KM 84 on snare (I'm afraid)

[Vintageblue02]

Originally Posted by Musiclab

Don't be afraid, Rather than point the mic down on the snare, act as if you're micing the shell, then raise
the mic so the capsule is poking out over the rim. the mic will be back at least an inch from the drum. The drummer will have to aim for it to hit it. And you get way less of the top head ring

+1

[DeadPoet]

184 anyone?




Herwig

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by Fletcher

Perhaps you need to work with shittier drummers I haven't seen it done in years, but when I was "low man on the totem pole" during the 80's I had lots of guys whack snare mics... needless to say they're doing what they should be doing in the music industry now [they're consumers].

hahahah!! The world needs shittier drummers..... .... I think in my early days I instilled a bit of fear..... "hit the mic's and there will be trouble"....

[Deuce 225]

Originally Posted by salomonander

km84 is my favorite snare drum mic. the only mic i know that really captures the snare flawless. just install it slightly outside the rim pointing at the middle and you are rather safe.

In this position, do you have the pad in ?

[wwittman]

with the pad, definitely

[QUEEF BAG]

1 I love 84's on snare, especially jazz, rock too

2 100 % agree with wwittman pic

3 I look at the pattern of stick marks on the snare head.
says alot about the drumbers accuracy. tight patern of
marks in the center-cool, stickmarks all around the head?
-sm57 or if i want better top a 57 w/o transformer.

4 my favorite on snare is B&K 4011 !

[wwittman]

I look at the drum head,

then I look at the shoes the drummer is wearing

then I consult my astrologer

next, I have the guitarist's Hematocrit levels verified

if possible, I ask for humidity levels in the studio to be verified by an independent meteorologist

then, if it's a snare drum, I put a KM84 on it

[Croaker]

Originally Posted by wwittman

I look at the drum head,

then I look at the shoes the drummer is wearing

then I consult my astrologer

next, I have the guitarist's Hematocrit levels verified

if possible, I ask for humidity levels in the studio to be verified by an independent meteorologist

then, if it's a snare drum, I put a KM84 on it

ROFLLLLL ........classic

[Daedalus77]

To respond to one of the thread's tangential questions:

I don't think the 184 is as bad a mic as many around these parts suggest, but I also don't think it sounds good on snare.

Go for the KM84. You'll be pleased.

[bigbone]

I love KM 84 on snare

P.S. I play drums for the last 20 years and i never , not even one, hit a mic.......
you got to be a pretty BAD drummer to hit a snare mic that far from the snare......

[bigbone]

Originally Posted by QUEEF BAG

I look at the pattern of stick marks on the snare head.
says alot about the drumbers accuracy. tight patern of
marks in the center-cool, stickmarks all around the head?
-sm57 or if i want better top a 57 w/o transformer.
!

Not always true, sometime you hit near the edge to get a different tone from the snare

[Sounds Great]

Sounds great when you solo the snare mic, I'm sure. But when do you really solo a snare mic? Snare is coming in from everywhere anyway.

Just use an M201. A lot less money, will do the job just fine, and I'm guessing won't be bothered much by the occasional hit. As always y.m.m.v.

[Sigma]

just tape it to the bottom of a 57 and it solves that problem

the spl stuff..pop in the pad and it's fine..i never used them on snares but i used them on rack toms for years

[wwittman]

Originally Posted by Sounds Great

Sounds great when you solo the snare mic, I'm sure. But when do you really solo a snare mic? Snare is coming in from everywhere anyway.

Just use an M201. A lot less money, will do the job just fine, and I'm guessing won't be bothered much by the occasional hit. As always y.m.m.v.

not "just fine" for ME.
If the sound is all in the other mics, then why do you need a snare mic at all?
Presumably you are HEARING the snare mic in the balance, so the mic in question matters just as much as every other mic... not in "solo"; in the BALANCE.

