PA speakers _ are they hi-fi ?

[Aisle 6]

PA speakers are not made as a replacement for studio monitors, period. Certainly not the likes of EVs200's...:face palm:

PA speakers are usually high SPL designs. Therefore the drivers need to trade off efficiency for good linear motion stability etc. Whereas most studio monitors have a much lower sensitivity and are very efficient. Although my ATC's do buck this trend a little.

The room cubic volume required for a PA speaker would exclude most rooms from being adequate.

Plus many, many more reasons.

[ginetto61]

[QUOTE=tkr;7055403][QUOTE=ginetto61;7054042][B]
No.
What I am saying is that it is extremely unlikely that you will find any pa- speakers which will fulfill your needs in a hifi-system, at least within your price range.
There are some "crossover brands" , such as B&W, ATC and Dunlavy, but these are expensive.
Active monitors may be more up your alley. I use a set of KRK Rokit 8 in my small hifi-system. They are a bit bass-heavy but sound OK.
But if you are looking for very good value for the money, you will find that pro audio digital eqipment, i.e. ad/da, will give you that.
In other words, I think that you are looking at the wrong components if you want to use pro equipment.
yours tkr

thank you again Tkr !
but I do not understand perfectly what you intend for "pro audio digital equipment"
I intend to use an active digital crossover in the near future
But if I go with active monitors it will not needed.
So I think that the first choice to do are the speakers.
I understand your recommendation for active studio speakers
Thank you again
Kind regards,

gino

[ginetto61]

[QUOTE=Aisle 6;7055956]PA speakers are not made as a replacement for studio monitors, period. Certainly not the likes of EVs200's...:face palm:

PA speakers are usually high SPL designs. Therefore the drivers need to trade off efficiency for good linear motion stability etc. Whereas most studio monitors have a much lower sensitivity and are very efficient. Although my ATC's do buck this trend a little.

The room cubic volume required for a PA speaker would exclude most rooms from being adequate.

Plus many, many more reasons.

Hi ! all started by the consideration that Klipsch speakers originally were for PA purposes
Abd still now they share some traits with PA speakers
High eff, horn loaded compression drivers, ecc. ecc.
And they are very well regarded as stereo speakers as well
But I see ... no place fo PA speakers in home ...
Thanks and regards,

gino

[tkr]

[QUOTE=ginetto61;7056040][QUOTE=tkr;7055403][QUOTE=ginetto61;7054042][B]



but I do not understand perfectly what you intend for "pro audio digital equipment"
I intend to use an active digital crossover in the near future

I am simply pointing out to you that if you want to try out pro audio equipment in your hifi, then speakers may not be the best place to start.

On the other hand, pro audio da/ad, combined with digital crossovers and digital eq, give great value for the money compared to the audiophile market.
yours tkr

[loujudson]

I have a slightly different response. I do live sound and home studio and a lot of live recording, which mixes the two.
For all but long-throw outdoor gigs I get excellent results live with 2 or 4 Bose 802s - lots of people laugh or frown about Bose but the 802s sound very good and no performer or audient has ever complained when hearing my live sound mixes! Even R&B Bands in parking lot situations, with a pair of 15" subs. You do need the subs for outdoors.

And, the first studio I worked in professionally had a pair of Bose 901s, turned around as direct radiators, and it was full and rich and clear and detailed, with extended response measured and calibrated for 20 to 20k +or- 1 dB.

So the answer is yes, it is possible. But not with line arrays or those "cheap" 2 ways. Bose 802s are $1800 the pair in USA.

[Pred80r]

Originally Posted by Aisle 6

PA speakers are not made as a replacement for studio monitors, period. Certainly not the likes of EVs200's...:face palm:

I can't believe you just used EV SX200's in the same sentence as PA speakers. First, they don't even make them anymore...Second, they are plastic boxes on sticks.

Think more along the lines of L Acoustics, D&B, Meyer, Vertec and EAW for PA speakers...much higher quality and much more flat response than EV anything. The Vertecs are questionable but all the rest of these boxes are truly capable of LOW THD, HIGH signal to noise ratio, FLAT response and great levels of clarity. I would EASILY have a high end listening room of with 5 Kudo's or better yet Kara's per side with some SB28's if I had the money and the space/height.

