Best mic pre for solo acoustic guitar... Avalon AD2022 or....

[Joost]

Hi Guys,
I have just gotten a new setup and I think I am having trouble with my Portico pre. Since it's really new I figure I'd sell and get a dedicated preamp for recording solo acoustic guitar. I have heard great things about the Avalon AD2022. I want a clean and detailed sound and I have a stereo set of Gefell M300s to go with the pre.

What are your suggestions? I couldn't find much in a search that related to this use particularly.

thanks!

[Blenn]

I love the ams neve 1073 for that very purpose. Hell for most things!

Paul Blenn

[mr.gefell]

Originally Posted by Joost

Hi Guys,
I have just gotten a new setup and I think I am having trouble with my Portico pre. Since it's really new I figure I'd sell and get a dedicated preamp for recording solo acoustic guitar. I have heard great things about the Avalon AD2022. I want a clean and detailed sound and I have a stereo set of Gefell M300s to go with the pre.

What are your suggestions? I couldn't find much in a search that related to this use particularly.

thanks!

try Gordon.

[nbrecording]

Hi Joost,

What kind of trouble are you having with your Portico?

[Mike O]

You are probably not going to like this answer to your question. What type of AG sound are you trying to achieve? An example might help.

I have a 2022 and it is perfect sometimes. Sometime the GML or Slam get the work. But which gets chosen depends on the complete context. In a typical (cliche) dense pop mix or are you recording a Pat Metheny type sound?

[Boby Stoica]

Try the Millenia Media pre - is a very good thing for accoustic guitars. Hear it for your purposes - I have it here, and is very good for accoustic guitars and violins.

[Vasypher]

I love my API 512c on acoustic.......sometimes the Avalon 737 is in order.

[Musiclab]

I'm curious also, what problem are you having with the portico? I found the AD2022
to be thin sounding. Neve, API Daking will all be nicer on guitar. If you want the tube thing get the ADL 600 which is VERY fat.

[Knox]

telefunken is my favorite . . . though it has a 'sound' that I wouldn't say is 'clean' in the sterile style of Avalon or some of the pres today. You may want to rent one and see what you think. I like pres with character rather then perfectly "clean".

[feggymango]

My vote is for the Hardy pre's

[brownmouse]

well, allow me to add to the confusion. for acoustic guitar i would generally reach for a pendulum quartet (or mdp-1a), d.w. fearn vt-2, or a martech mss-1.
good luck,
joshua

[Ruudman]

I'm supprised you found the 2022 thin sounding, Musiclab.

I've found it to be full sounding, maybe a little passive for certain apps.



ruudman

[warhead]

Fast clean detailed sound?

DACS Clarity 2 channel.

War

[Joost]

Thanks for the answers guys. I will have to try out some preamps, I know this, because with the recent mic purchase I also went against what I thought I would like from the threads, but it did help me determine the field of options.

The trouble I am having is not literal trouble, but it's my only high end preamp (also have a DMP3 and RME Quad but that won't do for high end work), and I am not getting the sound I am looking for yet. I am looking for a more precise, high-fidelity sound with lots of detail and I am just wondering whether the character and the thickness of a Neve might not interfere with that. The recordings I like are indeed the Pierre Bensusan Intuite recordings, but I also liked the sound of Hour Glass by James Taylor, though that is more of a pop record, so not relevant for the sound I want for the acoustic instrumental recording I plan on doing.

[Joost]

Originally Posted by warhead

Fast clean detailed sound?

DACS Clarity 2 channel.

War

I checked out the link and this is what it said and indeed it looks to be exactly what I am looking for:
"In one informal session of The Listening Sessions, we set up a pair AKG 451Bs in an X-Y array on drum overheads. We then recorded the 451s through several mic pres, including the Millennia M-2B, the Millennia HV-3D, the Phoenix Audio DRS-2, vintage API 528's, the Great River MP-2 and the API 3124. All of these mic pres are favorites and get used regularly in sessions. Not surprisingly, they all scored well. Some of the engineers gave the most "natural" sound to the Millennia's, but there was an overwhelming surprise with the DACS Clarity MicAmps. The Clarity offered a "presence" and detail captured by none of the other mic pres. At one point on listening back to the drum tracks recorded to RADAR through the Clarity MicAmp, I could even make out the sound of individual snares on the snare drum! Stereo recordings are also an area where the design of the Clarity reveals itself. We've been monitoring on a pair of Dynaudio Air 15s, and through them the imagery and depth of detail of the Clarity shines. The Clarity also rose to the top of the pack in acoustic guitar sessions with Schoeps CMC6-MK4, and on vocals it provides a sound that is at once transparent and yet in your face.
In working on a graph in an attempt to characterise the sound of microphone preamplifiers, transparent is the far-left parameter. The Clarity is the only mic preamp that is literally off the scale. It is past transparent and has been given its own category we're describing as "hyperreal". The Clarity is the HDTV of mic pres.

