what's the BEST 88 key MIDI controller out there?

[quantz]

hi,

i'm in need of a very versatile, full-featured, 88 key MIDI controller ( with extensive depth and scope in terms of its MIDI control capabitlities).

which is the BEST out there currently with really great fully-weighted, hammer-action, 'real' piano feel?

for $500 the m-Audio Keystation Pro 88 looked interesting, but i heard there were quality control issues with it, and that the action wasn't that good. i'll spend whatever it takes.

many thanks,
simon

[Bob Ross]

Originally Posted by quantz

which is the BEST out there currently with really great fully-weighted, hammer-action, 'real' piano feel?

A Steinway Model D with the Buchla/Moog infrared Piano Bar.

[ozraves]

I like the keyboard on the Roland Fantom X8. I don't know if they offer a keyboard/MIDI controller with the same 88 keys as in the X8.

[Bishbashbosh]

Hey.... I've just been through this too...

Isn't it strange that 10 years ago there were loads of top notch master controllers out there (Roland A-80, Yamaha KX-88, Akai MX-76 etc....) and now, when more and more people are using soft synths and really NEED one good quality master controller there's not much out there that's built particularly well!!

The models I checked out were:

Oberheim (massive price drop in the UK - this is because they are made from bits of old washing machines, and WHEN they go wrong it'll take months to get fixed)

Fatar (not convinced by the build quality to be honest)

M-Audio (probably the best spec..... didn't really like the action, but tonnes of knobs)

Yamaha (S-90 has a great action, but you're paying a lot for sounds which I don't need)

Roland (Fantom and RD-700 - paying a lot for sounds again!)

I ended up buying a used Roland A-90 which rules! But it is bizarre that none of the big manufacturers make a QUALITY piece of gear anymore..

[cl516]

doepfer has some serious looking controllers...
i sure want one of those...

[siloo]

I've owned a Roland A-90EX for about seven years now, and it's the best I've seen out there. I had considered selling it, but there is really no other controllers out there that can touch it in terms of "controlling" MIDI systems. Not to mention the action is GREAT and mine has the built in sound card, which is worth for the Wurly preset alone.

Might try looking for a used one (or offereing me stupid money to get rid of mine...)



Jonathon A. Willis
River Wind Productions
Franklin, TN

[The MPCist]

Originally Posted by ozraves

I like the keyboard on the Roland Fantom X8. I don't know if they offer a keyboard/MIDI controller with the same 88 keys as in the X8.

Me too, Fantom X8. Great touch and feel for me. But another contender is the P250....

[HDGuru]

I love the weighted action on my Triton Extreme 88.

[steins]

Originally Posted by quantz

hi,

i'm in need of a very versatile, full-featured, 88 key MIDI controller ( with extensive depth and scope in terms of its MIDI control capabitlities).

which is the BEST out there currently with really great fully-weighted, hammer-action, 'real' piano feel?

for $500 the m-Audio Keystation Pro 88 looked interesting, but i heard there were quality control issues with it, and that the action wasn't that good. i'll spend whatever it takes.

many thanks,
simon

The best is the one with an action that feels good to you. Keyboard action is a personal thing. Try them! Take a look at some keyboard forums, and you will find that there is as many options on "the best action" as there are opinions on "the best Neve-clone" on this forum.

Stein Tore

[gsharp]

Yamaha P200. Discontinued but they pop up on eBay for about $1K every now and then.