The Beyer 201 is tweaked to be bright; but that's not the issue. I have an EQ, thanks. It still sounds SLOW.
The 84 has the impact of the hit intact.
When you say "sounds great.. I'm sure..." it seems to imply you're taking it on faith, but not based on you TRYING it.
Perhaps you should HEAR an 84 in your otherwise the same set up before you can actually say with any authority that the 201 sounds as good, or even anywhere close to as good.

In truth, there are times when I find myself in a studio where an 84 is not available.
In those cases, i find another condenser that will fit in the space and that has a pad and can take the level.
But I have never been happy with moving-coil dynamic mics on snare They'r e just not fast enough.


I've used 87's, Gefell UM70s or M300, KM54 or 56, Sony C48p, AKG C60, even an Octavia.
But I have never really liked moving coil mics on snares (and usually not on toms either)

[Sounds Great]

Originally Posted by wwittman

not "just fine" for ME.
If the sound is all in the other mics, then why do you need a snare mic at all?
Presumably you are HEARING the snare mic in the balance, so the mic in question matters just as much as every other mic... not in "solo"; in the BALANCE.

The Beyer 201 is tweaked to be bright; but that's not the issue. I have an EQ, thanks. It still sounds SLOW.
The 84 has the impact of the hit intact.
When you say "sounds great.. I'm sure..." it seems to imply you're taking it on faith, but not based on you TRYING it.
Perhaps you should HEAR an 84 in your otherwise the same set up before you can actually say with any authority that the 201 sounds as good, or even anywhere close to as good.

In truth, there are times when I find myself in a studio where an 84 is not available.
In those cases, i find another condenser that will fit in the space and that has a pad and can take the level.
But I have never been happy with moving-coil dynamic mics on snare They'r e just not fast enough.


I've used 87's, Gefell UM70s or M300, KM54 or 56, Sony C48p, AKG C60, even an Octavia.
But I have never really liked moving coil mics on snares (and usually not on toms either)

I certainly can't argue with that. thumbsup

Of course I also prefer the old school sound over the more modern sound for drums, so of course that is a factor too.

[syra]

Originally Posted by nickolo

Its a mic ! not the bloody crown jewels !!!

Haha ...finally some sense in this thread.

I never had a drummer hit anything other than drums. Having said that, I don't like the sound of a KM84 on top. Love it on the bottom though.

If you need more brightness/less boxiness try an audix i5. Otherwise get your hi-end from the overheads...

[vernier]

I wouldn't put a vintage Neumann near a guy beating a snare. Use a dynamic.

[Mike O]

Where is that pic of Jeff Porcaro with C12s on toms? I seem to recall there are six (maybe more)?

[bigbone]

Originally Posted by Mike O

Where is that pic of Jeff Porcaro with C12s on toms? I seem to recall there are six (maybe more)?

That was his video. and it was ELAM 251 on toms, not C12 the C12 were on the OH'S

[Sigma]

Originally Posted by vernier

I wouldn't put a vintage Neumann near a guy beating a snare. Use a dynamic.

no guts ...NO GLORY

christ i put 87's on toms..only once with a spastic drummer did they get hit..nice divot on the screen..but just cosmetic

[wwittman]

Originally Posted by Sounds Great

Of course I also prefer the old school sound over the more modern sound for drums, so of course that is a factor too.

meaning, from before there were condenser mics??


meaning one ribbon mic overhead for the whole drum sound?


Emerick was using a KM54 or 56 as far back as 1966

[wwittman]

Originally Posted by syra

If you need more brightness/less boxiness try an audix i5. Otherwise get your hi-end from the overheads...

once again.
I have an eq.
brightness has nothing to do with it.

[haikusoftruth]

Originally Posted by narcoman

i've never had a drummer hit a snare mic. Tom mic, overheads - yes. But snare mic - no. It's just never in a position where they can!! What are you guys doing? Putting it in the middle ?

The only time I ever had a mic damaged was the drummer hitting the snare mic... Then he denied it... Then I showed him the dented grill... He still denied it and said, " are you sure that wasn't there?" he barely hit it but it was a precise shot!

Regardless, can't charge the client for that. Period. Bad decision on my part with him.

