Burl B2 DAC

[u b k]

Originally Posted by PlugHead

Unless you're using it to run your analog mixdown (2 buss) thru, what good is listening back to rolled off highs and 'tape-like' sounds going to do for your mixes?

Just want to gingerly step in and say that any notion that Burl converters roll off high end is simply misinformed. Burl has quite an extended and open top end, it just happens to have a silky texture rather than a sterile one.

Here's what I find most interesting, though. Michael said this:

Clarity is great, it sounds wider, deeper and more dynamic than other converters I have in the studio

And everyone is somehow taking that to mean the sound is colored or tape-like. But nothing in that description says anything remotely like that. If anything, it sounds like the box he's describing gives a more accurate and/or detailed picture of the sound coming thru.

My recommendation is to actually listen to these converters, both the a/d and the d/a, before jumping to any conclusions about what they do, how they sound, and what applications they're useful for. It is actually possible for a d/a to be both euphonic and accurate, to allow you to enjoy what you're hearing and also increase your ability to make decisions that translate and improve upon what you could do using converters that are perhaps perceived as more neutral when, in fact, they are simply a different colored lens thru which to view the signal.


Gregory Scott - ubk

[Jim Williams]

I'm rebuilding some Euphonix MA 703's here now. Their converters are not high end but now the analog stuff is. I used some class A opamps with heat sinks. The power supply is to be replaced with one that can deliver the extra current.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

[Doc Mixwell]

Originally Posted by RKrizman

I'm not sure I get it. So you have this great sound coming through your monitors from the Burl, but your mix itself will not have those qualities when heard elsewhere. So aren't you just kidding yourself?

You make a valid point RK, and the reference quality in output of a digital mixer is HUGE to the outcome. Your point is valid surely, [and realistically one of the main concerns facing any digital mixing environment] if you work inside a computer and always bounce the digital mix down that is. It is my experience and belief that every single piece of audio equipment [ADA converters included] will affect my movement as an engineer from stem to stern. Surely you are correct in the fact that a digital mix NOT BEING RESOLVED by a DAC, means it will ALWAYS be different than what that DA is allowed to represent the entire time you are balancing and working the audio, but this is true for EVERY DAC on the planet in my experience, and not just DA's that use discrete analog topology with 123 DB dynamic range, with what seems to be +28-30 output headroom.

There is no DA that I have heard [getting pretty close to insane money $$$] that doesn't have any opinion on the receiving input. It is a degree of the receiver, and not a finite truth, simply becasue these analog topologies do something to the audio that "resolves" or decodes it to analog which is what your ears recognize. I don't "hear" digital. I hear the result of it though a decoding process. ADA Converters are ENCODERS AND DECODERS. Though there are some definite silly, silly boxes I have heard that are MORE than capable of DECODING for digital reference, though AGAIN, I think they all have a unique foot print that is defined by your movement using them. In the end, I think there is some deviation of how people interpret the paths that exist with our recording/monitor electronics for all digital mixers alike and all tape machines coupled to behemoth analog consoles. There is some serious technical reasoning that supports the theory of having a D/A with higher dynamic range and larger output ceiling - in that it will be far more representative of the voltages that a digital mixer is ultimately capable of. Many, many, many D/A's are not even close in this regard, and they even lose the bottom octave to boot!!!

Another suggestive idea on the "are we all kidding ourselves" theory here -- is that by having more pristine playback electronics, you would you think someone would have raised their hand in the hey day of the tape recorder to the issue, [the sync head and associated electronics being different animals than the playback head and playback electronics of any given recorder], as when a tape machine played back tape from the repro head, someone, would have uttered "hey - I sound different now, what did you do?" The bottom line is the electronics are more "pristine" on the playback side, which certainly helps your cause of sounding good. You might now raise the question of "why do I want to sound good" [a thought which kind of seems intertwined into your concern] and we can debate that one in another thread. All I can tell you is that the Burl B2 ADA is serious hardware, without anything gimmicky to its design. It resembles using the best analog 2-track recorders input and repro stages without any tape formulation in sight.

Unless you run it through the Burl as an effects device. Is that the idea? So you'd send your mix out through the Burl D/A then back into PT through,...what?,....then monitor the output of Protools through....?

How are you guys actually using this thing?

