Pro Tools certification

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by Deviated

Its worth it if you want to learn quckly without pulling your hair out reading books an watching youtube videos struggling thru all that pro tools has to offer.
The classes move fast and the tests are hard once you get past the 100s. Most of the cert. bashers could not pass.
I am certified and would recomend it for anyone serious about learnig pro tools quickly.
It will not make you a great mixer, get you a job(it could help), or give you any studio experience. But you will know pro tools inside and out. The rest is up to you.

I'm a cert basher. For sure...... yet somehow manage to do well.


wouldnt pass? my buttocks......

Let me repeat it agin - there is nothing to Protools or any other DAW that reading the darn manual wont get you through!!

[Deviated]

Originally Posted by narcoman

I'm a cert basher. For sure...... yet somehow manage to do well.


wouldnt pass? my buttocks......

Let me repeat it agin - there is nothing to Protools or any other DAW that reading the darn manual wont get you through!!

Ok dude. whatever you say

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by Deviated

Ok dude. whatever you say

Ok dude whatever you say? Blammo..... and duh!

[neslroble]

Certification is expensive. Otherwise there is nothing wrong with it. You learn some shortcuts and get familiar with the software. It doesn't teach you how to do anything. You need projects to learn how to use PT. So weather you are learning at home or in a school find a project and work it to the end. You can record a TV show and replace all the effects and backgrounds or replace the music. Or record your friends or yourself in the bathroom. In any case, until you do the work you will not be worth anything to any employer. And standing over someones shoulder will not do it either. You have to spend the time , make the mistakes and learn the tricks.

[dhiltonlittle]

Originally Posted by neslroble

Certification is expensive. Otherwise there is nothing wrong with it. You learn some shortcuts and get familiar with the software. It doesn't teach you how to do anything. You need projects to learn how to use PT. So weather you are learning at home or in a school find a project and work it to the end. You can record a TV show and replace all the effects and backgrounds or replace the music. Or record your friends or yourself in the bathroom. In any case, until you do the work you will not be worth anything to any employer. And standing over someones shoulder will not do it either. You have to spend the time , make the mistakes and learn the tricks.

did you get certified?

we did multiple projects in the courses in nyc inluding a "post" session. and had charles dye come in to do some mixing courses. i'd say there was a project in one form or another every day i was in there.

[RoyJeeBiv]

man, a bit of arrogance in here...

i don't really care to add to the pissing match, but whether someone learns PT by reading a manual or taking certification courses (or both), more power to 'em.

i took the courses, got certified.

did i use PT ahead of time?? yes.
did taking the courses help my workflow?? absolutely.
did i put my certification status on my resume?? of course.
did it have a direct impact in whether or not i got work?? hell if i know, but i'm getting it.

being "certified" doesn't really matter, in the end -- it's just signifies that you know your way around the program. just like a college degree signifies you took coursework and did an adequate enough job to pass.

when it comes down to it, you still have to prove your worth to land a paying gig. but being able to show a piece of paper -- be it a college degree or PT certification -- is a start. at the very least, it can't hurt.

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by RoyJeeBiv

man, a bit of arrogance in here...

i don't really care to add to the pissing match, but whether someone learns PT by reading a manual or taking certification courses (or both), more power to 'em.

i took the courses, got certified.

did i use PT ahead of time?? yes.
did taking the courses help my workflow?? absolutely.
did i put my certification status on my resume?? of course.
did it have a direct impact in whether or not i got work?? hell if i know, but i'm getting it.

being "certified" doesn't really matter, in the end -- it's just signifies that you know your way around the program. just like a college degree signifies you took coursework and did an adequate enough job to pass.

when it comes down to it, you still have to prove your worth to land a paying gig. but being able to show a piece of paper -- be it a college degree or PT certification -- is a start. at the very least, it can't hurt.

very good post. The individual just has to weigh up whether the input of cash hurts enough or not and whether that outlay is outbalanced given employer and industry types who are the few in a position to give people work. Myself included ...... At the end of the day there are remarkably few people dishing out ALL of the worlds mixing and recording work........That simple really isn't it...?

right, back some monster music.....

[sleeper1400]

i think its a good investment if you have the time and money.

not necessarily for the "certification" part of it (but that doesnt hurt either)
but more for the learning aspect of being taught by folks who know pro tools more than you.

im an expert at protools, a fullsail grad (2003)and a small studio owner..but that doesnt mean i cant learn some new tricks.

to the peeps that say certs are bullshit, your right, but taking classes of any kind is usually a good thing. i shy away from the discouragement of enrichment.

