top end 8/16 channel mixers?

[davidk]

hi!

i need a few opinions please, im looking for 8 to 16 chan mixers,
but not the mackie league, rather top end business.
i was looking at the crane song spider (v interesting) and other
summing mixers like mixdream/dangerous etc.
so far, i prefer the spider's various mixing possibilities (gain/fader/tape emu),
as i do want to mix not only run thru.
the dsp in the spider does put me off a little bit, i ve read that the tape emu
IS very good, but still, i might prefer an all-analogue mixer and
add extra stereo A/D like the universal audio or lavry blue.
the tla tube desks look good, some recommend them, but for me
it seems too cheap lookin at price:channels ratio.
has anyone heard the new neve summing mixer?
the mixer needs to have inserts, i want to implement my comps rack.
good gains (i like to crank it up, i make drum and bass ...),
and excellent bass response. it should be clean and be able
to handle fast transients, but it should also be possible to get some
dirt out of it, you may also call it rawness.
sometimes i like to squash the mix with the bassline (u know then the tops get all dirty fizzy when the bass hits).
i run most of my levels pretty hot.

thanks a zillion in advance, any opinions appreciated, always learning.
im quite desperate at this point to find something that suits me.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by davidk

hi!


any opinions appreciated,
im quite desperate at this point to find something that suits me.

Bottomn line man...how much are you willing to spend?

This is usually the determining factor.

[octatonic]

Originally Posted by davidk

hi!
sometimes i like to squash the mix with the bassline (u know then the tops get all dirty fizzy when the bass hits).
i run most of my levels pretty hot.

thanks a zillion in advance, any opinions appreciated, always learning.
im quite desperate at this point to find something that suits me.

Cultivate a relationship with a retailer who will let you demo in your studio.
If you are part of a big studio/complex you might be able to contact the distributor directly (and save 30-50% in the process.)
At that price point it is the only way(s).

JR

[u b k]

Originally Posted by davidk

the mixer needs to have inserts, i want to implement my comps rack.
good gains (i like to crank it up, i make drum and bass ...),
and excellent bass response. it should be clean and be able
to handle fast transients, but it should also be possible to get some
dirt out of it, you may also call it rawness

the daking is fast, and oh so fat.


gregoire
del ubik

[davidk]

well i can afford the spider.
i talked to my shop, it takes 3 months to get one,
they re all handmade ive been told or something.
not sure if i can give that one back once i tried it out haha.
i can demo pretty much anything else tho, but i
need somewhere to start (b4 i just order the spider...).

[davidk]

thanks for the daking hint!

[Adebar]

The GML is fast.
http://www.massenburg.com/cgi-bin/ml/mod9100.html

The Sonosax SX Series are also fast and uncolored.
http://www.sonosax.ch/index2.html

Same with the Cadac C-Type
http://www.cadac-sound.com/frameset....cts/c-type.htm

ADT BC3 is transparent.
http://www.adt-audio.com/UsProducts/...3MainPage.html

All of them have insert points.

In general for mixing only - no preamps needed - I would always consider small broadcast consoles. Especially older European designs had to fullfill a lot of technical requirements because money did not play an important part at the public broadcasters.

Same is true for older Neumanns or Gefells. Without the strong public broadcaters Neumann would have never become so big. There was always more than enough money for research and development.

On the other side a lot of great designs come from the states with the most important and powerful music and film industry - there are no units like the GML9100 from european manufacturers.

[Legacy]

First, the Spider is a beautiful piece. Sounds excellent. I wouldn't hesitate to use its mic pres AND A/D to replace my super-transparent usual stuff (Millennia, Hardy, Prism) and the tape sat is good.

A few others:

Millennia Mixing Suite - compatible with the GML - can be customized.

http://www.mil-media.com/docs/produc...ingsuite.shtml

Speck Lilo-have heard good things but not used it...:

http://www.speck.com/lilo/lilo.shtml

Manley - need I say more..?:

http://www.manleylabs.com/containerpages/16_299.html

I thought the Tonelux stuff looked great at AES. You'd have to wait a bit to see how it sounds etc.

Best,
Silas

[chap]

The Manley mixer is the balls but does have a sound.
Dangerous makes a nice, transparent mixer that is very handy during nixdown,
cheers,
chap

[Sounds Great]

Is there a small 16X8 API?

[mlocascio]

Originally Posted by Sounds Great

Is there a small 16X8 API?