[MMinton82]

ive got a p200 and to me at least its the best real piano feel out there, i was going to buy a triton but hated the action of it especially for piano, its not to bad for synths and stuff. so i got the triton rack and a p200. But nothing comes close in my opinion to the p200 all though there are probobly some more expensive things out there i havent played around with. But for a 1kish on ebay its a good thing. the piano sound it really great to, but all the other sounds kind of suck. my 2 cents


mike

[gsharp]

Originally Posted by MMinton82

ive got a p200 and to me at least its the best real piano feel out there, i was going to buy a triton but hated the action of it especially for piano, its not to bad for synths and stuff. so i got the triton rack and a p200. But nothing comes close in my opinion to the p200 all though there are probobly some more expensive things out there i havent played around with. But for a 1kish on ebay its a good thing. the piano sound it really great to, but all the other sounds kind of suck. my 2 cents


mike

Yup. Action is top notch. The Piano 1 sound is a really nice C7 sample. Sounds great in the mix on pop and country stuff. You're right, the rest of the sounds are total cheeseball.

[jonnyclueless]

The Yamaha P250. Or if you want more controller style features (and not just great action) then the S90.

The Roland A90 I don't even consider to be weighted. It's got great controller features, but the action is probably the worst ever if you are looking for realism.

The Roland RD700 Has reeeallly good action, on the level of the P250. One of the cool features of these boards is that the action at the top is lighter at te top than the bottom, much like on a real piano. I personally feel that teh Yamaha sounds better, but as far as action goes, you can't go wrong with either.

For the most part I dislike Maudio keyboards, but I did play one which had some decent weighted action, I just can't remember the model. I assume it must have been their flagship one.

unfortunately there isn't much out there in the controllers area. Todays market is focused on cheap rather than quality.

[Gideon]

Another vote for the Fantom X8. I think it's worth the money (just be sure to turn off the built-in effects ).

[enharmonic]

Originally Posted by quantz

hi,

i'm in need of a very versatile, full-featured, 88 key MIDI controller ( with extensive depth and scope in terms of its MIDI control capabitlities).

which is the BEST out there currently with really great fully-weighted, hammer-action, 'real' piano feel?

for $500 the m-Audio Keystation Pro 88 looked interesting, but i heard there were quality control issues with it, and that the action wasn't that good. i'll spend whatever it takes.

many thanks,
simon

I have that board. It's not bad, but M-Audio's customer service blows. I've contacted them with questions a few times and I get no response. I called them regarding one of their products to get a release date (since they advertised it as shipping in their promo e-mail) and two reps didn't even know what I was talking about.

I won't be giving M-Audio any more of my money. I don't care how cool the trigger finger looks. Until they can pull their head out of their ass on the support side, they're useless to me.

[enharmonic]

Originally Posted by Bob Ross

A Steinway Model D with the Buchla/Moog infrared Piano Bar.

That's without a doubt the sluttiest answer yet

[synthdogg]

If you're looking in the Yamaha P200, P250 range...check out the Kawai stuff while you're at it. Nothing against the Yamahas...it's just a different high quality flavor. I have a Kawai MP9500, and I understand they're just in the process of releasing the new model (MP8?). The action is excellent, the keys are wooden and that really helps give it a realistic feel. The action is also heavier, which is neither good nor bad, just a heads up depending on your taste. Good assortment of controller functions (certainly nothing like the M-Audio, though) and my personal favorite digital piano sound on the market (which isn't saying much since I'm not a huge fan of digitals.....I'll go for that Steinway also...)

[Syki]

Fantom X8 is great but if you can find an older Roland xv88 you'll be in" bizz" Cuzz!

[7rojo7]

S90 Yomama
I don't mind the sounds and you can program it to go out on the road and do the MK role if you want, the wurly on the S90 is it!
I payed 1890 in euros and I'm not crying even though there are other choices. If you're inclined to you can do a rave up piano bar gig with this unit.
The Yomama feel on the keyboard is the best. They might make a stripped down version of their deck but watch out for the aftertouch option, the S08 didn't have it.

[Jan Folkson]

Nothing feels better to me than the old KX88 or A80, they both pop up on ebay. Out of what's available today the P250 is probably the best feeling and great sounding to boot.

HTH.

[kbshearer]

Has anybody tried the CME stuff yet? They make midi/USB controllers in every size, including "hammer action" 88 key. They're dirt cheap, and have gotten some good reviews. I just haven't been able to find one locally to play with.

