Just 8 Tracks, 1", tape. Are you brave enough? (DAPTONE)

[jindrich]

These holidays I've been listening to a bunch of Daptone stuff. I have to say those records are simply KILLER, and seriously put to absolut shame -both musically and sonically- 95% of anything currently released.
I'm convinced the Music Industry's crisis would be solved with one simple move, which is to follow Daptone's path (MUSIC, in capital letters) and drop all those Karaoke Celebrities of today (which are only good to sell clothes but not records).


Anyway, on the production/engineering/sonics side of things, I find Daptone stuff truly remarkable. It does SOUND incredibly good, with liveness, depth, space, dynamics and emotions, unlike mostly anything released on the past decade, which is bland, flat and sounds like total garbage. The recipe of it all is very simple:

first class musicians, clever arrangements, great songs and an engineer that doesn't get in the way!

Seriously, look at this:



This chalkboard above shows instrument/s track assignment for each song. Yes, it's only 8 tracks, and yes, drums take just a single one.
In the days of the all mighty DAW it certainly shocks the most the conscient technical self-limiting choice in order to improve musicality. Funnily enough, it not only works, but it does miracles! Maybe Brian Eno was right after all.

I also find very remarkable the choice of equipment at Daptone's studio, which for the typical Gearslutz can only be described as "rubbish". There's no U47s or 251s, no Neves, no G+ or APIs, no PTHD, no Pultecs, Fairchilds or Bricastis, no walls of compressors nor any of the more fancy modern boutique stuff discussed here, and even less those Waves/JJP/CLA-plugins.
Just straight simple tools used professionally with the right attitude, which is to let the band get through with minimal intervention. And no fear of commitment!


It's so funny to see thread after thread over here about which expensive microphone or preamp or plugin or magical box will bring that beloved 70's musicality, while there are a few guys out there hitting the nail with the most simple tools and proper techniques, just using their ears to, for instance, find exactly where to put sometimes nothing but a SINGLE cheap mic on a drumkit.


I think it's time already for the kid to shout out loud " the king is naked". Listen a bit and you tell me. Happy new year.

PS: if you dont know much about Daptone records, start with the "Daptone Gold" compilation, but BEWARE, you won't be able to listen to the radio nor to any current production again, and you will question all current music production methods (and maybe yourself).

[Waltz Mastering]

Good post...nice to see people keepin it real.

[mikecorwin]

+1, Daptone has it right in my opinion. The new Naomi Shelton and the Gospel Queens record just sounds awesome....great music, played live by great musicians.

[megido]

I invariably record on 1" 8 trk unless it's all live straight to 1/4".
8 trks is more than enough if the band can play and make decisions.
Think of all the great records made before the advent of the 16 trk.
Great sounds come from great players.

[Tibbon]

But what will become of all those people out there without talent?

Without Auto-Tune they'll be homeless!

[kosmokrator]

I cannot hear it anymore. There are killer straight to 2-track, 8-track, infinite tracks and processed to the 10th degree records out there.
Use what helps the music most.
Not everyone is recording acoustic music and some of the songs of your 'clothes-selling' celebrities are top-notch production - and songwriting-wise. They often use very capable players to record their 'karaoke'.

And there was crap music in the 60s and 70s as well.
Just think of that unbearable reggae-tune of Led Zeppelin.

I'm really sick of that 'just 8 tracks', 'no compression', 'eq is evil' 'today's music sucks' - BS.
Reminds me of grannies always telling younger people how great everything was decades ago and how everything sucks nowadays.

Sorry, rant over.

[jeremyglover]

Originally Posted by jindrich

I also find very remarkable the choice of equipment at Daptone's studio, which for the typical Gearslutz can only be described as "rubbish".

while i hear what your saying and dig the music their trident board, ampex tape deck and purple compressors would never be described as rubbish ...

[vincentvangogo]

Toe Rag (in London) has been following a similar philosophy since the mid 80's. It's a sign of the times that studios which record bands playing live is now considered daring.

[soundbarnfool]

Yes good stuff. I hear they have a Stocktronics reverb plate too, just like me. Why on earth does anyone need more than 8 tracks?

Inglewood SoundBarn

[FLUKE]

Yeah, I found this clip awhile ago , maybe you've already seen it.
So cool!

F.

YouTube - Daptone Records Studio

There are a few others, check them out!

[claend]

Sharon Jone's records are awesome, great music. IMO this guys are delivering one of the most raw, visceral and powerful soul/funk this days.