[sleeper1400]

Originally Posted by narcoman

you cannot learn to use a tool effectively in three days for real world situations. Same reason that a degree {of which I have three !! } dont teach you a job.


You can get better using these tools by doing it yourself - there's nothing difficult about them. I say if you need to be "taught" protools - you aint trying hard enough!! The tools themselves certainly dont teach you a darn thing ..... you wanna be able to do something in PT ? It's ALL in the ref manual - same as any other music software...

3 days!?!?

ive read your posts and tried to be understanding of your views, even when others attacked you.
but your a joke.
id think someone with 3 degrees would think a bit more before posting.
you clearly have no idea what you are talking about in any capacity in regards to this subject.
there are NO 3 day courses. and if there were, they'd be very cheap.

my classes totalled 4 months
101
201
210
310

each one was very indepth and if you didnt take notes or pay attention, you failed.period.

using your logic people should just "learn to wire and install an SSL with 32 inputs!!!!
what you cant do it!??! your not trying hard enough!

come on.
the premise is absurd.
why have classes of any kind if your gonna b like that?

its not about the certificate at all.
its about the knowledge of the software,(of which you seem completely inept of)

once again, me being the liberal compassionate guy i am.....
you must be a pretty seasoned engineer with more analog experience than digital.
and you got 4000 posts, which is definitely one of the highest ive seen on these forums.

so, in a true struggle to understand your logic....you must just be tired of 18 yr olds coming in wasting your time with their 'protools certs'
when they dont know how to replace a stick of ram, and have never givin a 2nd thought to understanding how a patchbay works.

thats the only thing i can fathom as to why you would be acting like such a ****** on this subject.

[Kollision]

I know ProTools Graduates that don't even use PROTOOLS in their own studio.

It's always Nuendo, Cubase, AUDITION, Logic, Sonar.

Logic>ProTools by far.

Logic's your way.

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by sleeper1400

3 days!?!?

ive read your posts and tried to be understanding of your views, even when others attacked you.
but your a joke.
id think someone with 3 degrees would think a bit more before posting.
you clearly have no idea what you are talking about in any capacity in regards to this subject.
there are NO 3 day courses. and if there were, they'd be very cheap.

my classes totalled 4 months
101
201
210
310

each one was very indepth and if you didnt take notes or pay attention, you failed.period.

using your logic people should just "learn to wire and install an SSL with 32 inputs!!!!
what you cant do it!??! your not trying hard enough!

come on.
the premise is absurd.
why have classes of any kind if your gonna b like that?

its not about the certificate at all.
its about the knowledge of the software,(of which you seem completely inept of)

once again, me being the liberal compassionate guy i am.....
you must be a pretty seasoned engineer with more analog experience than digital.
and you got 4000 posts, which is definitely one of the highest ive seen on these forums.

so, in a true struggle to understand your logic....you must just be tired of 18 yr olds coming in wasting your time with their 'protools certs'
when they dont know how to replace a stick of ram, and have never givin a 2nd thought to understanding how a patchbay works.

thats the only thing i can fathom as to why you would be acting like such a ****** on this subject.

Right first things first before a have a go at you. I am going to assume you think I really said that PT courses are 3 days. I did not. I specifically countered another claim about spending three days with him and learning etc. Read what I said again ..... or if you can't be bothered to read a whole thread then don't respond. In fact - READ THE QUOTE I WAS RESPONDING TO. Are are you so quick off the mark as to like to start a ruckus?

In fact I'll help - READ THE QUOTE I REPLIED TO

I never, not ONCE said the PT courses where three days long. Not a single utterance of it - Travis K said

"So while you may think a "cetificate" for pro tools is Bullshit, there is nothing Bullshit about getting better at using your tools. Sure you can look up the answers your self, but it is nice to go and learn from a qualified teacher for three days of focused training.

thanks
travis K"

To which I replied that you couldn't learn all about PT in three days as he was implying. He clearly agreed because he changed his post. But go back and read the fekkin reply again and think before jumping in with your size 5s having half read something.


Secondly - My logic says WHAT? My logic said SPECIFICALLY and with no inference in any other meaning - PT training is not worth the outlay in this money starved industry. You do not get back what you put in. You will learn the same by just sicking at it yourself for a year and spending the money on something else. You cannot make a deduction of what I think of skilled training based on what I think of PT TRAINING IN PARTICULAR.


Now with that gone - I'm gonna dig in....

I am TOTALLY against music tech colleges and other schemes to rip off the unwary - in fact I'm part of a body of company owners in the industry who are lobbying UK government for caps on places - I'm pro education but not in areas that just do not need it..... you DO need training to do wiring of an SSL, for example, but I would be against a college course that opened up 500 places {with government support} and churned out 500 qualified SSL tech personnel a year. What would be the point?

