8th November 2009
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#1 | | Moderator
Joined: May 2004 Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 7,464
Thread Starter  | BAE 1084 or BAE 1073.
Thursday we are ripping my rack apart and cleaning everything up and rewiring from scratch. I have a 2 rack space rack with 1 vintage Neve 1073 and I'm thinking about getting a matched pair of pres. I'm looking at getting a pair of either BAE 1084's or BAE 1073's. Not sure if I'm going crazy, I'll probably have to dump my vintage Neve to fund this. It's just my buddy had been mixing a lot at the studio and using the eq and really could use a matched pair. Has anyone gone from vintage Neve to BAE? How do you like 1073 vs 1084? Thoughts?
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8th November 2009
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#2 | | 3 + infractions, forum membership suspended.
Joined: Jun 2006 Location: Boston
Posts: 7,119
| Quote:
Originally Posted by James 'LA' Lugo  Thursday we are ripping my rack apart and cleaning everything up and rewiring from scratch. I have a 2 rack space rack with 1 vintage Neve 1073 and I'm thinking about getting a matched pair of pres. I'm looking at getting a pair of either BAE 1084's or BAE 1073's. Not sure if I'm going crazy, I'll probably have to dump my vintage Neve to fund this. It's just my buddy had been mixing a lot at the studio and using the eq and really could use a matched pair. Has anyone gone from vintage Neve to BAE? How do you like 1073 vs 1084? Thoughts? | the BA's are good but just don't have the same mojo in the bottom
that the real deal gives you. This is not to say BA's don't sound great
but they are not as good as the originals. Same vibe but no exact.
but at 1/2 the $$$ they are still worth it. I like Wunder PEQs better.
They are not neve clones but they have a bigger bottom end and
better highs than the BA stuff. I like the mids on the Wunders more than a real 10xx units.
Sweet on Gtrs vox, kick drums bass ,ohs....... EQ is just sooooo good.
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8th November 2009
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#3 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Mar 2004 Location: Indiana
Posts: 749
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Don't overlook their new 1023; love mine.
Same pre, killer EQ!
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8th November 2009
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#4 | | Moderator
Joined: May 2004 Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 7,464
Thread Starter | Quote:
Originally Posted by robertshaw the BA's are good but just don't have the same mojo in the bottom
that the real deal gives you. This is not to say BA's don't sound great
but they are not as good as the originals. Same vibe but no exact.
but at 1/2 the $$$ they are still worth it. I like Wunder PEQs better.
They are not neve clones but they have a bigger bottom end and
better highs than the BA stuff. I like the mids on the Wunders more than a real 10xx units.
Sweet on Gtrs vox, kick drums bass ,ohs....... EQ is just sooooo good. | How long ago was this? I think they've done some revamping. Yeah the thought of dumping my vintage neve is weird, it's just a pair looks like it's in my near future.
Thanks for the replies.
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8th November 2009
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#5 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,785
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This is just one person's opinion (a person that has 2 Averil 1073's and 2 Averil racked original Neve 1073's). Do not sell your original Neve. You will always second guess yourself and you may never be able to get another one. If you have to bite the bullet and get 2 BA 1073 or 1084's do it. Sell other stuff. The BAE 's are GREAT, I'll repeat that; GREAT. You will love them. But don't sell something that may be unreplaceable, you will regret it. Look around, there are other ways to finance this.
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8th November 2009
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#6 | | Moderator
Joined: May 2004 Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 7,464
Thread Starter | Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Sutton This is just one person's opinion (a person that has 2 Averil 1073's and 2 Averil racked original Neve 1073's). Do not sell your original Neve. You will always second guess yourself and you may never be able to get another one. If you have to bite the bullet and get 2 BA 1073 or 1084's do it. Sell other stuff. The BAE 's are GREAT, I'll repeat that; GREAT. You will love them. But don't sell something that may be unreplaceable, you will regret it. Look around, there are other ways to finance this. | Got it, I thought the same thing. Thanks for the advice I WILL take it!