Didn't they have a funny story trying to sell one of their afro-beat bands as if they were actually from Africa?? Where did I read that.... ?

Cheers

[Brad McGowan]

Eight is enough for me.

I find it quite liberating to just deal with one or two mics on a drum kit. It's actually quite challenging to mike up, but the result is more satisfying if done right IMHO.

Brad

[ddageek]

I always said this about 4-8 track tape
"the less tracks the smarter you have to be it requires planing and the ability to determine whats a keeper. We have really been Dumbed down with digital and unlimited virtual tracks and import export" but we think we are smarter!

[claend]

Originally Posted by FLUKE

Yeah, I found this clip awhile ago , maybe you've already seen it.
So cool!

F.

YouTube - Daptone Records Studio

There are a few others, check them out!

Thanks for this!

[drBill]

Using 8 tracks to force creativity and economy is much more limiting than using your MIND to do the same thing. I'll stick with my DAW, use it's strong poiints, avoid it's pitfalls and meet you on the other side. Thanks. The end result is greater for me.

[u b k]

I've been doing this for a few months now, I can't say enough good things about it.

No fx, no comping, no autotune, no digital besides final peak limiting. 1/2" 8-track, 8 channel little desk, mix to Studer.

Behold, 8 tracks of love!

Sneaky Little Devil - Who Says This is Love


Gregory Scott - ubk

[jindrich]

FWIW, this is what Daptone Records is currently using in its main studio. With the 1" Ampex 440 multitrack and the late addition of those 12 Tube-Tech units, the studio got slightly more sophisticated, but the rest is still made of ordinary stuff. The Trident is a 65, which is not a 80 but a rather bland desk that can be bought for a few thousands on eBay. As for mics, nobody will be impressed by 57s, many Rode NT1-A, Radioshack SDC, Shure 55 or cheap russian ribbons. There's also an RCA-77 though.




In the end, it is NOT about the equipment, but how it is used. For instance, instead of using compressors, Gabe (the cool guy on glasses) likes to send heavily EQed signals to the Ampex, for the tape itself to work as a compressor/limiter/distorter in the desired frequencies. For instance, cutting low end so the higher freqs are compressed the most when hitting the tape, and then pull out the low freqs at mix time with the tube-tech EQs a-la-pultec.


8 tracks at mix time, often hard panned, plus a few more faders for tape echo, spring reverb and plate returns. Done.
.
.

[u b k]

Originally Posted by drBill

Using 8 tracks to force creativity and economy is much more limiting than using your MIND to do the same thing.

Indeed, that's the whole point.

Not everyone needs to be so rigorous about regimenting their workflow, just as not everyone needs to keep sweets out of the house to avoid overindulgence.

On a more practical note, my brain literally works differently when I have to interface with a computer. It impedes my ability to hear. Solution: no computer in the studio. Again, a deeply personal choice, one which isn't for everyone, but which I suspect would be good for more people if only thru even thought to try it.


Gregory Scott - ubk

[Sinewave]

I also find very remarkable the choice of equipment at Daptone's studio, which for the typical Gearslutz can only be described as "rubbish". There's no U47s or 251s, no Neves, no G+ or APIs, no PTHD, no Pultecs, Fairchilds or Bricastis, no walls of compressors nor any of the more fancy modern boutique stuff discussed here, and even less those Waves/JJP/CLA-plugins.

And how would people make any kind of money if they couldn't make and sell gear huh ?, and entire industry was born because of these gear, be careful of any revolution you might wanna spark Jindrich

[drBill]

Originally Posted by u b k

Again, a deeply personal choice,

Indeed. And one that would - unfortunately - castrate the music I choose to make. For some, it's all good, but one size does not fit all.

I prefer to use other methods to stimulate creativity and limit choices while still leaving critical options open.

Does anyone here honestly not believe that Daptone wouldn't jump at the chance of haviing the occasional 9 tracks or a U47 at their disposal?

[jindrich]

Originally Posted by drBill

Using 8 tracks to force creativity and economy is much more limiting than using your MIND to do the same thing. I'll stick with my DAW, use it's strong poiints, avoid it's pitfalls and meet you on the other side. Thanks. The end result is greater for me.

Yes, very nice thought..., the problem is that these days you have 20 tracks for drums, another 20 of vocal takes, 20 more for guitars, and another bunch for BGVs, Basses, Keys, etc, getting the total count over 100 tracks. Then you got the PTHD guy playing Tetris for a week in the computer with all that trying to make a performance out of it. And the result is Metallica souding like Kane West sounding like U2 sounding like Madonna.