I DO see the PT courses as better than, for example, the numerous spurious music tech colleges {the SAE's of this world with their borderline practices}. However it is still a mechanism to strip individuals of their cash unless it's something that the individual really wants to do ..... It's still unnecessary because you can teach yourself PT by reading the manual. There are no difficult concepts.... i KNOW the courses basically contain a long list of extremely simple things - okay there are a few hundred of them but each operation takes the mental agility of a ten year old to grasp. That's how good a job Digidesign did when they put it together...... No protocols that you must follow. No complex understandings of the math required. Add an ICON? No problem - I taught myself in about three days ..... the rest of my crew in a similar amount...... It's a brilliantly piss simple recording system. That's all I've said. ALL the way through - I haven't said "you're a dick if you do this".... nothing. All I've given is a warning from an employer - a PT cert will give you no sway in a company like mine. It won't go against you - I won;t even acknowledge it's worth. I'll just ignore it. On that basis it's a lot of money for no advantage with me and many like me..... and since I know all the other agencies in this country and am on first name and drinking terms with pretty much all of them {as well as most of the worldwide competition actually} - I KNOW most feel the same. My contribution to this thread has been to remind those with ideas that doing such a course gives them anything in the way of advantages to be mindful of what they are doing. Have a REALLY good reason for doing it because it won't get you a job {not that there are any}.


More analogue than digital? No - about the same. I got my first Protools rig 15 years ago. Grew the company from that. Early adopter of digital in general as far as premium media product is concerned.

I've got 4000 posts? What relevance is this to anything? I like to help people mostly... I had a GREAT guy come in this week. 25 years old, no real CV. Didn't know anything. But he's been tenacious and really wants to work.... hassled me for six months for an informal chat. I've told him to learn PT and Nuendo to work with me. He can't afford a rig - so I've bought him an Mbox and loaned him a Mac for three months. If he can get up to speed with a few trash projects I've given him {in other words ones we've already completed but I want to see if he's got the right stuff} - I'll buy him the Mac. Maybe I should have told him to piss off.

..... I also like to display my displeasure with charlatans where I see fit and decry those who I know to be spreading rubbish.... especially the several "self appointed experts" I see flying around who've not worked on a professional high level product in their life.

So

you're contribution to this thread is:

1) calling me a joke - I mean? a joke? Really?
2) calling my professional credentials into question.... pretty silly. There are at least six people on here who know EXACLY what I do.
3) being rude and calling me names. THAT'll get you a long way in life.
4) failing to understand what I said - in other words imposing YOUR vision on my opinion.....
5) called me "inept in using PT".... I mean come on!!! What's that? A PT duel challenge......... I'll wipe the floor with ya kiddo..... I've made a LOT of money just using PT alone..... you wanted drums editing in the nineties? You came to me.

All I can assume is that you've done the courses and you're offended that someone in the biz is telling you it's not a shortcut to a career..... You don't want to believe that I could possibly be such a guy and therefore I must be a raving loon. Or some other such insult. Or could not possibly work in the industry etc etc.....


And people wonder why I remain anonymous {I would say PM me and find out which company I own but I've a feeling you'd tell all and sundry and make it impossible for me to relax and chat here with like minded types}... Maybe I should give up this forum....

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by sleeper1400

i think its a good investment if you have the time and money.

not necessarily for the "certification" part of it (but that doesnt hurt either)
but more for the learning aspect of being taught by folks who know pro tools more than you.

im an expert at protools, a fullsail grad (2003)and a small studio owner..but that doesnt mean i cant learn some new tricks.

to the peeps that say certs are bullshit, your right, but taking classes of any kind is usually a good thing. i shy away from the discouragement of enrichment.

So now you agree with me but I'm not allowed to say it? You call it enrichment - I call the process of questionable worth at the price you pay and to be sure you need it. On the basis of - you've got a bit of money to spare - should you go on a PT course to improve your career - I say no unless LOTS of spare money.

[Steve Honest]

as a long time user of Pro tools, and many many Pounds invested i can confirm that one would need to be certified to want anything to do with Avid/digidesign,
steve

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by Steve Honest

as a long time user of Pro tools, and many many Pounds invested i can confirm that one would need to be certified to want anything to do with Avid/digidesign,
steve

[sleeper1400]

Originally Posted by narcoman

Right first things first before a have a go at you. I am going to assume you think I really said that PT courses are 3 days. I did not. I specifically countered another claim about spending three days with him and learning etc. Read what I said again ..... or if you can't be bothered to read a whole thread then don't respond.