BTW, I tried the M-Audio 88 key and thought it was like walking through mud.

Kirt

[fastonkeys]

Hello everyone,

The announcement of the MP8-II was met with great curiosity on my part, and prompted me to go out and try it to compare against my Kawai MP8. I've been very happy with the MP8, having upgraded to it from a Yamaha P250. I also own a Steinway concert grand so I'm one of those that is constantly seeking the most authentic piano feel for my main controller (in the studio).

First, I have nothing but good things to say about the Yamaha P250, or what's evolved from that line. I opted for the MP8, however, because I really prefer the heavier feel, and to me, the MP8 simply matches up like nothing else to a real piano - again, not talking about the sounds. I don't bother with any of the onboard ROM libraries expect for "sketching out" ideas - for me piano come courtesy of either various Giga libraries or Ivory.

The one thing I miss about the P250 is the faster response in higher registers than the MP8, but overall, the MP8 has better MIDI controller facilities and simply feels much closer to a real piano... so no regrets.

The announcement of the MP8-II therefore was met with hope namely because others posts suggested that the repetitive key strike issue had been improved with the AWA PRO-II action... so I took it for a test drive the other day after a solid workout on the MP8 beforehand.

MP8-II: Big disappointment in the new action. The new action is faster, but it is also much lighter and this, in turn, degrades the overall feel. I would liken the new AWA PRO-II action to be much closer to Yamaha's S90 action, definitely not even on par with a P250; at least that's what it felt like to me. Not sure if this was specific to just the unit I demoed, but the surface of the keys also felt strange; hard to describe but the MP8 key surfaces have a VERY nice high quality finish and there's very little slippage when you strike at high-speed. Not so with the MP8-II... it's a big step back in my opinion, and I didn't go into this hoping for or anticipating this experience.

Whilst reviewing other MP8 posts, I happened upon many that praised the special FATAR action found in Doepfer controllers. Happens that the US distributor is located here in LA so I took a drive over the try out the high-end model, the LMK4+ I thought I'd share my thoughts since many of you might be interested in this unit (especially if you play live, which I do not). In a nutshell, it's a great board! It feels VERY VERY close to the P250 action, and of course, you have the advantage of exceptional MIDI control (8 zones!) and much improved portability over either the P series or MP8/MP8-II. If I were a live player, I would definitely use this controller.

However, the LMK4+ still falls short of the MP8 in terms of overall feel and weight of the keys, and other Doepfer models apart from the higher end LMK4+ aren't in the ballpark (in terms of feel).

Final analysis (of "feel"):

- If you are looking for a master controller with the absolute closest piano feel, have reasonable MIDI controller requirements, and don't require portability, the MP8 is my recommendation. But stay away from the MP8-II. NOW, seems the right time to acquire the MP8 since everyone has recently lowered their price and new units won't be around for very long (once the MP8-II hits distribution). Should add that MIDI control capabilities have been improved in the MP8-II, but the degraded feel more than offsets the new features.

- If you are looking for a stage piano with excellent feel, faster key speed, but at the expense of the level of authenticity (feel) provided by the MP8, but with the best onboard sounds, I'd probably have to say Yamaha P series or the newer line wins out here. Not the most portable, but still lighter than the MP8.

- If you are looking for the best feel with maximum portability (in a controller), I would have to recommend the LMK4+ My impression of the LMK4+ is a portable MIDI controller version of the P250; they feel nearly identical!

Hope this helps, and preface that everything herein is one person's opinion...

[Carlinhos]

Hi everyone.
I'm looking for a good hammer action midi controller for use with native instruments in my home (and posibly on stage). I have a rd700 for gear and a i looking for some controller with a similar feel. The problem is that I'm in Chile, south america.
Somebody know if there is a dealer in south america with distribution of Doepfer MK4 or Fatar Studiologic.
Best
Carlos
www.papanegro.com

Originally Posted by fastonkeys

Hello everyone,

The announcement of the MP8-II was met with great curiosity on my part, and prompted me to go out and try it to compare against my Kawai MP8. I've been very happy with the MP8, having upgraded to it from a Yamaha P250. I also own a Steinway concert grand so I'm one of those that is constantly seeking the most authentic piano feel for my main controller (in the studio).

