
I don't want this to be a bash Presonus thread, so please, I would like to only hear from people who have the pre and are using it.
Thanks

[pixelhead]

I had a brand new one dropped off here for an audition and it DOA out of the box. Waiting for another one.

[warhead]

I have only played with one for a short while but it sure is promising! More soon, I'm going to try and go deep on it over the weekend. I like the fact that it has line level inputs also.

We are making a demo unit available as well.

War

[69 Sound]

I've had mine for a couple of weeks now and I have to say I like it.

My first impression was that it's cleaner then I was expecting it to be. (Not that this is a bad thing)

I haven't really had the chance to try it out on alot of different sources as I'm in the process of making some changes to my setup.

So far my impressions are that on acoustic guitar it sounds full and detailed, but was a little lacking in the low mids. This might work out well within the context of a full mix.

On electric guitar is just simply sounded HUGE!!! I was using a les paul custom with seth lovers through a crate vintage club 30 with NOS tubes. Mic'd about 12" out with a baby bottle.

I also spoke with Rick over at Presonus and Anthony suggested trying a 12AX7 instead of the 12AT7 in the final driver stage for adding a little more character and thickening up the mids.

Personally my .02 is I think Presonus has a winner on it's hands if people can get past the name on the front panel.

Regards,

Chris

[Revelation]

I am also interested in this thing. I heard it in a noise AES how, and yes the pre seem to be pretty clean. I am looking for a tube pre that will gently smooth my solid state mic's at a affordable price, and I think this just might be it for me. I assume you can thicken the sound a little by pushing the gain up, no? It has a impedence control as well. The unit is approx $300 cheaper than the Pendulum dual mic pre. I really love the Manley pre's but my taste has changed for a little cleaner sound over the Manley but still tube. The Slam is what I really want, but I don't have the cash for it or the new T&T which gives only one Slam pre with a solid state pre as well which is at $3,000.

[Musiclab]

I've had one now for around a month, I know I promised to post some stuff but it's been real busy as of late here. The more I use this thing the more I like it. I started fooling around with the impedance switching which really brings out the best in each mic. This box is VERY fat sounding. I need to wire up the line in's and try inserting into my consoles 2 buss and see if thats nice.

[69 Sound]

Originally Posted by Revelation

I assume you can thicken the sound a little by pushing the gain up, no?

It actually tends to stay pretty clean even when you hit the front end hard.

Although messing with the impedance setting can be used to great effect.

Anthony's suggestion for adding more colour was to try some different 12AX7's in place of the 12AT7. He did mention though that this would probably raise the noise floor slighty but I haven't gotten around to doing this yet. I also have a couple Mullard 12AT7's that I am going to try in there.

Regards,

Chris

[warhead]

Just got home from a local studio, checking out this ADL600 preamp (and a lot of other stuff). As a reference we shot it out against the Avalon 737SP. On the "apples to oranges" side of things we threw in the Amek Angela console pres as well. These are my initial impressions anyhow:

The ADL600 is indeed "fat". The first bit of comparisons we did was bass guitar in the DI. The ADL600 gave us low end like there is no tomorrow, big and smooth whereas the Avalon by comparison was more mid-focused. Pop and slap type stuff the ADL gave a punchy sound that was clean for the most part (it's really a clean preamp for the most part) with good definition top to bottom. There was no comparison here, the ADL rocks for DI use. The Amek preamps actually scored closer to the ADL which is of course an all tube design but still in that clean category.

As a microphone preamp we found the ADL to be an extremely all purpose performer period. For $2k one would typically expect this! We were able to check it out on voice and guitar, and it really is clean. If you're looking for a tube preamp that can be pushed into audible distortion do NOT look at the ADL600 unless you're bringing your own attenuation after the output (like an ATTY etc). The +/-10dB output pot allows fine tuning but not so much of a cut that you could really push this thing for fuzz. The preamp remains clean-ish even when pushed, we did not experiment with attenuating the gain after the unit, so I am only commenting on what the unit can acheive on its own as far as pushing it.