On the other hand, listen to any Daptone record for comparison. Brilliant and energetic songs with a huge sound image and, god forbid, DYNAMICS! And they're done in days instead of months.

Originally Posted by drBill

Does anyone here honestly not believe that Daptone wouldn't jump at the chance of haviing the occasional 9 tracks or a U47 at their disposal?

They used to track with a 16 multitrack, now the simply 'downgraded' to the 8 track Ampex AG440

[drBill]

Originally Posted by jindrich

Yes, very nice thought..., the problem is that these days you have 20 tracks for drums, another 20 of vocal takes, 20 more for guitars, and another bunch for BGVs, Basses, Keys, etc, getting the total count over 100 tracks. Then you got the PTHD guy playing Tetris for a week in the computer with all that trying to make a performance out of it. And the result is Metallica souding like Kane West sounding like U2 sounding like Madonna.


On the other hand, listen to any Daptone record for comparison. Brilliant and energetic songs with a huge sound image and, god forbid, DYNAMICS! And they're done in days instead of months.

If that is truly your problem and not just an internet arguement, then I'd suggest you're working with the wrong people. I can guarantee you that the Daptone engineer could acomplish the same thing with Pro Tools if he wanted to.

Having physically imposed restrictions is perhaps best for the inexperienced or those with no self control (not speaking of anyone on this thread), but for those with creative vision, it's limiting.

[raal]

Originally Posted by u b k

I've been doing this for a few months now, I can't say enough good things about it.

No fx, no comping, no autotune, no digital besides final peak limiting. 1/2" 8-track, 8 channel little desk, mix to Studer.

Behold, 8 tracks of love!

Sneaky Little Devil - Who Says This is Love


Gregory Scott - ubk

nice sounds ubk.

[vernier]

Does anyone here honestly not believe that Daptone wouldn't jump at the chance of haviing the occasional 9 tracks or a U47 at their disposal?

I'm sure they could get a 16-track if they wanted.

[digitrax]

Ya know, I remember when I heard "The Wall" was tracked on 48 tracks and thinking "What a nightmare! It's a four-piece band; how could they ever need that many!" (I think I was using a Tascam 80-8 at the time).

Oh, if I'd only know what was in store! 8 may be a little slim for my taste now, but I swear if I didn't print subs or effects, I'd rarely ever need more than 16.

I'm glad to see Daptone (and the earlier White Stripes stuff) doin' it with 8!

[robertbonello]

Originally Posted by raal

nice sounds ubk.

+1!

[vincentvangogo]

Originally Posted by drBill

If that is truly your problem and not just an internet arguement, then I'd suggest you're working with the wrong people. I can guarantee you that the Daptone engineer could acomplish the same thing with Pro Tools if he wanted to.

Having physically imposed restrictions is perhaps best for the inexperienced or those with no self control (not speaking of anyone on this thread), but for those with creative vision, it's limiting.

How can you guarantee that?
From what I've read the Daptone guys don't think you can get the same distortion, compression etc without tape- why would they use it if they did? Re. more tracks - George Martin said he thought Sgt Pepper would have been worse if they'd had 24 track - but according to you he must lack creative vision. Use what works for you, but you shouldn't assume its right for everyone.

[quantumpsych]

I suppose only room mic would be alright, but they must sub mix live to mono which is very cool if you can commit. really, only four mics are necessary for drums, IMO; kick, snare, overhead L, overhead R.

micing hihat sucks ass, top snare is where all the punch is and thundering toms are cool, but absolutely not important... plus they f-up the two buss.

I love panning close-miced gtr cabs with distance ldcs and room mics to get depth and image, but mono gtrs can be great.

bass and main vox are always mono, and backup vox can be sub grouped live.

again, the songs need to be final draft/written or the band needs to be able to flesh things out on the fly... but yeah, eight is enough. you would not attract the next nickelback or top shelf a&r though.

[soundrick]

They do a very specific type of music and sound, and the equipment serves that. Hat's off.

What's so revolutionary though?? Seems like a niche to me.

I mean, yeah, it's cool, but proclaiming this as a panacea, or a way to "save" the music industry is ridiculous.

Not everyone wants their record to sound like it came out of the 70s, and there's NOTHING wrong with that either.

It would be nice to see more people on these boards that actually can appreciate modern production as well as "niche", "old school", "hipster" production. Saying one is better than the other is a little short-sighted, not to mention unrealistic.

[GlennR01]

Taking away the colors blue and yellow doesn't immediately qualify the painting as a masterpiece.