I'd read somewhere that someone described the Clarity by saying that is sounded as though a sock, or cloth, had been removed from all their mics. One thing I can say is that while there are certainly many truly great mic pres on the market, the Clarity has a sound and characteristic that is all its own and not produced with any other mic pre. It's not just me saying this. Everyone I've talked to who has used the DACS Clarity MicAmp has been floored, including engineers at Peter Gabriel's Real World."

However, it looks good on paper, but how does it sound to me... that's the question.

Who here has worked with the Clarity and how did you like it?

[Musiclab]

Originally Posted by Ruudman

I'm supprised you found the 2022 thin sounding, Musiclab.

I've found it to be full sounding, maybe a little passive for certain apps.



ruudman

I a/bed the 2022 a manley voxbox, an API 512, a Daking 52270b and a Focusrite.
Using a U87 and a few other mics. Suprisingly the tube stuff was the thinnest sounding, with the 2022 being the thinnest of all. My fav of this bunch was the API. Recently I got an ADL 600 for evaluation, this is not a thin sounding tube box

[Joost]

Everything I read about the Dacs Clarity MicAmp (all the reviews, etc) make it seem that it is the next level up from the Portico, as it is being compared to much higher end pres and it has gotten some prestigeous awards. However, I can get it in europe for 1800,- give or take. One reviewer even compared it favorably to a Focusrite Red.

Strange or too good to be true?

[NathanEldred]

Buzz Audio MA2.2

[SoZo]

I have a 2022 , Gr MP-2NV and a Apogee Track 2. The Track 2 is my favorite for acoustic guitars.

[Pohaku]

Not that you haven't been given enough choices, but Millennia and Pendulum are both excellent on acoustic guitar. I have both and kind of lean towards the Pendulum for reasons that are hard to articulate. Seems to have just slightly more presence than the Millennia - but it's a close call.

[Cornvalley]

Buzz Audio MA2.2 with the Sowter transformer option.
Chap just got one of these pups and he seems extraodinarily happy about it.
He earns lot's of money, though I'm not sure if there's a connection.

[WEAPON_X]

i second the hardy preamps for clean classic nylon guitars.
for steel strings that should have a little bit warmth and sparkle the fearn preamp sounds good (about a year ago someone posted a link to difference steel string recordings with different preamps and the fearn really was top, just search it )

[syra]

2022 is very even sounding on Acoustic...try 50 Ohms Impedance to bring the high-mids out more. Also use those filters up to 110Hz and you wont have to eq much at all

1084s I find bright with my taylor...work best when I layer them on top of electric gtr (pop mix)

512Cs are in your face sounding. Bring the mids forward nicely. Work best for an aggresive sound IMHO.

You can't go wrong with any.

[sdelsolray]

For solo fingerstyle acoustic guitar, I chose a Pendulum Audio MDP-1a and a John Hardy M-2, each with two channels. They are both great for solo fingerstyle guitar. There are others that do well too, so these aren't the only choices, just my favorites of the pres I tried before buying. I've tried many since. I'm not changing anything.

Of course, at this level, the mics being used are an important part of the equation. For example, I heard your recent MG M300/Schoeps CMC5/MK4 comparision, using a Neve Portico pre. I liked the M300 better than the Schoeps. However, I compared the M300 with the Schoeps CMC6/MK4 using the Pendulum pre and much prefered the Schoeps over the M300, using that pre, in my studio, with my guitar, using my chops (or lack thereof). Again, at this level it's the preamp/mic combination that ultimately matters.

The Hardy with M300's is a mighty fine combination.

[Nu-tra]

that milenia is the shit for piano and acoustic guitar...