Vintage discrete API 1604 console

(16) channels plus (4) FX returns. Typically 4 buss, but some were 8 buss. The 500 series API EQs (550 / 550A / 550A-1 / 550B / 553 / 554 / 560) go into the (16) channels and the (4) FX returns as well. Side note; the 550A-1, 554 and newer 560's are not fully discrete.

You don't see 1604's for sale often, and they are pricey when you do see them.

Absolutely awesome sounding console with lots of color. Definitely NOT in the transparent category though. You might consider a Daking if you want transparent.

[Timsplace]

Originally Posted by Sounds Great

Is there a small 16X8 API?

If you'd dig something API'ish you should check out Paul Wolf's (ex APIer) new Tonelux consoles. It's an open platform and he's got Daking, Empirical labs and others onboard making modules for it.

I haven't heard it, but if it sounds anything like an API, which I've heard it does, I'm sure it rocks.

Tim

[Mount Cyanide]

The Tonelux console station looks pretty cool.
I like how they compare today's climate to that of the 60s in terms of how a definition for a modern console is now up in the air. Exciting times when innovation is wide open like that.

[3rd world order]

I'm also looking at the spider and thinking very interesting..

it also has mic pres in case you want to add a folcrom..

[davidk]

the gml mixer looks nice. couldnt find a price recommendation tho, any ideas?
my budget allows the spider, does the gml mod9100 fit in?
the spider so far is the top canidate.
any experience with its A/D?
i really like the UA 2192, will get that or the lavry blue when buying
a mixer without included A/D. i think its only the spider that does it anyways ..
still undecided ..

[ToneLux]

hmmm...

[ToneLux]

Originally Posted by RobertPhilbeck

Takes shameless self promotion to a whole new level doesn't it.

So if I just put a link like everyone else, it wouldn't have been so shameless? Jezus, it's just a picture from AES, where, it seems, everyone but you came by to say hi.

You are obviously one of those people that like to appear that you have this high level of integrity, yet you prefer to assume one's "plot" and then broadcast it to the world instead of a PM that would have informed me of your opinion, to which I would have removed this pic because of it. I didn't look at it as self promotion, I saw everyone talking about Tonelux, 1604s and 8/16 channel mixers, so instead of talking about something that "might" be coming out soon, I showed a picture of something new that actually exists.

Sorry Mr. Integrity, but I didn't even look at it that way. I love this industry and I was excited about what I did.

[Sounds Great]

Originally Posted by RobertPhilbeck

Takes shameless self promotion to a whole new level doesn't it.

I'm sure he is very proud of his mixer and a lot of work went into it. So why is this a problem?

[Adebar]

Originally Posted by davidk

the gml mixer looks nice. couldnt find a price recommendation tho, any ideas?
my budget allows the spider, does the gml mod9100 fit in?
the spider so far is the top canidate.
any experience with its A/D?
i really like the UA 2192, will get that or the lavry blue when buying
a mixer without included A/D. i think its only the spider that does it anyways ..
still undecided ..

The GML is about 20000 $.

[voitessestudios]

Originally Posted by RobertPhilbeck

Hi Paul,
Seems like you could have read the original poster's post, recognized or inquired more about his needs, and spoken about how the features of your product might meet his needs.

Instead you just threw up the same picture you've been saturating us with since AES with NO commentary about how your product might meet his specific needs. Your post was of no help. Just advertising. As if you're too lazy to try and help, but not quite lazy enough to miss out on some easy marketing.

That's the difference.

God, what a dick. I've seen the pic on one other thread, not everwhere. When I saw this, I started thinking, "Hmmm", just like he said.

I have spoken to Paul many times, related and unrelated and I have never met anyone that was so willing to help, assist, pass along his own secrets, etc. The most UNparanoid person besides John Klett I have ever known.

What have you done for this industry that can compare to all the things he has done just to make better sounds and better records for us to listen to?

I saw him at AES, and one of his main things was NOT to tell me about how the console thing is laid out because (in his words) "A lot of engineers now days are younger and have never been in a large or even small studio session, so they have a different concept as to how they think a console should be. I don't want to steer them in an old direction. I would rather have them explain to me what they think is the right setup and then I can build it for them, the way they want it" This is a quote because I recorded it while talking to him (with his permission) with my note-taker.

All he is trying to do is get people to come up with fresh ideas, since the whole industry is changing so fast.

When I asked him how much this console was, he said that it was only a collection of different modules put together in a system like configuration so he could show what each one did. He gave me a price sheet and said to look it over and pick what I wanted. I don't think he even thought about pricing it.