[Aisle 6]

Originally Posted by Pred80r

I can't believe you just used EV SX200's in the same sentence as PA speakers. First, they don't even make them anymore...Second, they are plastic boxes on sticks.

Hey man do not crucify me. I did not bring them up. It was in Faramita's earlier post

Copied from Faramita's post.
"I have some EV speakers, I think they are s 200. I do not know if they pass for the cheap plastic boxes, they were dear enough. They sound pretty good especially with a sub. Rival many a "studio monitor" I heard in many studios."

I personally would never use EV S200's in any application. I work on L'Acoustic, D&B, NEXO, JBL vertec, KV2Audio regularly. I agree with you. If you go back and read the posts the S200 thing was someone else, hence my comment of them not being appropriate. My position is that any PA would really not be up to the task for a myriad of reasons of which I brought up in my previous post.

In the studio I run ATC monitors and outside the studio I use all of the big rigs stated above. Each has their application for very specific reasons and never the twain shall meet.

[Pred80r]

Originally Posted by Aisle 6

Hey man do not crucify me. I did not bring them up. It was in Faramita's earlier post

Copied from Faramita's post.
"I have some EV speakers, I think they are s 200. I do not know if they pass for the cheap plastic boxes, they were dear enough. They sound pretty good especially with a sub. Rival many a "studio monitor" I heard in many studios."

I personally would never use EV S200's in any application. I work on L'Acoustic, D&B, NEXO, JBL vertec, KV2Audio regularly. I agree with you. If you go back and read the posts the S200 thing was someone else, hence my comment of them not being appropriate. My position is that any PA would really not be up to the task for a myriad of reasons of which I brought up in my previous post.

I am sorry, I must have missed that when glancing through the posts...you are officially off of the cross.

Farmita...you need to hear a well tuned, high end PA, the difference will be astounding.

[Aisle 6]

Originally Posted by Pred80r

I am sorry, I must have missed that when glancing through the posts...you are officially off of the cross.

thanks man. I feel better now. ; )

[Duke]

Klipsch and several smaller home audio speaker manufacturers use PA or PA-style drivers in their speakers, so in theory at least some crossover is possible. For a while I offered a "multi-role loudspeaker" that was either a home audio speaker in "utilititarian chic" finish, or a small bass guitar/keyboard/compact PA speaker with a little extra TLC in the crossover section. The concept was not a commercial success.

Just from what I know about the extra expense required to get smooth native response from prosound speakers (either in manufacturing the drivers, or in crossover componentry), vs the cost of outboard equalization, I'm not surprised that PA cab manufacturers don't break their necks trying to build cheap PA cabs that have audiophile-approved smooth response. Not saying there's no such beast, but the inevitable tradeoffs (in decibels-per-dollar, for instance) might not result in a competitive product.

[Jeff D.]

For home use I've enjoyed some of the speakers deemed obsolete in studios... these are sometimes cheap to buy and sound better to me than most if not all audiophile speakers in their price range.

For example 80's U.S.A. made studio speakers like JBL 4311, JBL 4312, JBL 4425, UREI 809, KRK 7000 can all be found for $250 USD/pr (well maybe not the 809's).

Real studio speakers had to perform in their day and still sound pretty good. Also parts are available for most, especially JBL.

I'd avoid the home brands that write "studio monitor" in their name like Polk, Infinity, etc.

I am currently enjoying KRK7000's in my vinyl rig at home, and JBL 4425's in the shop. My studio speakers sound quite sterile in comparison!

Hope that helps!

[jtwrace]

As an audiophile I think you can get good sound from PA's in a home enviroment. Like anything they must be properly setup with the proper room.

I use GedLee Abbeys with four subs. Two subs are of bandpass design and two are servo controlled. The mains are run full range and the four subs are blended into the mains.

It makes for a spectacular measurement and sounds first class IMO. As you can see this is NOT smoothed and taken from the listening position. I use HolmImpulse with a Cross Spectrum calibrated ECM mic and M-Audio MobilePre.

http://gedlee.com/

[rydan]

Funktion one PA:s are very much HiFi. Best PA system I've ever heard.

Bad choice if you intend to save money, though...

[mastermix]

An excellent sounding system is made by ADR Audio... made in Slovenia. The Stone Pony in Asbury Park, NJ uses them on their Summer Stage... I've heard Umphrey's McGee, moe. and Stone Temple Pilots through them, sounded awesome. Asbury Audio is the sound company.