[music friend]

2022 had a very good crisp high end, so I can see how some could view it as thin, but for acoustic this is a good thing, especially in conjunction with the filters. YMMV.

[Peter Simonsen]

For that kind of work I alway reach for either GML preamps or Millennia preamps.

Kind regards

Peter

[Joost]

Thanks guys, great suggestions, and the Hardy and Millenia look nice as well, but the only one I will be able to try out in the Netherlands so far will be the Millenia and the Dacs. There is surprizingly little to find about the Dacs on this board. But when I read the different reviews, the Dacs seems to beat most of the mic pre's mentioned here. I wish I could make my own assessment with all of the above, but here are some interesting quotes:

In one informal session of The Listening Sessions, we set up a pair AKG 451Bs in an X-Y array on drum overheads. We then recorded the 451s through several mic pres, including the Millennia M-2B, the Millennia HV-3D, the Phoenix Audio DRS-2, vintage API 528's, the Great River MP-2 and the API 3124. All of these mic pres are favorites and get used regularly in sessions. Not surprisingly, they all scored well. Some of the engineers gave the most "natural" sound to the Millennia's, but there was an overwhelming surprise with the DACS Clarity MicAmps. The Clarity offered a "presence" and detail captured by none of the other mic pres. At one point on listening back to the drum tracks recorded to RADAR through the Clarity MicAmp, I could even make out the sound of individual snares on the snare drum! Stereo recordings are also an area where the design of the Clarity reveals itself. We've been monitoring on a pair of Dynaudio Air 15s, and through them the imagery and depth of detail of the Clarity shines. The Clarity also rose to the top of the pack in acoustic guitar sessions with Schoeps CMC6-MK4, and on vocals it provides a sound that is at once transparent and yet in your face.

In working on a graph in an attempt to characterise the sound of microphone preamplifiers, transparent is the far-left parameter. The Clarity is the only mic preamp that is literally off the scale. It is past transparent and has been given its own category we're describing as "hyperreal". The Clarity is the HDTV of mic pres.

Dan Richards, Studio Reviews and the Listening Sessions

Shafton and I had five days to record and mix five songs for his upcoming CD and spent the best part of the first day finding the right mics (Neumann TLM 103 & KM184, with Groove Tubes MD3a and EquiTech E200) and testing mic pre’s. Along with the Grace 201, a favourite among many acoustic artists, and the new DACS, my studio has a pair of Neve 1272s and API 312s reworked by Brent Averill, and a D.W. Fearn tube mic pre. Each preamp had its own colour and flattered the acoustic guitar, and each was exceptional with its own texture, except for the DACS: When using the DACS, it sounded as if a cover had been taken off the microphones. Thankfully, we were rolling tape during the tests and could go back and recheck our immediate reactions – there was still no doubt about it.

-Eliott James, the Mix

The first thing that struck me on listening was how quiet the MicAmp is. In the specifications for the unit, under 'Noise' it says 'negligible' -- and it really is! I gather the triple-transistor-pair input stage is run with a very high quiescent current, and that apparently has a lot to do with both the eerily silent background, and the astonishing level of detail that this unit produces. This was the second thing that struck me -- given a good microphone, every nuance of the original sound source is faithfully captured and amplified.
Until I played with the MicAmp, I believed the Focusrite Red preamps to be amongst the finest ever made. Well, they remain so in my book, but the DACS is definitely up there with them. According to Philip Hobbs (who makes recordings for Linn Records, Gimell Records, and Hyperion), the DACS "perform significantly better than the Reds". I was not in a position to make a direct comparison, so I can't confirm this bold statement, but the MicAmp is certainly extremely accurate, clean, and faithful, and yes, it has all the clarity that DACS promised when they named their new range.

If you are on the lookout for a very high-quality dual mic preamp, you have to try this one alongside the other established quality products such as the Focusrites and the Amek RCMA, or even the refurbished classic Neve front ends. It's simply stunning!

-Hugh Robjohns, Sound-on-Sound





Well, they all agree on one thing, that the Dacs can compete with the best out there, including Millenia, DW Fearn, Vintage Api et al, but for a nicer price.
Is there any experience on this board that can confirm or deny these claims

[Joost]

anyone?

[bhp]

Another vote for the Pendulum MDP-1

Also the Aphex 1100