Again the fat low end on this thing gives a big image to vocals etc. It is clean with a subtle sheen (most likely from the honkin Reichenbach made ADL transformers) and there was no sign that it would be anything but useful on all sources. There is a slight softness to the unit, very slight but a small smoothing effect anyhow.

The impedence selection is a great feature, but we were using a condensor mic with it which doesn't matter as much. I'll have to check it out more with dynamics and ribbons. We also didn't take time to run anything line level through it.

This unit is well built and beautiful and made in Baton Rouge, a nice simple design that is quiet and clean-ish with subtle vibe. The dual LED / VU metering is kind of strange but what the hell. It needs at least 5 minutes or so before it's good and warmed up, for the first few minutes we thought the ADL was kind of dark and then it just opened right up once things were warm.

War

[Musiclab]

Originally Posted by warhead

The impedence selection is a great feature, but we were using a condensor mic with it which doesn't matter as much. I'll have to check it out more with dynamics and ribbons. We also didn't take time to run anything line level through it.

War

You need to check out the impedance selection again. Probably by recording the same
mic and changing the impedance. The 300 ohms setting really opened up a KM184 which is certainly a condenser. If you own this box you absolutely should take time out to see what this option can do.

[warhead]

We were using a Lawson L47, I certainly plan on spending more time with the unit in the coming days in my own place.

War

[Revelation]

I don't know I found a different sound when I put the input on 35 and cracked the +-10dB output to the right compared to putting up the main knob to 50 and the +-10 db knob to the left. By pushing the 2nd knob changed the character giving a little more tube sound while having it to the left gave more of a clearer tone. For those who have it, tell me if you found the same difference?

[Circulogi]

ADL600 -

Ok, I tried one of these today. I got it out of the box and heard a rattle inside the unit. I figure its a screw someone forgot to take out, its happened before. So I take the top off the unit, and its this square piece of plastic. I looked around to see where it went and found it. Its the back off of the plastic right trim pot. Its this cheesy little black pastic pot. This little piece of plastic is holding all the contacts together so if you push the pot back you can make the connection. Ok, so I try another one. I didn't hear any rattling on it so I plugged it in and fired it up. The right channel doesn't work so I fiddle with the right trim pot to see what happens. If I hold it in slightly it makes the connection. The little plastic backing must have fallen off of this one too. Thats a crappy design. They could use some nice metal enlosed pots and never have this problem. I held the trim pot so I could at least listen to the unit. It sounds great! Its a shame about the cheap trim pots though. Because of them every unit will have this problem IMO and it should be fixed. Presonus, use good quality trim pots!

[drummin4christ]

Originally Posted by Circulogi

ADL600 -

Ok, I tried one of these today. I got it out of the box and heard a rattle inside the unit. I figure its a screw someone forgot to take out, its happened before. So I take the top off the unit, and its this square piece of plastic. I looked around to see where it went and found it. Its the back off of the plastic right trim pot. Its this cheesy little black pastic pot. This little piece of plastic is holding all the contacts together so if you push the pot back you can make the connection. Ok, so I try another one. I didn't hear any rattling on it so I plugged it in and fired it up. The right channel doesn't work so I fiddle with the right trim pot to see what happens. If I hold it in slightly it makes the connection. The little plastic backing must have fallen off of this one too. Thats a crappy design. They could use some nice metal enlosed pots and never have this problem. I held the trim pot so I could at least listen to the unit. It sounds great! Its a shame about the cheap trim pots though. Because of them every unit will have this problem IMO and it should be fixed. Presonus, use good quality trim pots!