Secondly - My logic says WHAT? My logic said SPECIFICALLY and with no inference in any other meaning - PT training is not worth the outlay in this money starved industry. You do not get back what you put in. You will learn the same by just sicking at it yourself for a year and spending the money on something else. You cannot make a deduction of what I think of skilled training based on what I think of PT TRAINING IN PARTICULAR.


Now with that gone - I'm gonna dig in....

I am TOTALLY against music tech colleges and other schemes to rip off the unwary - in fact I'm part of a body of company owners in the industry who are lobbying UK government for caps on places - I'm pro education but not in areas that just do not need it..... you DO need training to do wiring of an SSL, for example, but I would be against a college course that opened up 500 places {with government support} and churned out 500 qualified SSL tech personnel a year. What would be the point?

I DO see the PT courses as better than, for example, the numerous spurious music tech colleges {the SAE's of this world with their borderline practices}. However it is still a mechanism to strip individuals of their cash unless it's something that the individual really wants to do ..... It's still unnecessary because you can teach yourself PT by reading the manual. There are no difficult concepts. No protocols that you must follow. No complex understandings of the math required. It's a piss simple recording system. That's all I've said. ALL the way through - I haven't said "you're a dick if you do this".... nothing. All I've given is a warning from an employer - a PT cert will give you no sway in a company like mine. It won't go against you - I won;t even acknowledge it's worth. I'll just ignore it. On that basis it's a lot of money for no advantage with me and many like me..... and since I know all the other agencies in this country and am on first name and drinking terms with pretty much all of them {as well as most of the worldwide competition actually} - I KNOW most feel the same. My contribution to this thread has been to remind those with ideas that doing such a course gives them anything in the way of advantages to be mindful of what they are doing. Have a REALLY good reason for doing it because it won't get you a job {not that there are any}.


More analogue than digital? No - about the same. I got my first Protools rig 15 years ago. Grew the company from that. Early adopter of digital in general as far as premium media product is concerned.

I've got 4000 posts? What relevance is this to anything? I like to help people mostly... I had a GREAT guy come in this week. 25 years old, no real CV. Didn't know anything. But he's been tenacious and really wants to work.... hassled me for six months for an informal chat. I've told him to learn PT and Nuendo to work with me. He can't afford a rig - so I've bought him an Mbox and loaned him a Mac for three months. If he can get up to speed with a few trash projects I've given him {in other words ones we've already completed but I want to see if he's got the right stuff} - I'll buy him the Mac. Maybe I should have told him to piss off.

..... I also like to display my displeasure with charlatans where I see fit and decry those who I know to be spreading rubbish.

So

you're contribution to this thread is:

1) calling me a joke - I mean? a joke? Really?
2) calling my professional credentials into question.... pretty silly. There are at least six people on here who know EXACLY what I do.
3) being rude....
4) failing to understand what I said - in other words imposing YOUR vision on my opinion.....
5) called me "inept in using PT".... I mean come on!!! What's that? A PT duel challenge......... I'll wipe the floor with ya kiddo.....

All I can assume is that you've done the courses and you're offended that someone in the biz is telling you it's not a shortcut to a career..... You don't want to believe that I could possibly be such a guy and therefore I must be a raving loon. Or some other such insult.


And people wonder why I remain anonymous. Maybe I should give up this forum.... it's people like YOU that make me question helping others at all.....

wow. way to totally go ballistic.

but needless to say i read your post carefully and see your point.
i shouldnt have been so hard on ya, but those posts you made got me mad.
sorry dude.

your right, education is not a shortcut to a carreer, its what you do w the education if your smart enough to take advantage.and your justified in railing against "degree mills".


on the same token, i learned more in my two years working under a genius at a pretty big studio than i ever did w my nose in a book.

but if i didnt have the education i did, i wouldve been left in the dust.

and yes, i did think you said 3 days, either way, ill bury the hachet.

i dont take anything you said personally.
but i dont think you'd "mop the floor with me."
i got my protools rig more than 5 years ago, and have been fortunate tto have found little trouble finding work because i have a good attitude and provide excellant service .
truthfully, i think youd be pleasantly surprised by me.

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by sleeper1400

wow. way to totally go ballistic.

but needless to say i read your post carefully and see your point.
i shouldnt have been so hard on ya, but those posts you made got me mad.
sorry dude.

your right, education is not a shortcut to a carreer, its what you do w the education if your smart enough to take advantage.and your justified in railing against "degree mills".


on the same token, i learned more in my two years working under a genius at a pretty big studio than i ever did w my nose in a book.

but if i didnt have the education i did, i wouldve been left in the dust.

and yes, i did think you said 3 days, either way, ill bury the hachet.

i dont take anything you said personally.
but i dont think you'd "mop the floor with me."
i got my protools rig more than 5 years ago, and have been fortunate tto have found little trouble finding work because i have a good attitude and provide excellant service .
truthfully, i think youd be pleasantly surprised by me.

sometimes ballistics are the proof. I've seen CSI

I understand.

