Ribbon mic for rock guitars!

[Logan Connery]

As I have no Ribbon mic, I thought somebody could help me to pick one!

It will be used mostly for rock guitars and possibly strings.

I have the chance to get the following mics for the same price. I'm between
Coles 4038, AEA R84 and Royer R21

Cheers!!

[7om]

I'm sure if you do a search, you will find tons of info on all of these mics. I only have experience with the Royer 121, but it sounds great on electric guitar amps.

[AlexLakis]

I'm picking up an RSM-2 soon. I'm sure it won't compare to the 121, but I'll let you know if it comes close for rock guitars.

[Dave Martin]

I used both an R84 and an RCA 74b yesterday on a mesa cabinet. The R84 smoked the RCA. Be warned, though - that Michael Wagener feels like the R84 can't take as much level as the Royer. But he records LOUD!!!

[84K]

121

but I do not like ribbons alone on guitars...,. I always miss the midrange of a dynamic... can you guess which?

[themaidsroom]

121

[picksail]

The R84 can handle levels of up to 165dbspl @1k.

I've used it on loud cabinets, but I just don't have the testicles that Dave has. I'm just too much of a wuss to put that thing directly in front of a Marshall cab. Albeit, I gradually get the mic a little closer and a little louder everytime.

I prefer to double-mic the cab with the R84/441 combo. At least with a small wattage Fender tube amp. Really nice.

I would personally recommend the R84s, as you will probably get a bit more mileage out of them on a variety of sources.

Definitely the most used mics that I have.

[Schexnayder]

I have actually done an A/B test with the 121's verse the Coles 4038 on a Mesa Boogie dual rec half stack and the 121s seemed to smoke the Coles. While "real" critical listening terms evade me at the moment, the consensus in the room of metal heads was that the 121s gave you more, and I quote the quitar player, "rip your face off."

I'm sure each sounds different depending on the amp/cab though...plus I haven't ever heard the R84 on a rock guitar in person.

[Jamz]

Royer 121 is my choice for cabs. It's got more up front mid detail.
R84 is smoother on the top with an extended bottom.
Typically use the 4038s on piano and drum OHs.

[Fletcher]

The Coles 4040 has become a hardcore favorite of mine on guitars, drums, etc.... but then again it's not as fashionable as most of the mics mentioned here so it could just be that it has a somewhat 'uncommon' tone in comparison.

I dunno... it's a tool... sometimes it works well.

[TAVD]

The 121, if I could have one.

The Nady RSM-2 gives up detail for smoother response and scooped mids. I like it for rock vocals though.

The Coles 4104b is very quick and tight and can add some attack that might get lost with a lot of effects.

[Doublehelix]

I also like the R121.

I tried the AEA R92, and did not like it compared to the R121, so I sent it back (Thanks Fletcher!) and bought the R121.

To me, it needs the help of another dynamic to fill it out (SM47, MD421, MD441, e906, M201, etc.).

[C/G]

I will throw a few oddballs in there. Fostex M88RP and Beyer M160 (not really an oddball) and OKtava ML16. Those are ones I have tried in front of a Hiwatt and Fender Twin. M160 had a nice bite, Fostex was a bit more dark, and the old Oktava had a mellow hazy thing going on, similar to an R84 I had but the 84 had more top.

[kats]

I'm starting to second guess myself on the ribbon/guitar cab love affair. I'm wondering if it's the "ribbon" I like or (at least in the case of the 121) the room sound creeping in due to the figure of 8 pattern..........

[mwagener]

121 for loud guitar cabs. I've had them as close a 1 inch from the center of the cone, in other words inside the speaker on a blasting loud cabinet (I still believe speaker distortion is a good thing).

The 84 is a great sounding microphone, but I couldn't get it as close as the 121 and it sounded a tad roomy, probably based on the distance from the cab (about 1 foot) and the fig 8 pattern picking up the backside and room reflections. Amazing 3D sounding mic, great for drums.

I have used the Fostex M11RP for years (before I knew they were ribbons ) and stretched a bunch of ribbons in the process. They are great sounding mics as well, but I have 5 of them and each one sounds very different. Colin, Is the M88RP a new version or a completely different mic?

The Coles 4040 is another great sounding mic with a bit more pronounced midrange, which can come in handy for guitar. I'm not sure if it could be placed as close as a 121 though.

So to answer your question: if it's loud guitars - Royer 121 would be my choice

[NathanEldred]

It totally depends on what you want to hear. The 121 is a little more isolated than the R84, but it's also more aggressive and mid oriented. Neither here nor there, it will just be more pronounced around 1k (frequency). The R84 is a little more roomy and definitely more mellow in comparison, more proximity effect so you're going to hear a bigger low end and less high mids. A blanket on the 180 degree side of the mic fixes this easily...I do this even with an SM-7b cardioid in my room. The R92 is generally brighter and a little more upfront than the R84. So there are a few options and it depends on your production style and how you like the guitars to sit in relation to the drums and vocals. Personally I find that guitars take up so much of the mids naturally that I'm fighting to smooth that over a bit and carve a place for the snare and voice. YMMV.