-R

I would patch the output of the DA back into the AD, and mix using digital mixer, but capture the balance of my audible mix somewhere, as an encoded file, and not leave it to the digital gremlins to resolve it elsewhere without the hardware that I used to balance the audio.

Originally Posted by PlugHead

What he said ^^^

Unless you're using it to run your analog mixdown (2 buss) thru, what good is listening back to rolled off highs and 'tape-like' sounds going to do for your mixes? It's not like that chocolaty goodness will affect the mix except for your observation of it?

Puzzled...

Now, you've got me puzzled, as this I don't understand....

Of course it will cause you to move in a certain direction!

But who said the Burl was "chocolaty", and who said it sounds like tape? NO IT DOES NOT! The AD sounds like HUGE input headroom and dynamic range, and custom transformers in front of high speed digital. The DA has no iron but uses a discrete topology, so its with similar hugeness to the output. Does this hugeness hinder your audio? It won't get in my way, having experienced the sound in our room.

On a final note, the High's are definitely not "rolled off" with Burl ADA, nor are the lows. You can designate the amount of transformer saturation, but that only causes more harmonic ring and overtones to the HF's which surely changes them, but doesn't cut them down like trees in the forest.

• Frequencty resonse at 48kHz sample rate is 10Hz to 22kHz, +/- 0.1dB
• Frequencty resonse at 96kHz sample rate is 10Hz to 46kHz, +/- 0.1dB
• Frequencty resonse at 192kHz sample rate is 10Hz to 94kHz, +/- 0.1dB

[RKrizman]

Thanks for the thoughtful analysis.

I'm certainly not pooh-poohing the idea of using the best D/A you can going to your monitors to get the most meaningful and detailed representation of what you're doing. Just like having good monitor speakers. Furthermore, as a composer my standard of excellence is pleasure. I spend long hours working in front of these speakers every day and I want it to sound and feel as good as possible, cuz that's why I'm doing it, and that feeling is the only way I know when I'm done. The only question in this scenario is translateability, just like with monitor speakers. I'm assuming that wouldn't be a problem unless there is actually some sort of hype going on that would be missing in the final mix if you don't print it.

To phrase this in a more positive way, the question becomes, in addition to it's value as a primo monitor reference D/A, does the converter itself add any sort of mojo that you would want to capture in your mix itself, i.e. by printing it back.

I create my mixes using BTD in Protools, but often I go out and back using the 192's to hit some compression or eq. Just thinking out loud, would it be best to use this D/A as a way of going out to the analog outboard, or to use it to monitor the final output from PT?

-R

[mwagener]

Originally Posted by u b k

Just want to gingerly step in and say that any notion that Burl converters roll off high end is simply misinformed. Burl has quite an extended and open top end, it just happens to have a silky texture rather than a sterile one.

Here's what I find most interesting, though. Michael said this:

Clarity is great, it sounds wider, deeper and more dynamic than other converters I have in the studio

And everyone is somehow taking that to mean the sound is colored or tape-like. But nothing in that description says anything remotely like that. If anything, it sounds like the box he's describing gives a more accurate and/or detailed picture of the sound coming thru.

My recommendation is to actually listen to these converters, both the a/d and the d/a, before jumping to any conclusions about what they do, how they sound, and what applications they're useful for. It is actually possible for a d/a to be both euphonic and accurate, to allow you to enjoy what you're hearing and also increase your ability to make decisions that translate and improve upon what you could do using converters that are perhaps perceived as more neutral when, in fact, they are simply a different colored lens thru which to view the signal.


Gregory Scott - ubk

I totally agree with Gregory. In no way does the B2 "change" the sound it receives, it just reproduces an accurate digital picture of what it is being fed, more so than other converters I have tried.

[cinealta]

Originally Posted by Roc Mixwell

We've yet to lay hands on the B2 DAC. Can't wait to hear it in action though.

Originally Posted by Roc Mixwell

I can't wait to preview this righteously inspiring device.

Looking forward to your impressions about the Burl DAC, in direct comparison to the Bricasti M1 prototype, which you spoke highly of recently.

[Doc Mixwell]

Originally Posted by cinealta

Looking forward to your impressions about the Burl DAC, in direct comparison to the Bricasti M1 prototype, which you spoke highly of recently.

As Plush would say;

"Oh My Root"

[Greg B]

For those in the Northwest, come out to Portland tomorrow for the BURL Event and try out the BURL AD/DA converters and preamps!

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