Neumann U87 Hate Mail

[earsofgreen]

Though the ubiquitous U87 in it's many reincarnations regularly gets the stink eye around here, can we start a thread enlightening those of us"less in the know" on some of it's career highlights?

Famous tracks recorded using the U87/ai on lead vocals, examples of where the U87 beat out mic ___? Signal chains that produced control room euphoria coupled with the right singer and song. Bonus points if you reference a track not in the 80's or 90's.
(but still valid nonetheless)

I just think that a mic with such a legacy as the U87 getting so much regular hate mail on these threads, at a certain point it makes you scratch your head. Its hard to believe actually. I know that the revolution in modern mic builders has greatly leveled the playing field, but cmon, a U87 still is a U87. Last time I checked the Neumann badge still elicited the response "whoa, is this a U87?"

Rant and Rave on Gearslutz!

[DONNX]

I can tell you this as a known fact. Not all U87s are the same. So you will get thousands of different opinions.

I am in fact in love with my 1968 U87s matched pair and would never sell them.

[pdiddy boy]

I think you need to change your thead title if your look for some positive responses.

[Thumper]

Here's the deal...

An 87 is a great microphone. NO ONE is going to debate that. However, it's not a "holy grail" microphone which a lot of people who have never even been in the same room as one view it as. I think that's where a lot of "hate" is stemmed from.

GS is FILLED with people offering their opinions on gear that they've never seen in person, let alone used, and with that comes a lot of misleading statements.

You have 99 people raving about the "hitmaker 2000", when in reality, only 95 of those people have used it... And then 1 person who doesn't really like the "hitmaker 2000", and that one person's view is going to be viewed as hatemail, because let's face it, 99 people absolutely LOVE IT.

At the same time, you're going to have people that hate the hitmaker 2000, because they can't afford it, and they think that their "almost 47" is just as good for 1/10th the price. They've never touched a hitmaker 2000, but people are getting "good results" with their almost 47, so why the hell should they pay 10 times as much for a piece of kit?

Everyone likes what they use because they have to validate their investment, which is fine, but they need to shut the hell up when talking about something that they don't have the slightest clue about.

Take everything with a grain of salt, and try shit out for yourself. That's THE ONLY way you're going to know if you like something or not.

Oh, and you asked about recordings where an 87 was used... Pointless. Just because it worked on that source does not mean that it's going to work with your source. Way too many variables to judge how a piece of kit works when you don't know how the source sounded in the room.

I will tell you this... An 87 sounds great off axis. This comes in handy when working with vocalists that aren't perfectly still when tracking. Very good, almost un-natural transient response that helps it cut through a mix. It's a brighter mic, but still has a full low midrange response. It has the Neumann badge, and that never hurts.

Try one out, see if you like it.

[Nostalgic]

I just purchased my first Neumann U87ai and have only done test recordings with it to get a nice set up level with my Avalon.. i must say the combo is really smooth...i do love the sound of the u87 so far..

[butterfly]

Very good, almost un-natural transient response that helps it cut through a mix. It's a brighter mic,

.................absolutely hit the nail on the head, which is why it's great for rap vocals and I think great for enhancing the punch and syllables, particularly for softer grained voices. Downside is it can get harsh in the upper mids when it's fed a lot of db's and that presence peak starts to become a bit overpronounced. I was never really satisfied with mine in many vocal recording situations. I never got to try it with a really great pre-amp which might have helped and I guess had I had the luxury of tracking to tape into a desk it might have performed way better but in the digital world with less than stellar convertors and pre -amps I think these factors become exaggerated. Had a mod done by Andreas grosser and generally am much happier, however I also upgraded my pres and convertors at the same time.

[antoniosolo]

Played with it at 09 AES and had a Heyne modified in my studio for a day, it sucks in its normal guise but with modification is wonderful. Shouldn't be and isn't the preferred Neumann for good reason, from what my experience has been.

[Magic Alex]

Originally Posted by Thumper

Here's the deal...

GS is FILLED with people offering their opinions on gear that they've never seen in person, let alone used, and with that comes a lot of misleading statements.

You have 99 people raving about the "hitmaker 2000", when in reality, only 95 of those people have used it... And then 1 person who doesn't really like the "hitmaker 2000", and that one person's view is going to be viewed as hatemail, because let's face it, 99 people absolutely LOVE IT.

At the same time, you're going to have people that hate the hitmaker 2000, because they can't afford it, and they think that their "almost 47" is just as good for 1/10th the price. They've never touched a hitmaker 2000, but people are getting "good results" with their almost 47, so why the hell should they pay 10 times as much for a piece of kit?

Everyone likes what they use because they have to validate their investment, which is fine, but they need to shut the hell up when talking about something that they don't have the slightest clue about.

Take everything with a grain of salt, and try shit out for yourself. That's THE ONLY way you're going to know if you like something or not.

Try one out, see if you like it.

Don't forget 'the daytrippers'. These are people who fantasize so vividly about what they'd buy, if they had the money, that they start talking about it as if they already owned it...thinking that everyone here will start respecting them because they own one.

