Mic Pre Chandler/Brent/API
mojava
Thread Starter
#1
20th May 2003
Old 20th May 2003
  #1
Gear maniac
 

Thread Starter
Mic Pre Chandler/Brent/API

Hi:

I am interested in opinions on the following micpres for drums.

- Brent Averill 1073 Clone
- Chandler LT1 1073 Clone
- API 512

Given that I have decent mics, room, etc. I am looking for a punchie drum sound. I would like your opiniong on the above pres.

thanks in advance.
#2
20th May 2003
Old 20th May 2003
  #2
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NathanEldred's Avatar
All very good stuff. Most important thing for me on drums is the input headroom on preamps, and when choosing between different flavors that are all excellent this is often the tie breaker for me in addition to high frequency or low frequency characteristics, which find their applicable place depending on how you are micing the drums, and which drums are getting mic'ed. If you are being relatively budget minded, also check out the Old School Audio microphone preamps, the Great River NV, and Geoff Daking's preamps. All have lots of headroom and are wide usage utility pieces. Good Luck.
#3
21st May 2003
Old 21st May 2003
  #3
member no 666
 
Fletcher's Avatar
 

Input "headroom" is somewhat important on drums... I think 'slew rate' [as in how fast is the amplifer] is a bit more important... or perhaps of equal importance... depending on what you're planning on for a "texture" within the context of the song...

As always... YMMV.
#4
21st May 2003
Old 21st May 2003
  #4
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Mike O's Avatar
 

Maybe give give these consideration? Or not.....
#5
21st May 2003
Old 21st May 2003
  #5
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NathanEldred's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by Fletcher
Input "headroom" is somewhat important on drums... I think 'slew rate' [as in how fast is the amplifer] is a bit more important... or perhaps of equal importance... depending on what you're planning on for a "texture" within the context of the song...

As always... YMMV.
Very true...it's funny though how subjective people's preferences are. For instance, a lot of people swear by API on kick and toms. Personally, I don't like them in that application, they are far too quick for my tastes. I prefer something fat and slow on kick and toms, and then something with a faster slew rate (like them) on overheads and snare specifically.
#6
22nd May 2003
Old 22nd May 2003
  #6
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 

i dont think of API's as being fast, not slow either... i think they are in the middle somewhere. GML i think is FAST. syteks are fast. avalon, millenia, hardy, grace. those strike me as fast. but it is all subjective isnt it.
#7
22nd May 2003
Old 22nd May 2003
  #7
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NathanEldred's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by alphajerk
i dont think of API's as being fast, not slow either... i think they are in the middle somewhere. GML i think is FAST. syteks are fast. avalon, millenia, hardy, grace. those strike me as fast. but it is all subjective isnt it.
They are more fast than slow to my ear. The ones you mentioned, are definitely faster though. I wonder how much of a part a transformer plays, if at all, in the slew rate? Or if an Op amp design is faster in general than a discrete one?
#8
22nd May 2003
Old 22nd May 2003
  #8
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 

i tend to hear them more slow... but what do i know? maybe its their bottom than throws me off, or something thats just kinda "round" about their sound. i guess they are kinda punchy but lose that INITIAL transient compared to others i have played with.... smoother?

funkin adjectives,
#9
22nd May 2003
Old 22nd May 2003
  #9
Lives for gear
 

I have not heard Chandler 1073's but I own Averill 1073's and API's. I also own the Great River MP2NV and MP2MH. IMHO they all work great on drums but my preference (most of the time)would be Averill 1073 on kick, API on snare, and either API or MP2MH on OH. The MP2NV comes in second for kick and snare for me. I hope this helps.
#10
22nd May 2003
Old 22nd May 2003
  #10
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Ol' Betsey's Avatar
In my not-so-experienced experience I tend to got for 1272/1073 on kick and API on O/H.

I'll use either on snare, depending on what I'm after.

The API's do seem to be more up-front and the Neve's rounder with more low end growl.

They will all sound GREAT though.

R.
#11
22nd May 2003
Old 22nd May 2003
  #11
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subspace's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by alphajerk
i dont think of API's as being fast, not slow either... i think they are in the middle somewhere. GML i think is FAST. syteks are fast. avalon, millenia, hardy, grace. those strike me as fast. but it is all subjective isnt it.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally posted by NathanEldred
They are more fast than slow to my ear. The ones you mentioned, are definitely faster though. I wonder how much of a part a transformer plays, if at all, in the slew rate? Or if an Op amp design is faster in general than a discrete one?
It's all relative, but the API 2520 is pretty slow compared to your average opamp, a NE5534 for example. Folks wanted something faster/ cleaner in the same form factor to upgrade their APIs with (sure, it sounds funny now...) and the Jensen 990 was born. A variant of the 990 is used in half the "faster" pres mentioned above. Two of the others use off the shelf ICs, not sure if the Avalon is all discrete transistor or not...
mojava
Thread Starter
#12
29th May 2003
Old 29th May 2003
  #12
Gear maniac
 

Thread Starter
pres revisited

I had a chance to A/B the Chandler LTD1 (1073 clone) and their EMI 2 channel copies (LTD2). The LTD 1 was used on the kick drum and it did not disappoint. the LTD2s were used on the overhead drum mics and vocals. Wow, they sounded fantastic open and full! I was very impressed. I also used the API 512c on the snare mic and wow what a punch and speed it packs!