This problem was identified by Presonus and has now been fixed. They replaced the pots with real nice metal pots and changed the packaging that they ship the unit in. This same problem happened to me with two units, but now that I have the new version, all I can say is this sucker rocks!!
I'm working on a project for a female singer/songwriter and have used the ADL on half the instruments and an API 3124+ on the other. I have been totally blown away by the sound and just as warhead said, the bottom end is so smooth, detailed, and big.

[69 Sound]

Just curious... Is this an issue with all early units?

Mine has had no problems. But I'd prefer to get it taken care of while it's still in warranty if it might become a problem later on down the line. A bit of preventative maintenance if you will.

[Circulogi]

Good to know on the pots. If you take off the top of the unit ( 10 screws or so ) you can see the trim pots are encased in black plastic. If they are metal and not plastic you should be ok.

Everything else seems really rugged. I really liked the sound, from what I heard of it. I'm glad they fixed it! I guess everyone is at NAMM or I could have talked to someone about it.

[drummin4christ]

Originally Posted by 69 Sound

Just curious... Is this an issue with all early units?

Mine has had no problems. But I'd prefer to get it taken care of while it's still in warranty if it might become a problem later on down the line. A bit of preventative maintenance if you will.

The plastic pots work just as good as the metal pots, they just had a hard time surviving shipping. If your unit from the first and second generation is working fine, then your good to go. Fedex and UPS are really rough on packages.

[69 Sound]

Originally Posted by drummin4christ

The plastic pots work just as good as the metal pots, they just had a hard time surviving shipping. If your unit from the first and second generation is working fine, then your good to go. Fedex and UPS are really rough on packages.

Ain't that the truth!!! I believe mine is a first generation and so far so good, so I think I'll leave well enough alone. No need to needlessly subject it to the beating it'd get being shipped back to Presonus.

On a side note:

I really surprised more people aren't talking about this pre. I've yet to hear of anyone who hasn't thought it sounded great. I think both Presonus and Anthony deserve a big up on this one.

[WidgetNinja]

Originally Posted by 69 Sound

I really surprised more people aren't talking about this pre. I've yet to hear of anyone who hasn't thought it sounded great. I think both Presonus and Anthony deserve a big up on this one.

One word: Presonus

They have prosumer rep. Anthony doesn't. People here didn't know who was behind it and were dismissing it out of hand.

They should have called it the "Presonus Demaria600".

[whitepapagold]

Originally Posted by WidgetNinja

One word: Presonus

They have prosumer rep. Anthony doesn't. People here didn't know who was behind it and were dismissing it out of hand.

They should have called it the "Presonus Demaria600".

Still made by presonus. Interesting the pots falling apart doesn't seem to bother anyone. If I spend 2 grand on a brand new pre that is being touted as the presonus flagship, and it rattles cause the thing is falling apart before I ever turn it on, ID BE REALLY PISSED. If I found out it happened to many, MANY units in the first run ID BE REALLY REALLY REALLY PISSED. Plus it goes to show there are potentially other quality/pricepoint issues- you dont cut one corner, you cut as many as you can. It may sound great but aren't there other great pres that come new without parts falling off TO THE LEVEL THE MANUFACTURER HAS TO RECONSIDER THEIR BUILD/PARTS? And dont you think R&D at presonus knew there was a potential problem. Plastic isn't the first choice for quality. I guess I expect more for my money. I have an GML 8302(as my main high end pre) and it doesn't rattle OR fall apart, but then again I have more faith in George than presonus (and yes, its a little more expensive). One last question, do you think Anthony would endorse plastic pots on a high end pre? Do you think it concerned him his name is involved with a box that fell apart before it got to the consumer? Its always about the money.