Last week, this guy bragged about how great his lunchbox is...but it's just a photoshopped image using each module's advertising photo...

500 Lunchbox

As mentioned by many others, be very cautious about where you get advice from. I find that the gear pimps for the big suppliers are the best source. They have seen the product in use, and are aware of that products weaknesses due to returns.

[Tone Laborer]

Originally Posted by Magic Alex

Don't forget 'the daytrippers'. These are people who fantasize so vividly about what they'd buy, if they had the money, that they start talking about it as if they already owned it...thinking that everyone here will start respecting them because they own one.

Sunday drivers yeah! Funny, since you seem to be doing the same thing in the thread you reference. It took you soooo long to find out. But you found out.

[S.F.Sorrow]

Originally Posted by earsofgreen

can we start a thread enlightening those of us"less in the know" on some of it's career highlights?

Famous tracks recorded using the U87/ai on lead vocals
Rant and Rave on Gearslutz!

If we can stay on this topic this thread would interest me a lot. I've never had the pleasure of working with a U87 and it would be interesting to know some famous tracks where it was used. Have been thinking about getting one for a while now but haven't had the opportunity to try one yet.

Sure, there are many models but that just makes it more interesting. There are enough pro/con U87 threads here already but if the OP's question is followed up this can be a lot more interesting. To me anyway...

[Magic Alex]

Originally Posted by Tone Laborer

Sunday drivers yeah! Funny, since you seem to be doing the same thing in the thread you reference. Physician heal thyself. We can't go on together, with suspicious minds.

Yes and no. I was commenting on how effective units were that claim to be like the vintage ones, not claiming to own certain products, and certainly not Photoshopping to falsify my claims.

However, I was commenting on units I don't own. (although I've never heard an original Pultec, but at least I don't claim to to validate) The discussion did lead to some good listening tests that the Anamod 660 captured the essence of the Fairchild quite well.

But this is what I'm saying, it's so easy to give opinions on products we know nothing about. I'm sure that we've all done it at some time, to some extent.

[dualflip]

Some ppl call the U87 the industry standard, it may have been the industry standard some years ago, and by that i mean decades, however my theory is that a lot of ppl want/own one because they have seen it in lots of studios, and because its the typical mic one relates with the picture of a singer in a recording studio.

The U87 is a very good mic, however to me its sound is very outdated, at least for vocals in pop albums, you are going to see it a lot in the broadcast industry, but i would like to know how many recent albums have been recorded with one, and although i know a few of them, the truth is that a lot of new artists have been using something else.

The U87 for me has become a mic i would use for something else other than vocals.

[Tone Laborer]

ah majic, you quoted me before I had the song right. Damn. Yes, there are some people who are full of it on GS. You get to discern. I never saw his answer about the photo--it does look ....odd. But do threads need more watch dogs on their soapboxes...you decide.

Sorry for the ot.

For me, it's not a question of whether the U87 is a great mic, but whether it's worth the premium price you pay for it compared to Gefell, Blue, etc. A Bock 151 is less!! It probably is.

[Olllli]

For me the U87 is a boring mic. Especially with vocals.

It's good, but boring.


Regards
Olllli

[jjblair]

I was doing a session some famous singer who's been carrying the same U87 around in a shoe box for the last 30 years, and insists on using it. We put it up, and immediately, it sounded like a U87. Too much 1kHz, a little boxy, sibilant, etc. I talked him into letting me put a M49 on him, because I thought it would work much better with his voice. The producer and everybody in the room couldn't get over how much better it sounded, but the singer couldn't deal. He was so used to the way his vocal sounded through a U87, and we wound up doing the record on the U87.

That is one of the only times that a U87 was chosen over other mics, and the only person who preferred that sound was the singer. The U87 is almost never chosen over other choices, but it works well on everything, and it's neutral enough that you can EQ it plenty to get a sound that fits the track.

Why was a U87 used on whatever record? Generally, because that was the mic that was available at the time. Either the studio didn't have a U47 or 251, or they were not working properly, or they were being used on some other instrument. People didn't have endless amounts of time to audition crap in their bedroom studios, and weren't able to listen to shootouts on Gearslutz. They were paying $200/hr just for the room. Grab something you know works, and start tracking. In many instances, that's a U87. It's not the best, far from the worst, and always workable.

I've owned three of them, from 1968 to late '70s. I decided that they were redundant in my mic locker, because I didn't prefer them on any source to any of my other mics, so I sold them for a profit. But if I had to make a record and that was all there was, I could make a good sounding record with ten of them.

[drBill]

Originally Posted by antoniosolo

Played with it at 09 AES and had a Heyne modified in my studio for a day, it sucks in its normal guise but with modification is wonderful. Shouldn't be and isn't the preferred Neumann for good reason, from what my experience has been.

If you LIKE what the 87 brings to the table, you probably won't prefer the Heyne mic. If you like what the Heyne brings, you probably won't like a stocker. Apples and Oranges.