[ddageek]

PA, Studio monitors, consumer, they are all speakers . Rather than ask a bunch of people what you might like , go out and listen to what you can and find what works for you!
I can find examples of all 3 types that suck, I can find examples of each that don't !
If all your doing is listening at home, they are not tools, but toys . So find what you like!

That said I know a guy who is very happy with EAW jf100s Sb150s Ashly protea cover and Adcom Gfa555s.

[ginetto61]

[QUOTE=ddageek;7060219]
PA, Studio monitors, consumer, they are all speakers .
Rather than ask a bunch of people what you might like , go out and listen to what you can and find what works for you!
I can find examples of all 3 types that suck, I can find examples of each that don't !
If all your doing is listening at home, they are not tools, but toys . So find what you like!
That said I know a guy who is very happy with EAW jf100s Sb150s Ashly protea cover and Adcom Gfa555s.

Hi ! thank you very much for your kind and helpful reply.
Your following words have made me thinking

If all your doing is listening at home, they are not tools, but toys . So find what you like!

I think you are perfectly right.
And I apologize to be too serious about this.
In the end for me is just an hobby. I am not a professional who has to earn his leaving with this tool.
Sometimes I have been more obsessed by the equipment while I should be obsessed by the music instead.
But I have to say one word on my defense.
That I thought about working in the audio professional sector.
But I went for a safer solution, that unfortunately I do not like very much : oil & gas sector. What a pain ...

Audio firstly and then video have always been my passions

This said, I like very very much the model EAW jf100 you mention
Lately I read something, without understanding too much, about waveguides as the better type of horns.
This is an issue that intrigues me enormously expecially after I listened to a pair of german speakers called Acapella from Germany at an audio fair in Milan Italy.
I did not like particularly the bass, but the mid-high performance was sensational. I have never heard a choir with that power, cleanliness, realism ... very very impressive
So I am pretty sold on horn loaded drivers.
And the model that you mention seems to me adopting a waveguide, which is considered the best type of horn by many (less colour to the sound and extremely clean and powerful).
I will look for them.
And if I will not find them or I could not afford them well .. it's just an hobby

Thanks again and kind regards,

gino

[Wayne]

Lansing Heritage Forums
Poke around in here for while. Nothing wrong with having a place for the joy of high efficiency!

[Unique]

Real world main studio control room has had Turbosound 3-way Floodlight and TSW-721 bass as free standing main speakers:

http://www.recordproduction.com/real-world-studios1.jpg

Much recently Dynaudio M4 setup almost as "near fields":

http://www.recordproduction.com/mike...-studios-3.jpg

PA speakers especially 3-way system can have equally high quality sound as 3-way large studio monitors with probably another 10dB headroom. Proper room setup integration and mandatory in-room tuning are required.

Earlier mentioned L Acoustics V-DOSC and today K1 are truely high end loudspeaker systems offering large studio monitor quality for large venue or arena.

Already L Acoustics EX-115 or much older MTD-115 could be quality portable studio monitor for live recording or remote location mixing session (easier than moving around bulky Dynaudio M3).

"Old school" folks would not mind mixing on:

- L Acoustics V-DOSC, ARCS, EX-115 and SB-218
- Turbosound Floodlight (even Flashlight) and TSW-721
- Nexo TS-2400 or PS-15 and LS-2000
- EAW KF-850 and SB-850
- Stage Accompany Blue Box

[Unique]

Originally Posted by kosmokrator

The best PA-rig I personally know is the V-dosc.
I don't know your house, but I'm sure my girlfriend would not let me have them as a stereo home system:

Real world main studio control room has had Turbosound 3-way Floodlight and TSW-721 bass as free standing main speakers:

http://www.recordproduction.com/real-world-studios1.jpg

Much recently Dynaudio M4 setup almost as "near fields":

http://www.recordproduction.com/mike...-studios-3.jpg

PA speakers especially 3-way system can have equally high quality sound as 3-way large studio monitors with probably another 10dB headroom. Proper room setup integration and mandatory in-room tuning are required.

Earlier mentioned L Acoustics V-DOSC and today K1 are truely high end loudspeaker systems offering large studio monitor quality for large venue or arena.