[cdkelly]

Originally Posted by whitepapagold

Still made by presonus. Interesting the pots falling apart doesn't seem to bother anyone. If I spend 2 grand on a brand new pre that is being touted as the presonus flagship, and it rattles cause the thing is falling apart before I ever turn it on, ID BE REALLY PISSED. If I found out it happened to many, MANY units in the first run ID BE REALLY REALLY REALLY PISSED. Plus it goes to show there are potentially other quality/pricepoint issues- you dont cut one corner, you cut as many as you can. It may sound great but aren't there other great pres that come new without parts falling off TO THE LEVEL THE MANUFACTURER HAS TO RECONSIDER THEIR BUILD/PARTS? And dont you think R&D at presonus knew there was a potential problem. Plastic isn't the first choice for quality. I guess I expect more for my money. I have an GML 8302(as my main high end pre) and it doesn't rattle OR fall apart, but then again I have more faith in George than presonus (and yes, its a little more expensive). One last question, do you think Anthony would endorse plastic pots on a high end pre? Do you think it concerned him his name is involved with a box that fell apart before it got to the consumer? Its always about the money.

Hi White,

I'll have to make this brief due to all the busy-ness of NAMM this week, but this definitely deserves some response and correction, with respect. I'm afraid you're not entirely correct of these assumptions and have jumped to some rather negative conclusions. Please allow me to explain....

1.) All of the switches and pots on the ADL face were and still are made by Vishay, which IS a high-end company and they know what they are doing. : ) Same company used by Avalon and many others. They are not cheap pots, they are rather pricey in fact. As with any design, even if it is a spare-no-expense design, one is still subject to the availability of parts which happen to exist for any given application. If there were an all-steel trim pot available that fit our exact needs, then obviously we'd have picked it. If we spent $8 on just each knob alone (which we did!), then I can assure you that we wouldn't be too concerned about a few cents difference on one high end pot vs. another. The Trim control is the only actual pot on the whole unit, everything else is a switch. It's a high quality conductive-plastic Vishay pot that contains both metal and plastic parts, as they all do. The problem was that the base of the pot (below the metal shaft) where the hex nut attaches it to the face was made of a hard plastic. Normally, this would be no big deal, except that the ADL is massive and that the rest of the ADL is hard metal. The pot had a tolerance of about 30lbs; unfortunately the shipping weight of the ADL is closer to 40lbs, coupled with the abuse that awkward and larger packages often suffer at the hands of any shipping service. This caused it to break, internally. This is why the Trim pot would be out on some of the first batch and there would be a small piece of plastic loose inside (a part of the trim pot). And as was mentioned by someone above, if your unit survived initial delivery then you are OK.

2.) Yes, Anthony DeMaria was present at our facility for the launch of this product, yes it did and does meet his standards. No, 'R&D' (meaning our engineering dept.) was not aware about the shipping stress issue on that one component because you can betatest prototype units forever but you'll never see something like that come up until you actually start shipping hundreds of production-run units in the exact manner and packaging that they ship. As soon as they started shipping, we did see this and we acted accordingly. We worked with Vishay to obtain a new pot that had an all-steel shaft and base. Vishay came up with a new pot that has a 94lbs pressure-tolerance but retains all the articulation and accuracy that the first one did. We are very happy with the fix, and it was addressed very early on. And incidentally, the failure rate of these pots on the first run of units was about 10 percent, and it's been corrected for some time now.

I hope this clarifies the issue and hope also that this type of post doesn't scare people away from a fantastic product without reason. I own one of these units myself, and I can tell you.... wow... I'm lovin' it! : ) I just did an album in December with this thing and I feel almost guilty for the number of times we went back and used that pre again and again and again on subsequent tracks... It didn't seem to have any negative cumulative effects, and if I can't get enough of a good thing I may even be putting it on 2bus for final mix or in mastering. : )

Chad Kelly
PreSonus Audio

[BryanGamet]

really would like to check these out

[whitepapagold]