[dualflip]

Originally Posted by jjblair

I was doing a session some famous singer who's been carrying the same U87 around in a shoe box for the last 30 years, and insists on using it. We put it up, and immediately, it sounded like a U87. Too much 1kHz, a little boxy, sibilant, etc. I talked him into letting me put a M49 on him, because I thought it would work much better with his voice. The producer and everybody in the room couldn't get over how much better it sounded, but the singer couldn't deal. He was so used to the way his vocal sounded through a U87, and we wound up doing the record on the U87.

That is one of the only times that a U87 was chosen over other mics, and the only person who preferred that sound was the singer. The U87 is almost never chosen over other choices, but it works well on everything, and it's neutral enough that you can EQ it plenty to get a sound that fits the track.

Why was a U87 used on whatever record? Generally, because that was the mic that was available at the time. Either the studio didn't have a U47 or 251, or they were not working properly, or they were being used on some other instrument. People didn't have endless amounts of time to audition crap in their bedroom studios, and weren't able to listen to shootouts on Gearslutz. They were paying $200/hr just for the room. Grab something you know works, and start tracking. In many instances, that's a U87. It's not the best, far from the worst, and always workable.

I've owned three of them, from 1968 to late '70s. I decided that they were redundant in my mic locker, because I didn't prefer them on any source to any of my other mics, so I sold them for a profit. But if I had to make a record and that was all there was, I could make a good sounding record with ten of them.

Amen to that!, This post wraps it up...

[doorknocker]

Originally Posted by dualflip

The U87 is a very good mic, however to me its sound is very outdated, at least for vocals in pop albums, you are going to see it a lot in the broadcast industry, but i would like to know how many recent albums have been recorded with one, and although i know a few of them, the truth is that a lot of new artists have been using something else.

Yes, that 'something else' is called Autotune.

Been listening to quite a bit of Carpenters lately and you know what: I take that 'outdated' sound of Karen Carpenters voice captured by a U87 over most anythign recorded today!

[Baz]

Originally Posted by doorknocker

I take that 'outdated' sound of Karen Carpenters voice captured by a U87 over most anythign recorded today!

Amen to that! [although I think the production style back then had as much to do with it as the mic]

[dualflip]

Originally Posted by doorknocker

Yes, that 'something else' is called Autotune.

HA-HA (fake laugh)

[slaves666]

I use my 87 on vocals everyday.....its a late 70's model and yes it is sibilant and has a little in the 2k range.....but I know what to expect when using it, and if it doesn't sound good, it's usually the singer....

[dbock]

my experience mirrored JJ's. I used to use the 87 for room talkback so I could spy on the band, and sometimes toms when I ran out of C12a's.

[drBill]

Originally Posted by dbock

when I ran out of C12a's.

Yup. I HATE it when that happens.

[Karloff70]

lol. I only ever use them to mike toilet bowl, utilising that heinous lo mid bump to capture the impact into the water. But that's only after running out of Bock 507's.

[drBill]

Originally Posted by Karloff70

only after running out of Bock 507's.

[DONNX]

Originally Posted by slaves666

I use my 87 on vocals everyday.....its a late 70's model and yes it is sibilant and has a little in the 2k range.....but I know what to expect when using it, and if it doesn't sound good, it's usually the singer....

Amen to that!thumbsup

[Michael_Joly]

A 'purple badge", mid-1970's U 87 is now in my collection thanks to my buddy KRAMER who traded it for an MJE-K47H Stereo Kit.

I really do like this U 87 - much less harsh than the U 87ai version I'm familiar with. If Neumann made mics like this today - at reasonable prices, they would still be a contender instead of a footnote in microphone history.

[robertshaw]

Originally Posted by earsofgreen

Though the ubiquitous U87 in it's many reincarnations regularly gets the stink eye around here, can we start a thread enlightening those of us"less in the know" on some of it's career highlights?

Famous tracks recorded using the U87/ai on lead vocals, examples of where the U87 beat out mic ___? Signal chains that produced control room euphoria coupled with the right singer and song. Bonus points if you reference a track not in the 80's or 90's.
(but still valid nonetheless)

I just think that a mic with such a legacy as the U87 getting so much regular hate mail on these threads, at a certain point it makes you scratch your head. Its hard to believe actually. I know that the revolution in modern mic builders has greatly leveled the playing field, but cmon, a U87 still is a U87. Last time I checked the Neumann badge still elicited the response "whoa, is this a U87?"

Rant and Rave on Gearslutz!

newer ai is the only lemon

[redrue]

How many versions of the U87 are there?

I've heard of the U87 and the U87a. Are
there different versions of the U87a? I understand
the 'i' simply refers to its XLR connection so that
all with an XLR connector are actually either U87i or U87ai.

I ask about the different versions as there are
those here and elsewhere that contend that their
U87Ai is one of the older 'good ones'. Or are all
the 'Ai' models the same. If so, what
are the best years of manufacture.

I thank you for your attention to this matter.

Great mic. An industry standard. I like all incarnations. You don't like it? Then don't use it. When I use one, I know what to expect. Doesn't always work on every source, but I know what to expect.