First, I have nothing but good things to say about the Yamaha P250, or what's evolved from that line. I opted for the MP8, however, because I really prefer the heavier feel, and to me, the MP8 simply matches up like nothing else to a real piano - again, not talking about the sounds. I don't bother with any of the onboard ROM libraries expect for "sketching out" ideas - for me piano come courtesy of either various Giga libraries or Ivory.

The one thing I miss about the P250 is the faster response in higher registers than the MP8, but overall, the MP8 has better MIDI controller facilities and simply feels much closer to a real piano... so no regrets.

The announcement of the MP8-II therefore was met with hope namely because others posts suggested that the repetitive key strike issue had been improved with the AWA PRO-II action... so I took it for a test drive the other day after a solid workout on the MP8 beforehand.

MP8-II: Big disappointment in the new action. The new action is faster, but it is also much lighter and this, in turn, degrades the overall feel. I would liken the new AWA PRO-II action to be much closer to Yamaha's S90 action, definitely not even on par with a P250; at least that's what it felt like to me. Not sure if this was specific to just the unit I demoed, but the surface of the keys also felt strange; hard to describe but the MP8 key surfaces have a VERY nice high quality finish and there's very little slippage when you strike at high-speed. Not so with the MP8-II... it's a big step back in my opinion, and I didn't go into this hoping for or anticipating this experience.

Whilst reviewing other MP8 posts, I happened upon many that praised the special FATAR action found in Doepfer controllers. Happens that the US distributor is located here in LA so I took a drive over the try out the high-end model, the LMK4+ I thought I'd share my thoughts since many of you might be interested in this unit (especially if you play live, which I do not). In a nutshell, it's a great board! It feels VERY VERY close to the P250 action, and of course, you have the advantage of exceptional MIDI control (8 zones!) and much improved portability over either the P series or MP8/MP8-II. If I were a live player, I would definitely use this controller.

However, the LMK4+ still falls short of the MP8 in terms of overall feel and weight of the keys, and other Doepfer models apart from the higher end LMK4+ aren't in the ballpark (in terms of feel).

Final analysis (of "feel"):

- If you are looking for a master controller with the absolute closest piano feel, have reasonable MIDI controller requirements, and don't require portability, the MP8 is my recommendation. But stay away from the MP8-II. NOW, seems the right time to acquire the MP8 since everyone has recently lowered their price and new units won't be around for very long (once the MP8-II hits distribution). Should add that MIDI control capabilities have been improved in the MP8-II, but the degraded feel more than offsets the new features.

- If you are looking for a stage piano with excellent feel, faster key speed, but at the expense of the level of authenticity (feel) provided by the MP8, but with the best onboard sounds, I'd probably have to say Yamaha P series or the newer line wins out here. Not the most portable, but still lighter than the MP8.

- If you are looking for the best feel with maximum portability (in a controller), I would have to recommend the LMK4+ My impression of the LMK4+ is a portable MIDI controller version of the P250; they feel nearly identical!

Hope this helps, and preface that everything herein is one person's opinion...

[DowntownScience]

Fully weighted keys are the only criteria for me. Everything else feels to synthetic.

[GYang]

Originally Posted by fastonkeys

The announcement of the MP8-II therefore was met with hope namely because others posts suggested that the repetitive key strike issue had been improved with the AWA PRO-II action... so I took it for a test drive the other day after a solid workout on the MP8 beforehand.

MP8-II: Big disappointment in the new action. The new action is faster, but it is also much lighter and this, in turn, degrades the overall feel.