When I watched others at his booth, everyone seemed excited as they were thinking things out in their heads as to how they could configure it for a custom situation.

"same picture you've been saturating us with since AES" AES is about 2 weeks gone. Saturating? What an idiot.

[ToneLux]

I remember you! You had that little tape machine thing recording my horse voice.

Yes, that is what I said, and like I said before, I was only trying to get a pause and some thinking going on. That picture is not for sale as it is.

If the person that started the thread would like any more info, I would be happy to assist, without trying to make a sale. I enjoy helping anyone that wants it. The reason I give out so much information is that even if someone was to build what I suggested and sell it, the numbers that he would sell wouldn't effect me, and would only further good sound (assuming what I said didn't suck), but if the guy decides to invest a few hundred grand and start a product line, more power to him, too.

Since you've scolded me twice now, why don't you help him instead of causing this in a perfectly good thread.

I don't see your name or logo anywhere except to spank me.

Hmmm...

[84K]

Originally Posted by RobertPhilbeck

Takes shameless self promotion to a whole new level doesn't it.

FOK OFF. Paul is being informative. Guess what dude, many gear builders are on these forums using false names, and talking their sh!t up. Do you know how easy it is for them to do that? It is called: Viral marketing, and it is effective and cheap. Paul is going under his own name, representing his product, and answering questions. You probably take advice from gear manufacturers everyday and don't even realize it. Get your head out of your ass.

[RoundBadge]

I had the Aurora GTM 822 8 channel mixer[with 8 channel expansion add on's] here for a while for little testing.
Very nice ..colored in the Neve vein..tight bottom end..2 aux sends per channel..stereo aux return 2 speaker outs..etc,etc
.....it will do very nice things to you're transients too,especially nice if your doing the DAW thing.

[Ziggy!!]

Originally Posted by RobertPhilbeck

.

You're a doushbag... Pipe down or piss off... you obivously haven't read many of pauls posts...

[RoundBadge]

Originally Posted by ToneLux

hmmm...

Hey Paul..Ive been trying to wrangle a mixer demo out here in LA ..
Ive got about 6 guys from around town that are dying to hear it.
I talked to Vintage King[they're still repping your stuff,right?] about three months ago..
No luck.
Ive spoken to Gil a few times about it over the past couple months.. but last time we talked AES was coming up,sounded like you guys were pretty swamped.
I completely understand your a busy guy..but Ive been eagerly eyeing the stuff for a year now.
What can I do to make this happen ?

[RoundBadge]

Also ..any possible pan automation in the works?

[markus enochson]

well, not exactly what u might be after byt neve 8816 might be cool for u. impressive for to my eyes and reading ability. havent heard it though...

also, a little birdie told me neve is coming out with a small 24 ch mixer 2006...

m

[davidk]

easy now, no need to get rowdy over a pic of a mixer, no matter who posted it.
i appreciate the info, never heard of tonelux before, but i guess it was
only a matter of time until i stumble upon it, basically thats what this thread is for.
;)
a link to the website would have been cool tho, and a little explanation
on how this desk is put together. i found some parts on the web, i
guess its a modular thing eh. im a novice in pro desks, so this might
be a bit to sophisticated for me to put together, so im looking for
ready-2-use solutions :)
sonosax looks funky.

[ToneLux]

Originally Posted by RoundBadge

Hey Paul..Ive been trying to wrangle a mixer demo out here in LA ..
Ive got about 6 guys from around town that are dying to hear it.
I talked to Vintage King[they're still repping your stuff,right?] about three months ago..
No luck.
Ive spoken to Gil a few times about it over the past couple months.. but last time we talked AES was coming up,sounded like you guys were pretty swamped.
I completely understand your a busy guy..but Ive been eagerly eyeing the stuff for a year now.
What can I do to make this happen ?

We are getting that end together now. Ww have sold around 6 24+ channel systems already, and it has been eating up modules fast. We are just now receiving our first lot of 1000 modules, which will clear up the log jam, and no...there is no autopanners... If you need to do autopanning, do it in PT then come out stereo.

and Markus, you can use whole words, it makes it easier for us old farts to read, since we never got into the cell phone typing thing... (I use a Treo)

[markus enochson]

i use treo too! ;) lovely little machine

any sales yet to sweden with the tonelux yet? I would like to check it out

that and the neve 8816 is on my gear to check list

best

markus