J
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8th November 2009
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#7 | | Gear Guru
Joined: Jun 2002 Location: New York City
Posts: 14,175
| Quote:
Originally Posted by James 'LA' Lugo Thoughts? | Screw what anyone else thinks and go with what sounds best to you and fits your work flow.
After 7 years of the same GS Bull sh*t, Neve vs. clone crap i think its been proven over and over that you can make great sounding records with either. So if this is really the case its just a matter of trying it out yourself.
Really who's opinion matters most anyway? The gear designer? The gear pimp? The megalomaniac producer/engineer with a boatload of gear? The over opinionated GS member? The weekend warrior? The over enthusiastic gear owner who's one and only mic preamp is a Neve or clone? Neither one actually. Each has his own bias.
One thing that you notice hasn't changed around here is that some peoples biases keep them still seeing things in the old ways. Where name recognition is still much more important than actual sound or use. You woulda thought in this modern climate that its been shown that no one really gives a f*ck anymore what you use...only the results.
The importance of a name is really to the user and for some its really a psychological boost to know they either use or own something that is valued by others.
Now does this give you better sonic results???? Who knows?  | |
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8th November 2009
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#8 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Monica, CA
Posts: 7,436
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I agree that it's just not as big a deal as people make it out to be.
-R
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8th November 2009
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#9 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Nov 2009 Location: Washington
Posts: 1,912
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would it be hard to find another neve to match up with the one 1073 you already have????? i imagine because it would be used, it might not be the perfect stereo match.....
you could trade in the one you have and cash to vintage king for a stereo pair of vintage neve 1073's.
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8th November 2009
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#10 | | Lives for gear
Joined: May 2004 Location: Los Angeles ,Ca.
Posts: 9,408
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I dunno never had a complaint w/ the BAE 1084's .I use em next to the original[marinairs] .
nice to always have perfectly working switches/pots.
the eq's sections are so damn close if not maybe a hair cleaner.the vibe is there.about the same diff btw an AMS
Grab a demo James. they'll hook you right up
fyi there's an AMS 1073 in the classifieds for 2500.00-ish
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8th November 2009
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#11 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Nov 2004 Location: here
Posts: 4,469
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Take BAE 1023 (if you need Neve) and that's it. If you are lucky with selling yours vintage 1073 it will take some small investment to have 2 ch. of better pres (I don't doubt it at all). Bottom end is spot on as on originals.
Everything else, too + added frequencies.
I've found that I don't need 1073/1084 for anything and I sold mine some years ago. I have lot of gears (more than I need for sure) and don't approach them as snob or fetishist. I appreciate RND 5088 console over any Neve old ones in all respects, and no financial reason to that I couldn't affford vintage if I would believe it is worth that. My ears didn't say me so.
Aurora, Great River and Chandler deliver various flavors that I find absolutelly sufficient to my (picky) taste in having vintage Neve and around that flavors.
__________________
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8th November 2009
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#12 | | Gear maniac
Joined: Jan 2009 Location: College Grove, TN
Posts: 213
| Quote:
Originally Posted by James 'LA' Lugo Got it, I thought the same thing. Thanks for the advice I WILL take it!
J | Yeah... Learn from your KM-84s mistake!  | |
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8th November 2009
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#13 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Nov 2009 Location: Washington
Posts: 1,912
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James, i just gotta say man, your studio kicks asshole!!!!!!!!!!!!
truly a beautiful setup you got going man!!!!!
Last edited by tapehiss; 8th November 2009 at 10:06 AM..
Reason: your goats in my garden
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8th November 2009
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#14 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Jun 2009 Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 3,334
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Originally Posted by tapehiss James, i just gotta say man, your studio kicks asshole!!!!!!!!!!!! | Actually, it's James that kicks... The gear and the space is just an extension of his skills and dedication. | |
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8th November 2009
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#15 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Sep 2008 Location: United States
Posts: 5,345
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You ever tried an aurora? If you haven't, I highly recommend it. I have an old Phoenix audio version GTC2. Not the newer GTC2 stuff which I have no if they are the same or what have you. But I love my GTC2 so much, I sold my neves reluctantly to buy other gear.