Great response. I understand what you are saying but I must still say, I have never had problems of that nature with any other gear other than Korg. And Korg, though great instruments, are complete crap manufacture wise. I understand presonus' need for damage control, but I stand by my comments. If you are solving the problem great, but to say you couldn't possibly forsee the problem is just not 100% true. The testing required may have not been cost effective but it could have been realized. I understand engineers can NEVER forsee every problem that arises but ....... Engineering for profit (which you are a company who sells goods) has to be a cross between quality and cost efficiency- not just quality. I do not claim to be an electrical engineer but my brother is. He maintains/modifys a particle counter for the EPA and has 3 degrees-to give you where Im getting my info from. I just asked him and sorry but it definitely has cost and production time frame implications . I do not work for presonus so I wouldn't claim to know what those were. But release dates and beta testing can only go on for so long before they cut into cost effectiveness. Sounds like presonus did a good job of acknowledging the problem and resolving it, sadly I still think on gear of this level and cost, it shouldn't happen. And just to be clear, I am not attacking the sound. Appreciate the response though. And Ill be totally honest, I looked at this thread because Im looking for a new stereo pre. I like the GTQ2 but am looking at everything before I decide. This issue has definitely removed the 600 from my potential line up but Im not buying this month so maybe rave reviews will change my mind. After dealing with korg though, Ive heard this song and dance before. Ive watched 3 tritons and a trinity go to crap, and they stood by their products too. Presonus isn't korg but preamps shouldn't have pieces rolling around inside-unless its a really cool effect!
Regards
Joseph

[whitepapagold]

And.....
Understand Im a little harsh because I haven't been a presonus fan with the pieces I used in the past. This was supposed to be the unit that steps presonus up out of prosumer. When you see things like this, its hard not to be 110% skeptical.
And again, I haven't heard anyone say it sounds bad-i.e. why Im reading this thread!
Take care
Joseph

[cdkelly]

Hi Joseph,

I agree with you... it shouldn't have happened, shouldn't have been an unknown weakness in the first run of units... I wouldn't venture to guess whether we absolutely couldn't have forseen it or not, I just know (and please do believe me) that we didn't... but once we understood what was happening it was corrected very fast, as fast as Vishay could work up a new potentiometer for us. In fact, we froze shipment of the product until the new pots came in. So I think we did right on that one.... It's fixed now and was fixed early on, to me that's what matters most. I would hope that a non-issue like that wouldn't keep you from trying out the unit. It definitely deserves a listen. We also had another one of our suppliers develop a new tube-clip-equipped ceremic tube socket for us early on after the first run of units as well. I was personally involved in that one, and very happy to make a little contribution to make a great product even greater... The new sockets not only hold a tighter grip on the pins of the tube (for superior connection) but have a brass clip that keeps the tube from being able to come loose. This was never an issue for us before, but as I said, the ADL is massive and it is heavy. A unit that big is somewhat uncharted territory for us and unexpected things will happen. The M80 was up until now our largest and flagship pre, and the ADL weighs in at about 4x it's weight and more than twice it's depth. Believe me, all the things you mentioned about the company name being more centered with the prosumer market and so forth... are true and are things we know all too well, so we surely wouldn't intentionally sabotage our first entry into a new market... we wouldn't, and didn't. : )

I've been working in audio a good while now; and to me, how people react to a problem is almost as important or more important than the problem itself.... does the company make it right.... does the company ignore it and hope it will go away.... because there will always be problems with anything, it's rather inevitable. My new $33,000 SUV has given me more problems than any cheaper used vehicle I've ever owned.... but they've taken care of it so far... and that kinda to me is the real litmus test. It's funny you mentioned Korg, they actually just fixed my Triton for me. : ) I had a broken power switch and several keys had gone out, but granted that was the result of about 4+ years of road abuse and not their fault by any means. Works like new again now. : )

Chad

[thenoodle]

...."And Korg, though great instruments, are complete crap manufacture wise....".

Kinda amazing that a company with such horrible manufacturing standards can remain in business 30-40 years huh?

I still have my original Korg T3 and 01wfd that I bought back in the 80's and they're both still working great. If you've actually had 3 Tritons and a Trinity fall apart, I look at these older units of mine that are in great shape and think, if I were Korg, I wouldn't WANT you as a customer.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I'll chime in my bit about Presonus.

