Good old-fashioned vocal sound w/out vintage issues?

[recky]

Hi Slutz,

I'm about to sell my U87Ai to get the perfect "personal" vocal mic for myself. I know the market for new mics and have heard a few, although getting hold of the more esoteric ones for testing purposes is impossible where I am based. I'm not particularly impressed with what I've checked out, as they all sound too "modern", too sizzly for my liking, e.g. the Brauner range.
I'm into a big, fat vintage vocal sound and would consider anything short of a vintage U47 due to its high cost/maintenance issues. My dream mic would be a Tele ELAM 251... I've got a bit of an Elvis Costello "character" voice, so a darker tone would be welcome.

I've used a Microtech-Gefell UM92.1s and quite liked it. What are U67s and vintage U87s like in general - big and fat?
Soundelux mics look pretty interesting, although over here in Germany they cost nearly as much as U47s, i.e. an arm and a left testicle...

At the end of the day, I'll spend as much as it takes, but not owning a commercial facility, I would think I could look at a wider range of options than someone who has to attract clients.

So, what are your suggestions?

Thanks a lot, guys and gals,

Recky

[gainreduction]

Might be over budget but sounds like a Korby with a 251 head is what you want. If I was to buy a "modern vintage mic" I would seriously take a look at Korby.

[recky]

Originally Posted by gainreduction

Might be over budget but sounds like a Korby with a 251 head is what you want. If I was to buy a "modern vintage mic" I would seriously take a look at Korby.

Do you have any idea where to purchase them here in Europe?

Cheers,

Recky

[Fletcher]

Originally Posted by recky

I'm into a big, fat vintage vocal sound and would consider anything short of a vintage U47 due to its high cost/maintenance issues. My dream mic would be a Tele ELAM 251... I've got a bit of an Elvis Costello "character" voice, so a darker tone would be welcome.

There aren't a whole lot of lg. diaphragm condenser mics I know of that are darker than a Telefunken ELA M 251 E... so you might want to check out something like a Coles 4040 [or 4038 if you're looking for darker still].

Not only are they less expensive than all of the mics you mentioned, but from your description, I think they might come close to the net result you're trying to achieve. If you need a little extra "sparkle" to them, they both take EQ exceptionally well... so something like a little 12kHz shelf with a really good EQ should help to bring out the little bit of way high tippy top you might desire.

The other cool thing about them being less expensive than most of the excellent lg. diaphragm condenser mics [both valve and many solid state] is that you may very well have budget left over to add a mic-pre to the signal path that will really allow you to capture the essence and textures you're trying to achieve for your vocal tone.

Best of luck with the search!!

[recky]

Thanks for your reply, Fletcher (and other gearslutz)! Your suggestions/comments are always welcome. Interesting, never thought of ribbons...

What are ewes' opinions on the Lawson recreation of the ELAM251? Sounds like a bargain, considering the current exchange rate to the US dollar. Is it a close representation, tone-wise?
I also keep coming back to the U67, provided a good one can be found for testing. Must be a pretty fat, dark mic. Unfortunately, I've never had the privilege of using one. Is it a liability to own, like the U47? Opinions?

Cheers,

Recky

[GYang]

Originally Posted by recky

Do you have any idea where to purchase them here in Europe?

Cheers,

Recky

They have dealer in Norway, but probably the shortest way is to order directly via their site.
I think that 251's from Korby is fantastic mic and on the top you can always add additional capsules (47 or 67 that are equally fantastic in their own way) or ask Korby to tweak the sound of existing capsule in case that you prefer another flavor.

[u b k]

a coles into a telefunken would ooze nostalgia.

have you explored using a smooth ldc and a gentle lowpass?


gregoire
del ubik

[recky]

Originally Posted by u b i k

a coles into a telefunken would ooze nostalgia.

have you explored using a smooth ldc and a gentle lowpass?


gregoire
del ubik

Well, I'm LOOKING for a smooth LDC!!! :-)

[chetatkinsdiet]

A smooth, dark and retro sounding vocal mic for an elvis costello type voice? As Fletcher mentioned, I'd reach for a nice ribbon first. The Coles are a good choice as you'll probably find them for less than over here in the States. Another one to check out is the AEA 84. It's sort of an RCA type mic. I think I prefer it as a vocal mic to the Coles. The Royer is a nice ribbon as well, but seems to have a more modern, or upfront sound...which is what you DON'T want.