Great review and thanks

Still, I would like to express my point of the view that differs from your.
First, I'm not professional piano player or even very well trained one, but like very much natural feel of MP8. It was my Nr.1 choice among everything offered in the market.
Contrary to your opinion, slightly changed action was just what I really hoped for. BTW I'm not so sensitive, but still nice feel is great thing to have on such keyboards. Yamaha is good, but still significantly behind Kawai in this respect.
It's matter of taste and very subjective issue, but to me MKII is step forward in both mechanical and electonic parts.
I would suggest anyone to try both and it might happen that many would prefer feel of the MKII.
In terms of being top class 88 key controller MP8 in both incarnations is top contender and final choice should really depend on individual preferences.

[harry_seldon]

Yamaha S08 under a $1000 new and cheaper used. For extensive buttons and sliders for fiddling and twiddling, get something designed for the task. I would look at the Novation Remote SL Zero

[Dr. Gonzo]

I've got the CME 88 key controller and it seems great to me! I'm not a keyboard player by training, though, so I can't really comment on how it feels compared to a nice piano, etc. But in my opinion, I got a great keyboard at a great price.

Gonzo

[Midiguy]

I own both the Fantom X and a Yamaha S90ES. The S90ES is a fantastic keyboard, and has Yamaha's best piano sample ever inside it. If you doubt that - then go check out how Yamaha is offering the sample on CD-Rom to buyers of their other synths that have the ability to import files. Yamaha is also calling it their best sample in a synth ever. The Fantom X is not even a close 2nd in piano sounds. Either will control Midi just fine, but you'll save money wtih the Yamaha because it has no sequencer, etc.

[uncle duncan]

I'm one of those (professional) piano players (for 30 years) with a light touch, and I absolutely hate the Yamaha P series action. I used one for a week on a gig, but had to return it. To me, it felt like when you're in a dream, running, but you're not getting anywhere.

Roland action fits my style. (I'm using an FP2 these days.) Fater also feels good, but the one I had fell apart after a couple of years in the studio.

I've heard nothing good about the CME and the Maudio, and, as I recall, their action was mushy - totally unusable for a pro player.

I would suggest bringing a CD to the store - something you can play along with. This will reveal how the action fits your playing style. If you're constantly behind the beat, it's probably too heavy, and if you're ahead, it's too light.

One more thought - as a songwriting tool, the Roland FP2 is cool, in that it has built in speakers, so you can jam with an acoustic guitar player without amplification. It also has a bunch of built in rhythms, which you could, theoretically, use on a gig (if it was a really lame gig.) The midi implementation is bare bones - split point, that's about it.

Yet another thought - if you want to control organ patches with a keyboard, getting one with a mod wheel that stays where you put it, (as apposed to springing back to 'center' when you let go) allows you to turn the leslie on and off without holding your left hand on the mod wheel the whole time.

[donsolo]

I really don't belong in here because I'm kinda low-endy...

But...
I own the Keystation pro88 and it's reduced from $500.

Enigma is the program that maps the midi controllers and the name is true...until you figure it out...

Basically, real pianists hate it because it's not true feeling, but it does have the hammer action which IMHO, is more comfortable than full weighted...If you aren't an action snob, it's a great value, tons of knobs, faders and drawbar mode. it's also a good USB>Midi if you need a few more channels of that.

As for quality, buy from somewhere you can return because my friend's had some poorly assembled keys, if you get a good one though it really is quite nice. I pair it up with an Akai MPD16 and get the same features as a Fantom but with easier use (In terms of pure midi control) and a LOT more knobs to control my monstrocities in Reaktor and all of my Moog/Arp/Profet emulations.

I'd recommend it because of it's versatility (IE the pushbuttons as well) and it has MMC which if you sync it up makes for a pleasant experience.

The major pitfall is that it's not "True" Piano action though honestly, if you're looking for a Piano...hunt Criagslist and you'll get a free one that maybe needs a couple hundred in work...

Just my $.02, YMMV