They sent an adl600 to me a few months ago based on Rick Nagvi having read something I wrote here on the forum. Almost out of the blue. Which I thought was just great. And with all due respect, I don't see George, Rupert, Tristan or any of those guys combing forums and discussing their products first hand with users and potential buyers. And folks, Presonus ain't a small company.

To be truthful, the first unit that arrived was dead, no doubt due to the orginal one-layer shipping box. I called Presonus and they Fed Ex'd out another one right away. It was in the new double-layer box, but one channel didn't work. I called them again and they were going to Fed Ex out a third unit for me, but this was all just before the holidays and I didn't have much time, so I asked them to not send a third unit.

Now, at this stage, what's easier? For me to say Presonus is garbage? Or perhaps... it makes sense to have a third go....to try this preamp when I can and maybe find out that it's just what I've been looking for.

My point is, The adl600 is making it into the hands of lots of folks who are absolutely loving it. And when the inevitable problems have cropped up, which is to be expected for any new product, these guys at Presonus have been some of the nicest, outgoing folks I have EVER dealt with at ANY company. They have been willing to go to almost any lengths to get defective units replaced ASAP.

I'm heading over to the Presonus NAMM booth tomorrow to meet these guys face to face for the first time. Mostly to thank them for their great service ethics.

Rather than blast Presonus, I think more of you folks should be focusing on what they're doing right. Which is a lot.

[Tousana]

Originally Posted by cdkelly

Hi Joseph,

I agree with you... it shouldn't have happened, shouldn't have been an unknown weakness in the first run of units... I wouldn't venture to guess whether we absolutely couldn't have forseen it or not, I just know (and please do believe me) that we didn't... but once we understood what was happening it was corrected very fast, as fast as Vishay could work up a new potentiometer for us.

Chad

I would agree with Chad on that point. I haven't tried the 600 and have also always thought of Prosonus in a prosumer way as well, but when I saw this pre it got my intrest going and I can't wait to try it out. I think the fact that things are being taken care of quickly speaks well of the company. And we must rember that sh*t happens, but it's how it's taken care of in the end that matters. thumbsup

[cdkelly]

Originally Posted by Tousana

I would agree with Chad on that point. I haven't tried the 600 and have also always thought of Prosonus in a prosumer way as well, but when I saw this pre it got my intrest going and I can't wait to try it out. I think the fact that things are being taken care of quickly speaks well of the company. And we must rember that sh*t happens, but it's how it's taken care of in the end that matters. thumbsup

Thanks. : ) And thanks to Noodle also for the good words. : )

BTW, another thing that was done recently was to completely remake the packaging for the ADL to a firmer foam, a new box, and an all new outer box with thick foam corner pieces inside of it that the large inner ADL box sits inside of. We went to great lengths to make it very hard for this thing to get abused in shipping. Another plus is it will look real impressive when you take delivery of this thing... it will almost look like you're receiving a major appliance. haha

Chad
PreSonus

[thenoodle]

Ok Chad, you're not at the show! But I did speak with Rick. Great guy. And the booth is pretty cool, great location. Checked out that little motorized fader thingy being demoed by (Kevin?), but I couldn't get real close because there were always lots of people around it.

[drummin4christ]

Originally Posted by thenoodle

Ok Chad, you're not at the show! But I did speak with Rick. Great guy. And the booth is pretty cool, great location. Checked out that little motorized fader thingy being demoed by (Kevin?), but I couldn't get real close because there were always lots of people around it.

Rick is awesome. Great guy that aways makes time for you and treats you like your "Chuck Ainlay."

[Musiclab]

Originally Posted by drummin4christ

Rick is awesome. Great guy that aways makes time for you and treats you like your "Chuck Ainlay."

I've been dealing with Rick for years, he's a very nice guy.