Tried the George Dankin on a vocalist and I did not like it, seemed like a handkerchief had been put over her mouth..

Just my humble little experience today. Thanks to Jeff of VintaKing audio for driving out today from LA.

Quote:
Life is change. Growth is optional. We must choose wisely!
#13
29th May 2003
Old 29th May 2003
  #13
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 

the EMI pres are the TG2, the LTD-2 is the "neve" compressor.
#14
29th May 2003
Old 29th May 2003
  #14
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NathanEldred's Avatar
Re: pres revisited

Quote:
Originally posted by mojava


Tried the George Dankin on a vocalist and I did not like it, seemed like a handkerchief had been put over her mouth..
Are you talking about the Geoff Daking? I've never heard of George Dankin, do you have a link? If you are talking about the Geoff Daking microphone preamp, then there was something wrong with either the setup, your speakers, the mic, or the preamp. It is a very open sounding preamp that is much loved here.
mojava
Thread Starter
#15
29th May 2003
Old 29th May 2003
  #15
Gear maniac
 

Thread Starter
My apologies I am talking about Geof Daking preamps. I don't know what it was but it was used on a female vocalist using a Korby mic with a 67 capsule. I am writing it as best I remember and that is what everyone of us in the room heard.

Cheers

Quote:
Life is change. Growth is optional. We must choose wisely.
#16
30th May 2003
Old 30th May 2003
  #16
Gear maniac
 

Re: Re: pres revisited

[If you are talking about the Geoff Daking microphone preamp, then there was something wrong with either the setup, your speakers, the mic, or the preamp. It is a very open sounding preamp that is much loved here. [/B][/QUOTE]

Maybe they sound like Mackies,mmm this must mean
you sell dakings
#17
30th May 2003
Old 30th May 2003
  #17
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NathanEldred's Avatar
Re: Re: Re: pres revisited

Quote:
Originally posted by skip bitmin


Maybe they sound like Mackies,mmm this must mean
you sell dakings
Yes I do sell Daking, quite proud of that fact...I consider Geoff a friend and an excellent designer. I hope to own one of his consoles some day. Skip, since you view my opinion as a conflict of interest, let's ask some Daking owners their opinion of the preamps.

BTW Skip, In all true honesty and sincerity, I'm sorry that you were offended by my opinion of the 2-610. I still hold to it, but my opinion was about the box, not you.
#18
30th May 2003
Old 30th May 2003
  #18
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littledog's Avatar
 

The nice thing about doing business with companies like Daking is that Geoff Daking takes a hands on role. If you have any problems with his gear, don't be surprised if you get a personal phone call from Geoff to try and solve your problem.

I've never heard his preamps described as "muffled" before. Mine certainly isn't. Rather the opposite in fact - sometimes too bright for an edgy vocalist. Maybe if I didn't have "Slipperman-itus" when it comes to EQ...
#19
30th May 2003
Old 30th May 2003
  #19
Lives for gear
 

The Dakings are GREAT. It took me a long time before i finally found a pre/eq that i can honestly say i'm 100% satisfied with when it comes to tracking my drums.
I do mostly drum tracks for small record label and movie soundtracks and before owning my 8 Dakings, my prefered recording chain were renting API or Neve into 550's EQ to 2" or directly to ProTools.
The Dakings also kick serious butt on Electric guitar. I just tried their compressors....AWSOME !!!
#20
30th May 2003
Old 30th May 2003
  #20
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studjo's Avatar
My Dakings are really not muffled. As littledog said they can be too bright for some vocals (or are they too fast?) I love my preamps and the compresssor is killer...

vodoo I'm green with envie (8 Dakings holly shit )

Jo
#21
30th May 2003
Old 30th May 2003
  #21
Gear maniac
 

My apologies Nathen. I have never used Dakens but
from what I,ve read about them (going back a few years
and recently) they sound like they would be killer.
#22
31st May 2003
Old 31st May 2003
  #22
Gear maniac
 
Sir Bob's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by slipperman
[I like the GD compressor also. Fast as heck. I use it in front of the Atomic Squeezebox on vocals. Catches all the really fast stuff and allows me to use ridiculous GR on the ASB with much less audible 'action'.