Okay - we're pretty much on the same page. I'll delete the post if you want - i did actually edit a few bits... trying not to be insulting but still getting the old point across sort of thing.... might have gone too far...... just that when someone swears at me I take a defensive stance!!

Your last sentence is precisely the sort of thing that fuels peoples work. The right attitude - that's always what I'm looking for in people.

And I agree an education is the first step in any career. I really want people to be sure what they're doing when they try and enter this business.....it's tough. You probably know this!! Heck - I've made a lot of money over the years but I wonder daily if I should have stayed in research - how much more work is there really gonna be etc etc!!

And yes - "degree mills" are predatory. Not just in music though - there is a lot of it in the arts overall. My good lady did a performing arts degree at a similar media based college - regrets it a lot now......

the "mop the floor" was a sideswipe joke.....

likewise sorry for any offense. I'm certainly not belittling anyone for doing the course - that would be stupid and if it's come across that i've implied that - then that's not what i meant!

[sleeper1400]

Originally Posted by narcoman

sometimes ballistics are the proof. I've seen CSI

I understand.

Okay - we're pretty much on the same page. I'll delete the post if you want - i did actually edit a few bits... trying not to be insulting but still getting the old point across sort of thing.... might have gone too far...... just that when someone swears at me I take a defensive stance!!

Your last sentence is precisely the sort of thing that fuels peoples work. The right attitude - that's always what I'm looking for in people.

And I agree an education is the first step in any career. I really want people to be sure what they're doing when they try and enter this business.....it's tough. You probably know this!! Heck - I've made a lot of money over the years but I wonder daily if I should have stayed in research - how much more work is there really gonna be etc etc!!

And yes - "degree mills" are predatory. Not just in music though - there is a lot of it in the arts overall. My good lady did a performing arts degree at a similar media based college - regrets it a lot now......

the "mop the floor" was a sideswipe joke.....

likewise sorry for any offense. I'm certainly not belittling anyone for doing the course - that would be stupid and if it's come across that i've implied that - then that's not what i meant!

sure, i think we both ultimately want the same thing.
a fair deal.

degree mills aren' a fair dealt, and that in turn, can result in poor service.
poor service to an employer (like you and me)
poor service to the student (those we hire)
and most importantly poor service to a client that's placed his or her trust in us to make their dream a reality.

im big on customer service, i can go on all day with that.lol.
im of the school that service in king. and education and experience are the tools needed to provide the best service to the paying client.

ok, im rambling. too much turkey and sweet potato

good nite

[takman]

what about when new releases of the software come out....do you have to take a new short "refresher" exam every time that happens?

Wouldnt everything thats covered in the exam, be covered in the DAW's manual?

i read sections of cubase's manual every now and then, and thats helped me out significantly.

[Emwolb]

Originally Posted by RoyJeeBiv

being "certified" doesn't really matter, in the end -- it's just signifies that you know your way around the program.

Actually no, it doesn't mean that whatsoever, it means you were able to pass the required course work. Retention and comprehension are completely different than passing.

I know far too many certified engineers who don't know sh*t for that to be true.

My FAVORITE OF ALL-

And this is 100% true.

I was asked to babysit a session with a certified engineer who was trying to get work at our studio. During the beginning of the session I realized he had his levels set FAR FAR too low- and I mean RIDICULOUSLY low.

I told him 3 times to gain his pres, and he refused. I finally told him he MUST gain his pres, his signals were far too weak.

He then opened the edit window to tiny itsy bitsy audio waveforms, clicked the zoom wave form button until they were much bigger and said, "There, the audio is fine now."

He was NOT kidding. He was NOT being a smart ass. He literally thought the audio was now louder.

Protools certified.

There is ONLY one benefit to certification- putting it on your RESUME.

He was fired by the owner of the studio... Ive never been certified and Ive been there for 9 years...

Again, I know a few engineers who are certified and incompetent. And the certified ones that aren't, were competent BEFORE certification and only got it for job apps...

[Strider86]

Hey All,

I go to La recording school and i've been looking for some places on where i could do some online practice tests for the 101? so far i've only found a practice test for the 110 and some flash cards. Any help would be much appreciated!

[The Amplighter]

I just want to let everyone know I'm Digidesign disapproved and luvin' it.



Digidesign Flashcards - for the quick key commands (OMG! LOL!!!)