Just from looking at the guts of the BAE vs the original and AMS versions. I bet they don't sound exactly the same.. The caps in the BAE are different than AMS neves. And caps/transformers in the original will sound different from the newer clones...AMS in my opinion used "QUALITY" internal parts. High quality capacitors, supposedly better transformers (correctly made clones) than you can get from carnhill outlet..(blue paint cans that everyone else uses and can be bought by anyone). And the ones for AMS, are only for AMS. And the originals, of course IMO are the best "mojo" transformers.
Some will say that the new current Carnhill trannies are all the same (BAE blue cans vs. AMS green cans). And that they are just painted different on the outside. Hmmmm, they painted the outside with a different custom color for a reason I would assume. Like after spending alot time and research of getting a close match makes sense to me. Or do you believe they did that to fool everyone to think their transformers were "special" compared to the rest? I don't really know. But one day I will test them myself. Haven't had the time yet.
Again, somebody here will most likely chime in and tell you its the same. Ask yourself, did they actually did a shootout and compared the Blue carnhills to the AMS custom green carnhills? In my experience, Different parts = different sound. The parts in the AMS 1073 are top notch down to the last capacitor. Of course they cost more than BAEs. But all depends on what you are willing to spend. $8000 for an AMS pair with rack or BAE's $6500 pair with rack or $2600 for GTC2.
If you seriously need a high quality matching pair of 1073s for the sake of having matching stereo eq pair and preamps. My vote is to get the AMS Neve modules with the AMS rack. And get them ordered with close serial #s.. And if you want to go even further. Install the original trannies in them. Let it be known, that AMS did switch up some parts through the years because of availability. I know this for fact from owing one module made in 2006 and another made in 2008. They were not exactly the same.
The mids and that british magic punch on those things are just phenomenal. Some say don't use any other rack than AMS racks to get the best of them..I went with that advice and was very happy with the result. It was Low noise!! in comparison to those vintechs (serious hum buggers).. And it makes sense. To buy the same manufacturer rack, which they tested with their modules. I ended up choosing my GTC2 over them because of many factors. (sound -GTC2 had a better high freq clarity, price factor, I don't need all the eq points or filters, no hum, I don't need a rack/psu to run them and the aurora's only take 1u of space big +).
Finding a close match pair of the originals that are intact 100%. Man, thats going to be difficult. Because who knows what parts were replaced in them (caps, resistors, etc) over the years. And are the transformers the same make? Neve had all kinds of different input transformer makes. (black cans, olive green metallic cans, light green painted cans, even cylinder cans (old neves) not the squares we see alot of)
cheers. | |
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8th November 2009
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#16 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,577
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My BAE 1084's work great! Highly recommend them.
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8th November 2009
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#17 | | member no 666
Joined: Jun 2002 Location: Suffern, NY
Posts: 10,411
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James, if I were in your shoes I would seriously look at the BA 1084 &/or 1023. I would have them brought down, I would set them up and do "side by side comparisons" as they relate to product you're working on currently.
From there I would make my decision... but I'm not you though I wish the best of luck with your quandary.
Peace.
__________________ CN Fletcher Professional Affiliation: R/E/P Professional Recording Engineer and Producer forums mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33
We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid
Roscoe Ambel once said:
Pro-Tools is to audio what fluorescent is to light | |
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8th November 2009
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#18 | | Moderator
Joined: May 2004 Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 7,464
Thread Starter |
Thanks for all the replies guys. Nice dig on the KM84's.
Ultimately I will try some out for myself, I'm gonna check out some BAE's on Monday. I don't know enough about the option of getting a second vintage neve that will match up close enough to the one I have, I read that it probably won't, so unless I find one locally and the guy can bring it to my studio I can't check.