Heck, I'd even suggest a nice dynamic like the SM7 with a great pre. Could be the one...you never know. Or, again, in your neck of the woods, an older Beyer M88 might be something to look into.

later,
m

[charlienyc]

Originally Posted by chetatkinsdiet

Heck, I'd even suggest a nice dynamic like the SM7 with a great pre. Could be the one...you never know. Or, again, in your neck of the woods, an older Beyer M88 might be something to look into.

yeah m! you read my mind Try the Beyer M88 or M69, Sennheiser MD421, and Shure SM57. the EV RE20 is a great yet underrated vocal mic too. yeah i bet a U67 would fit you well too. just don't discount older dynamics & ribbons. they might hit the spot at 1/10th the cost of a vintage tube mic and with little maintenance fuss.

[Bishbashbosh]

I'm fascinated by the suggestions for the use of the Coles as a vocal mic...... I've not seen it used for vocals...... It's figure 8 only isn't it (?).... how much more 'room' sound would be apparent than with a LDC in cardiod? Do you get much (any) proximity effect?
I love the Coles as overheads and room mics, but I've never used them 'up close' on anything..... you have me intrigued!!

[Beech]

With the greatest of respect to all the previous responses you've recieved I've made repeated attempts to use ribbon mics on vocals. That includes the Coles 4038, the AEA 44 and Royer R122. But I always set up another mic as well, usually a Soundelux 251. As much as I try to give the ribbon a chance, I always prefer the 251 (or a U87). The Coles 4040 could be worth a look as it's reportedly brighter then then the older 4038. Check out Funkyjunk in Milan...they might even give you a demo model.

The Korby system looks interesting though. After all, it's mimicing four vintage mics to the best of my knowledge. Good luck in your search!

[mml]

I've had great results with an EV RE-20 and a Telefunken V76 run into an 1176 for limiting slightly on the way into a DBX 165a. You should really look into dynamics for a smoother tone. Another versatile mic for vox like you describe is a Sennheiser 441. It all depends on where your midrange sizzle lies and if the mic reacts positively or negatively to that sizzle. You might look into a Horch U47 clone too.

[Fletcher]

Originally Posted by Beech

With the greatest of respect to all the previous responses you've recieved I've made repeated attempts to use ribbon mics on vocals. That includes the Coles 4038, the AEA 44 and Royer R122. But I always set up another mic as well, usually a Soundelux 251. As much as I try to give the ribbon a chance, I always prefer the 251 (or a U87). The Coles 4040 could be worth a look as it's reportedly brighter then then the older 4038.

With all due respect, I have found that a good EQ and a wee tad itty bit of 10 or 12kHz shelf goes a long way to getting a ribbon to produce a tone that creates a hardon so stiff it could possibly cut glass... but as always... YMMV.

[Matt Grondin]

If you want to hear an amazing vocal sound from a Coles 4038, check out the Royer Labs Demo cd and the track by Sixpence None The Richer engineered by Russ Long... I guess it's on the cd because they used Royers for the guitars, but the lead vox is a 4038 and it's just amazing. At least, I think that's what I remember it being. I know it's an old thread, but good luck. I'm in the same boat right now.

[xavi]

I think these guys do Korby in Europe - www.asapeurope.com

[Jamz]

When you mention "good old-fashioned" sound I have to go with Fletcher on this one. Back in a day Sinatra, Crosby, Nat King Cole, Sam Cooke included ribbons in their recordings.

Ribbons tend to be darker and smoother, a little grain in the mids when pushed. They don't have the hyped top end many LDC mics have. That could be interpreted as lacking clarity....your call. Mic placement/proximity and as mentioned a tad of top end EQ when needed can work nicely on the right vocalist. As with every mic ribbons may not work for every situation or singer. Since you're looking for a voice specific (you're own) mic ribbons are worth checking out.

I've used the Royer 121, AEA R84 and RCA 77dx for vocals. They've worked well with certain singers. Especially, those with good mic technique. I find ribbons to be a little more sensitive (less forgiving) regarding placement than most LDC mics.

Sometimes I will place auralex approximately 9" or so behind the microphone depending on the room and the sound we're going for. Otherwise, I really like the slight ambience the figure of 8 picks up in the recording.

In general, Nowadays there are more microphone manufacturers to choose from without necessarily having to go "vintage". Good luck and enjoy the search.

[Ollie]

Nice sound - Get a M49: beautiful mids, rounded top, and big lows. Yes it is Vintage, but they are not really a headache

[Bat Head Sound]

How about a Crowley and Tripp Proscenium. That's pretty dark and smooth. The SE Gemini is really dark, certainly not my first mic choice.