Already L Acoustics EX-115 or much older MTD-115 could be quality portable studio monitor for live recording or remote location mixing session (easier than moving around bulky Dynaudio M3).

"Old school" folks would not mind mixing on:

- L Acoustics V-DOSC, ARCS, EX-115 and SB-218
- Turbosound Floodlight (even Flashlight) and TSW-721
- Nexo TS-2400 or PS-15 and LS-2000
- EAW KF-850 and SB-850
- Stage Accompany Blue Box

[Unique]

Originally Posted by kosmokrator

The best PA-rig I personally know is the V-dosc.
I don't know your house, but I'm sure my girlfriend would not let me have them as a stereo home system:

Real world main studio control room has had Turbosound 3-way Floodlight and TSW-721 bass as free standing main speakers:

http://www.recordproduction.com/real-world-studios1.jpg

Much recently Dynaudio M4 setup almost as "near fields":

http://www.recordproduction.com/mike...-studios-3.jpg

PA speakers especially 3-way system can have equally high quality sound as 3-way large studio monitors with probably another 10dB headroom. Proper room setup integration and mandatory in-room tuning are required.

Earlier mentioned L Acoustics V-DOSC and today K1 are truely high end loudspeaker systems offering large studio monitor quality for large venue or arena.

Already L Acoustics EX-115 or much older MTD-115 could be quality portable studio monitor for live recording or remote location mixing session (easier than moving around bulky Dynaudio M3).

"Old school" folks would not mind mixing on:

- L Acoustics V-DOSC, ARCS, EX-115 and SB-218
- Turbosound Floodlight or Flashlight and TSW-721
- Nexo TS-2400 or PS-15 and LS-2000
- EAW KF-850 and SB-850
- Stage Accompany Blue Box

Lot of good souvernirs with these systems

[ginetto61]

Exceptional performances can be obtained by active, passive, PA, monitor, hifi, audiophile speakers provided that they are well designed and manufactured.
Maybe the listening distance from the speakers is the only real discriminating parameter
Using a huge PA speaker for near field listening cannot give the correct perspective
The near, mid and long fields ask for different loudspeakers.
So the listening room always rules
On this basis ... I am afraid a monitoring system based on PA speakers will remain a dream .. just a dream ...
Anyway thank you all so much for your advice and suggestions
I have always had an enourmous interest for the Ferraris of the
speakers
Even if I have to drive a city car
Regards,

gino

P.S. a case of speakers not fit to the purpose (i.e. personal computer speakers)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpL-Fo-Lw64

[Pred80r]

Originally Posted by Unique

Real world main studio control room has had Turbosound 3-way Floodlight and TSW-721 bass as free standing main speakers:

http://www.recordproduction.com/real-world-studios1.jpg

Much recently Dynaudio M4 setup almost as "near fields":

http://www.recordproduction.com/mike...-studios-3.jpg

PA speakers especially 3-way system can have equally high quality sound as 3-way large studio monitors with probably another 10dB headroom. Proper room setup integration and mandatory in-room tuning are required.

Earlier mentioned L Acoustics V-DOSC and today K1 are truely high end loudspeaker systems offering large studio monitor quality for large venue or arena.

Already L Acoustics EX-115 or much older MTD-115 could be quality portable studio monitor for live recording or remote location mixing session (easier than moving around bulky Dynaudio M3).

"Old school" folks would not mind mixing on:

- L Acoustics V-DOSC, ARCS, EX-115 and SB-218
- Turbosound Floodlight or Flashlight and TSW-721
- Nexo TS-2400 or PS-15 and LS-2000
- EAW KF-850 and SB-850
- Stage Accompany Blue Box

Lot of good souvernirs with these systems

You haven't heard the KARA's yet, even the KUDOS are exceptional to the VDosc in quality...for SPL though the Vdosc have yet to be bettered. The true VDOSC implemented by Ratt and L Acoustics have an SPL that as of yet is unmatched and as we have all learned here at GS, louder is better. For true audio clarity and response the KUDOS rig was a step up. I went to a demo at LAcoustics in Oxnard and I can tell you that even though the KARA rig cannot produce the sheer SPL of the Vdosc, they are remarkably clearer with less THD and a flatter response. The KARA rigs are serious audiophile PA's...