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9th November 2009
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#20 | | Moderator
Joined: May 2004 Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 7,464
Thread Starter |
Got a new BAE 1084 this morning to try and have been using it against my vintage neve, first impressions is it's got the sound for sure. It actually has a little bit more low end and is a bit bigger and warmer sounding. Honestly so far I like it better. Haven't tried the eq yet just tracking female vocals with my Wagner.
Also grabbed a 1073MPF  | |
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9th November 2009
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#21 | | Lives for gear
Joined: May 2004 Location: Los Angeles ,Ca.
Posts: 9,408
| Quote:
Originally Posted by James 'LA' Lugo Got a new BAE 1084 this morning to try and have been using it against my vintage neve, first impressions is it's got the sound for sure. It actually has a little bit more low end and is a bit bigger and warmer sounding. Honestly so far I like it better.
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Bingo.  | |
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10th November 2009
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#22 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,005
| Quote:
Originally Posted by James 'LA' Lugo Got a new BAE 1084 this morning to try and have been using it against my vintage neve, first impressions is it's got the sound for sure. It actually has a little bit more low end and is a bit bigger and warmer sounding. Honestly so far I like it better. Haven't tried the eq yet just tracking female vocals with my Wagner.
Also grabbed a 1073MPF |
Hey James,
Let us know how the 1073 MPF compares to BAE 1084 (with the EQ set flat). I'm pretty curious about that one... is it really a "1073" or is it their old 1272 with a new faceplate? (Didn't you used to have a BAE 1272?)
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10th November 2009
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#23 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Jun 2008 Location: Japan
Posts: 2,072
| Quote:
Originally Posted by James 'LA' Lugo Got a new BAE 1084 this morning to try and have been using it against my vintage neve, first impressions is it's got the sound for sure. It actually has a little bit more low end and is a bit bigger and warmer sounding. Honestly so far I like it better. Haven't tried the eq yet just tracking female vocals with my Wagner.
Also grabbed a 1073MPF |
Keep us posted James. I'm interested in how far you can push the BAE 1084 and come out with a great sound the way the old Neves can. Do they clip or do they get that natural limiting thing?
Sound files wouldn't be bad either!
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10th November 2009
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#24 | | Gear interested
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 17
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I have a BAE 1084 and a 1073 DPA. You should definitely get a newer model of the Brent Averill with a variable ohm switch.
Especially, when you own a C800G or a U47W. The 300 ohm switch makes a huge difference to me. Eq-wise, I think, you don't really need the 84 options, you're good with a 1073.
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10th November 2009
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#25 | | Moderator
Joined: May 2004 Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 7,464
Thread Starter |
I f'n love the BAE! I'm getting one and keeping my vintage neve. In session will hit back later...
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10th November 2009
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#26 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,200
| Quote:
Originally Posted by radiospace Hey James,
Let us know how the 1073 MPF compares to BAE 1084 (with the EQ set flat). | +1 
Would be great to hear some files.
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10th November 2009
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#27 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Sep 2008 Location: United States
Posts: 5,345
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Nice. I wonder how the BAE would sound with the new currently made BAE rack. The 2 module rack looks really nice. If you are happy, thats all that matters...
As stated before..hearing some audio files of the 2 in comparison will be awesome.
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10th November 2009
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#28 | | Moderator
Joined: May 2004 Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 7,464
Thread Starter |
I will get some files up at some point. We had the older version of the 2 channel 1272 and went with the new 2 channel 1073MPF.
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10th November 2009
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#29 | | Moderator
Joined: Feb 2004 Location: Boston,MA Providence,RI
Posts: 16,335
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Did you get to try the 1023? I'm surprised you didn't get that...
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10th November 2009
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#30 | | Moderator
Joined: May 2004 Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 7,464
Thread Starter | Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyBelmont Did you get to try the 1023? I'm surprised you didn't get that... | I may. Why is the 1023 cheaper if it is the same and has more frequencies?
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