I don't think all the cocaine helped much. (thats the bad decision on my part... part)

[Kore]

I put my fet47 on a snare drum once, far and away the meatiest snare sound I've ever achieved. Got really into doing it..then someone performed a mis-hit and caved in the capsule mesh.

Won't do that again.

[doorknocker]

I much prefer a SM57 or a Beyer M201 on snare. Same on acoustic guitar and I just got a fine AKG D19C that is way more useful to me than my KM 84s were.

[cheu78]

Originally Posted by wwittman

But I have never really liked moving coil mics on snares (and usually not on toms either)

It seems we have exact opposite tastes! LOL
I love the dynamics on snare and toms better than the condensers.. exactly for the same reason that you dislike them... they're not fast! stike



just my 0.02$,

Bests,

Cheu

[syra]

Originally Posted by wwittman

once again.
I have an eq.
brightness has nothing to do with it.

If it comes down to transients and a 57 is too slow for you.. what can I say. I usually find myself trying to tame transients... then again most drummers I work with play super hard rimshots ...

[illacov]

So maybe someone needs to invent a football helmet for the front of LDC and SDC mics for snare micing??

Sounds like a new product idea waiting for me to develop e...

I'll get to work on it asap.

Peace
Illumination

[devinkerr]

Originally Posted by DeadPoet

184 anyone?




Herwig

I think the 184 is a perfect mic for snare top, especially when paired with a dynamic on top as well.

The 184 off axis stuff is actually very natural for an SDC (less strident/awful hi-hat bleed).

[illacov]

Ok my early Xmas gift to the gs community.

The SDC and LDC helmet!!

Materials needed:

Adult supervision.

dremel or hacksaw (optional)

A drill

Wingnuts

Small bolts, short in length

Silver Mesh Pencil Cup



3" X 3" X 2" Silver Mesh Drawer



and

A cheap ass mic clip, like the kind you'd use for a SM58.

Drill two appropriate holes in the side of the pencil cup and make matching holes in the side of the mic clip. Obviously the bolts can't be too too long, but you can just make 4 holes total in the mic clip so that you can use longer bolts. Common sense. Just some bolts to screw the wingnuts onto. Theres a few ways to do it. I think if you want it extra sturdy, you'd make 4 parallel holes in the mic clip. Then you'd need the 2 holes to match it on the mesh pencil cup.

Insert the bolts into the holes in the mesh cup with the terminating ends inside the cup, so basically threads come from the inside to the outside of the cup. Then the bolt passes through the mic clip and receives the wing nut. You this for both bolts and respective wingnut.

Screw em in tight and voila a mic helmet for your sdc.

If you'd like to create a "channel," for the SDC and the clip it goes onto, then use a dremel cutting tool or a hacksaw to create the gap of an appropriate size. I'm thinking the dremel would create a much more elegant cut.

You'd do the same thing for the drawer as far as the screws, BUT you'd want to put the bolts near the very top of the drawer so that there's less opportunity for you to scratch the mics finish.

I ordered my mesh drawer and mesh cup for about 12 bucks shipped, I've held these things in my hands before at my co-worker's desk before and they're pretty hard, harder than grill mesh on a mic.

They should work out swimmingly.

You can just put the clip (with the wingnuts) onto a mic stand (screw it in) and position the stand wherever the mic that needs protection is at, so that the mic goes inside the pencil holder (SDC) or the drawer (LDC).

If you want to do this without using a second mic stand, then do the following.

Get a gooseneck adapter that has male ends (mic stand thread 5/8") and screw the clip (with the cup/drawer) on one end and then get one of those squeeze mic clips so that you can clamp your little contraption right to the resident mic stand that has the mic you need to protect.

I don't think the mess will hurt the sonics of the mic in question any more than a metal pop filter would.

You should be able to put this whole together in 20 minutes tops and have it cost you no more than 20 to 30 bucks to kludge it together.

Again, why the F this ain't a product? I have no clue.

Anyhoo Merry X Mas! Have a great Thanksgiving and you BETTER not try to make this when you're supposed to be carving Turkey! The wife will have a fit LMAO!

Peace
Illumination