SM. [/B]

Would someone please interpret for me, especally: "GR on the ASB with much less audible action."
#23
31st May 2003
Old 31st May 2003
  #23
Gear addict
 
Bobalou's Avatar
 

Hey Nathen,

I'm using a Tube mic (Groove Tubes Model 1b) for vocals.. I'm looking into the Great River ME-1NV (with either the speck ASC or down the road the new Great River EQ to be released around October)...Or the Daking mic pre/EQ .....what distinct differences will I hear between the ME-1NV as is and the Daking

thanks
#24
31st May 2003
Old 31st May 2003
  #24
Gear maniac
 

Hey Fletcher what happen with your evaluation of the Old School Audio? I went to you site and you don't seem to carry them so you don't like them?
#25
31st May 2003
Old 31st May 2003
  #25
Lives for gear
 
NathanEldred's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by Bobalou
Hey Nathen,

I'm using a Tube mic (Groove Tubes Model 1b) for vocals.. I'm looking into the Great River ME-1NV (with either the speck ASC or down the road the new Great River EQ to be released around October)...Or the Daking mic pre/EQ .....what distinct differences will I hear between the ME-1NV as is and the Daking

thanks
It's kind of hard to put in words what the distinct differences are between the two, but I or any dealer who wants you to have the right piece for your needs would be happy to get both in your hands for evaluation. YOUR ear is the only way to tell what the differences are and how they are applicable to you. Overall though, they are both tough sounding preamps, both Class A and discrete, with a nice low midrange clarity, lots of available gain and headroom, and a good amount of character (but a different character...Jensens sound different than Sowters). The Daking is based on the Trident A range, the NV is based on a 1073. Obviously both meat and potatoes 'classic' pieces of kit. The Daking seems to have more top in general than the NV. I've found that they are interchangeable sometimes, but usually not.
#26
31st May 2003
Old 31st May 2003
  #26
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NathanEldred's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by etherize
Hey Fletcher what happen with your evaluation of the Old School Audio? I went to you site and you don't seem to carry them so you don't like them?
I can't speak for Fletcher, but seeing that he just spoke highly of OSA in a gearslutz forum about a week ago, I'll assume the best in his opinion of them. The deal with OSA right now is that production is extremely limited. The dealers that are currently carrying the line (about 3 dealers right now in the USA), have a back order of about 7-10 days going, sometimes longer. Adding any more dealers right now would take that backorder time to about 3 weeks or so (maybe more). Not a fun proposition when the goal is to try and get the current dealers to a stocking position (and in the last 3 months we've had stock...for about a 24 hour period each time). Once production is stable, OSA can most likely expand distribution.
#27
31st May 2003
Old 31st May 2003
  #27
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cebolao's Avatar
 

hi everybody
whats the difference between BRENT AVERILL 1073 and CHANDLER LTD-1? they both are NEVE 1073 clones, right? however, BA costs 5500 $ for pair and CHANDLER is 4200 $ for pair. it's a big difference for me and i would like to know if BRENT is worth the extra money.
thanx in advance
mojava
Thread Starter
#28
1st June 2003
Old 1st June 2003
  #28
Gear maniac
 

Thread Starter
Chandler/BA

C:

The differences are in the EQ points. I just auditioned the Chandler LTD1 and If I am going to buy a clone I've decided to go for the extra frequency points. BTW, the BA 1073 clones are $4,500 a pair the 1084 clones are $5,500. If you are interested in a great deal for chandlers call Vintageking or Primal Gear, they will beat the price that you posted for the units.

BTW, I am going with the Chandler stuff..sounds great and I will save some dollars for other gear that I need. There's nothing wrong with BA stuff in fact it is excellent! The only down side to the Chandlers was that they did not "look like" a 1073 module..

That's it...but they sound fantastic!
jho
#29
1st June 2003
Old 1st June 2003
  #29
jho
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jho's Avatar
 

I have one of the original Chandler 1272 stereo pre's, the LTD-3 (serial # 11 !). It's not the ex which has the cheaper electronics I believe. I really like it on guitars, drums, keys etc. It's got a really agressive, forward sound.

Not my favorite on vocals, but for certain vocalists it can be cool too.
#30
1st June 2003
Old 1st June 2003
  #30
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Sir Bob
Would someone please interpret for me, especally: "GR on the ASB with much less audible action."
GR = gain reduction
ASB = atomic squeeze box (see http://www.mercenary.com/inauatsqbox.html )

In that conntext I think Slipperman was meaning he could use more extreme settings on the ASB without it over reacting to brief large peaks - having used a fast compressor in the chain before the ASB to tame them.

hope that helps,
'best
Tom
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