[warhead]

AEA R84, like Nathan said just hang a blanket behind it if you don't want room sound and you're golden. The R92 is brighter and more present for sure, but the R84 can open up nicely with some EQ if needed.

I typically don't need much EQ at all but all of this stuff varies from room to room.

War

[C/G]

Originally Posted by mwagener

Colin, Is the M88RP a new version or a completely different mic?

As far as I know it is a fig. 8 version of the M11RP. It was my first ribbon purchase a few years back and I bought it off ebay for about $350, which was a pretty good deal I thought. I really like it. I have never used an R121 so I can not compare, but the Royer is on "the list" of things to buy. Since you have five M11RP's you should sell me one.

[not_so_new]

Originally Posted by Fletcher

The Coles 4040 has become a hardcore favorite of mine on guitars, drums, etc.... but then again it's not as fashionable as most of the mics mentioned here so it could just be that it has a somewhat 'uncommon' tone in comparison.

I dunno... it's a tool... sometimes it works well.

On Fletcher's recommendation I picked up a 4040 myself. I have not used it yet on guitars so sorry to get a bit off topic but I have used it on overheads and let me just say ..... WOW.... I mean freakn'g WOW… I am so surprised this mic does not get talked about more around here.

Anyway I also have an R121 to compare the 4040 to and to me the 4040 is a bit more detailed.

This is just a hunch but for loud aggressive guitars I think I might like the smooth yet forward thing the R121 does a bit better (again I have not tried the 4040 on guitars yet). Again different songs, different amps, different players might call for something else but I would check out the R121 for guitar.

BUT if I were to get an all around ribbon it would be the 4040 hands down. I think it would excel at guitar cabs and it is great for overhead duties, great for vocals, gear for percussion all around just a great mic.

[RoundBadge]

122
coles 4038
4040
RCA 44 back a bit..sometimes just alone with cranked Pultec on the Hi's.amazing.
R84..but I sold my pair.
Beyer 160..cool,but seems to fold/collapse with really loud up close stuff .
.....Any combo with a SDC or dynamic up close as well,sometimes W/ L.L. IBP...
blended to desired effect.

[cdog]

ShinyBox 23L
Royer 122
R84
4038

All good mics.

[Kubilay]

I didn't like the 121 on anything else, but I LOVED it on a guitar cab. This was a Tele into a matchless or something similar. Absolutely gorgeous.

But for me it's too expensive to be a one-trick pony, so I just borrow one from a client when I need it. If I recorded guitar cabs all the time, it'd be a no-brainer.

I also like the Baby Bottle on guitar cabs, about a foot away. Has a similar midrange, but more focus and a "better" high end than the 121. This is into a GTQ2, which really elevates the Baby Bottle to a new level.

[Mike Caffrey]

The 121 is great.

I'm surprised how few times the 160 has come up. I've never had any probelms with it up against the greeil on loud amps.

[Meriphew]

Originally Posted by Kubilay

I didn't like the 121 on anything else, but I LOVED it on a guitar cab. This was a Tele into a matchless or something similar. Absolutely gorgeous.

But for me it's too expensive to be a one-trick pony, so I just borrow one from a client when I need it. If I recorded guitar cabs all the time, it'd be a no-brainer.

I also like the Baby Bottle on guitar cabs, about a foot away. Has a similar midrange, but more focus and a "better" high end than the 121. This is into a GTQ2, which really elevates the Baby Bottle to a new level.

My main guitar/amp combo is a Tele > a Bad Cat. I had been using a Blue Baby Bottle along with an SM57. It sounded very good, but as soon as I started using my R-121 (sometimes along with a 57), that took the sound to an all new level. The R-121 also made me really appreciate my AC30.

[kats]

The R-121 also made me really appreciate my AC30.

Clear winner there for me too. From clean to that "type" of overdriven sound knocks my socks off with a 121. Somehow it sounds more natural or organic. When it starts getting into killer Marshall/Mesa territory I become underwhelmed.

[Dave Martin]

Originally Posted by mwagener

121 for loud guitar cabs. I've had them as close a 1 inch from the center of the cone, in other words inside the speaker on a blasting loud cabinet (I still believe speaker distortion is a good thing).

That's probably what I heard the other day. What I thought were F15's flying low was most likely a Michael Wagener guitar overdub... Your studio's only about 35 miles from mine, after all...

[neve1073]

It's become a cliche, but it's the f#$%ing truth: the royer 121 is incredible for micing guitar amps. I love it.

[minister]

you guys keep talking about the 121.

i have a 122.

how do they compare?

[Ram Jam]

B&O: BM3 , BM5, BM6

[borau]

Beyer M160
Coles 4038

but my latest fav is actually Soundelux E47.........not that it's a ribbon or anything.