George Massenburg choses Digidesign Icon for new studio!

[jonnyclueless]

Originally Posted by djui5

Right...and the cap's on the J's power supply don't blow every couple of months? The faders don't get knocked out of calibration quite often? The automation computer....f'n POS....right?

No, No, and the last question is a matter of opinion.

[Igotsoul4u]

[QUOTE=jindrich]your arguments are valid, but i see a few flaws.

1) a 100k SSL in good condition will hardly need any maintenance, except for the plasma meters and moving faders. Easy, get one with VU instead and clean the faders in low hours.

2) a 100k ICON will be worth NOTHING in 5 years, whereas a 100k SSL could be sold for say 50k after those 5 years. so you can spend as much as 50k in electricity to make things even.


just a few thoughts. but they, i LOVE fully autoreset in 1 second (ICON) instead of 1 hour (SSL). I'd buy an ICON tomorrow if they were cheaper. 100k is a big sum of a mistake these days (= read, if you fail on the election, you're done)


I would have to disagree based on personal experience. SSL's definetly require a good deal of maintenence. Not everyday but at least once a month something will need to be done and I don't mean replacing light bulbs. I guess if you are the only one using it then maintenence might be a little bit less.

For 100k you get everything you need minus a G5. Digi offers some really amzing package deals now. An SSL may cost the same but you still need to install it and buy a protools rig (an extra $25,000 minimum) You also need a flawless airconditioning system and a buttload of wiring. You can drop an icon in a room at 9am and have everything up and running in 5 hours. I also think the ICON will maintain its value as well as an SSL but only time will tell.

[xqtion]

Mr Massenberg, are you using stock Digi 192 converters?
Thanks.

[natpub]

Originally Posted by xqtion

Mr Massenberg, are you using stock Digi 192 converters?
Thanks.

Last i heard he was using EMM, possibly DCS sometimes. Also heard GML may have been designing some of their own, which would be interesting.

[atticus]

I think that it is important to remember that Mr. Massenburg designed one of the best analog mixers ever, the GML HRT-9100. So he knows a little bit about summing for sure. And for his room I am going to bet that he designed a lot of the gear that he is using to track into PT in the first place, and once in PT he designed the EQ's he using. Doesn't look too shabby so far.

We have to remember that investing in any digital technology, especially control surfaces and computers, is not an investment in material things, it is an investment in efficiency. If Mr. Massenburg feels that the ICON will enable him to work more quickly and productively then more power to him for buying it. Who cares what it is worth in five years if it more then pays for itself in time saved and music made?

Just my thoughts...

[Resonater]

Of course, I find this thread very interesting for several reasons. First off, I'm honored to share "Icon-ownership" with George, just as I am with Crystalphonic, Supersonic, Mike Shipley and the many growing number of Icon owners. Secondly, I have felt for some time that the Icon path was nearly an inevitable one. Yes, I own a pristine, vintage E-Series 4000 SSL, and of that desk, I am extremely proud. Yet, I feel that digital electronics, which would include the current offerings from SSL, Neve, Euphonix and Digidesign offer increasingly beneficial capabilities, which we, in the audio field, can put to very good use.

I wholeheartedly agree with George that digital electronics have progressed to the point that they must be considered when looking into consoles and/or control surfaces. I chose the Icon (D-Control, actually) because of its very tight integration with ProTools, which I use every day. I believe that George's *endorsement* of that product, at least via his purchase, is similar to my feelings about it. It's time for me, at least, to dive into this way of working to see if it will fulfill my needs. I believe that it will. And I'm thrilled about the possibilities. My room should be finished with all audio wiring and outboard integration by the middle of November, and I'll report my thoughts as I get further into it.

Best wishes to all here...and great to hear from you, George! I can't wait to see pics of your new room.

John Van Nest
Resonate Music Studios

[DDD]

"my job is to make music sound great and to not whine too much"

George

[Shaman]

Originally Posted by xqtion

...Mr Massenberg,...
.

C´mon guys.....his name is MassenBURG

[gml]

Originally Posted by jindrich

your arguments are valid, but i see a few flaws.

1) a 100k SSL in good condition will hardly need any maintenance, except for the plasma meters and moving faders. Easy, get one with VU instead and clean the faders in low hours.

you don't really believe this, do you?

2) a 100k ICON will be worth NOTHING in 5 years, whereas a 100k SSL could be sold for say 50k after those 5 years. so you can spend as much as 50k in electricity to make things even.

look, i don't care if you buy an Icon or not. i can say authoritatively that i get nothing for saying anything nice about the Icon or Digidesign. but i can tell you that because the Icon is a controller and there's no doubt that future DSP development will as a matter of policy be made to adapt to it, that i have every confidence that it will not be worth nothing in 5 years. now, the DSP i'm buying today will be worth considerably less. if the Kurzweil-revised Moore's law is any predictor, it wil be worth between 1/30th and 1/40th of it's current purchase price in 5 years. but this has been the case for several years now...we know it's happening and we are strategizing and budgetting accordingly...insofar as we can.

3) in every single european country except UK (where there is plenty) , if you have a SSL desk you're IN. You get clients for that reason alone (even if the board is broken).

just a few thoughts. but they, i LOVE fully autoreset in 1 second (ICON) instead of 1 hour (SSL). I'd buy an ICON tomorrow if they were cheaper. 100k is a big sum of a mistake these days (= read, if you fail on the election, you're done)

to GM,
[...]
ps: waiting impatiently for your dynamics plugin

it's coming...
GM

[DirkB]

Hi George,

Very cool of you to take the time and resprond in this sometimes a little overheated discussion.

Would you share some info as to how much (if any?) outboard you are using during mixing and how you incorporate it in the Icon setup?
Stock digi converters?
Do you use outboard on the stereo bus?

Greetings,
Dirk

[gml]

Originally Posted by DirkB

Hi George,

Very cool of you to take the time and resprond in this sometimes a little overheated discussion.

Would you share some info as to how much (if any?) outboard you are using during mixing and how you incorporate it in the Icon setup?

well, i've been using alot of outboard gear. for digital peripherals, i invariably use a TC6K and Sony 777, and a couple of custom boxes, including a prototype "Spatializer" that never got built and marketted. for analog, i use piles of stuff: GML DRC's for compression most of the time, but also Manley VariMu's, Distressors, Fatsos, Neves, old junk like RCA BA-6s, A&Ds & Fairchilds. i still use live "chambers", from purpose-built rooms to ambient areas that i just kind of like.

Stock digi converters?

yup

Do you use outboard on the stereo bus?

yup. analog. either GML or Manley

Greetings,
Dirk

thanks,
George

[Rob G]

Duardo, & All,

Quote: "Please don't take what I said the wrong way. Of course you have the right to express your opinion, as does everyone here. You just seemed a little surprised at how strongly people had reacted to your statements and I thought that might be why. Having said that, though, do you really not think that things like "Poor guy(George Massenburg)!" and "You snooze you loose" come across as confrontational or at least aggressive?

I realized you weren't addressing him specifically, but he is in the proverbial room."

-Duardo



Maybe from your perspective, or others it might have come across as confrontational, or agressive but from mine it was'nt. I'm from the state of New Jersey in the USA. People from the tri-state area(New York, New Jersey, Conneticut) come across as somewhat abrasive by nature at times. But, I apologize to all if anyone was offended. Let's agree to disagree.

Rob G..

P.S.: Back to topic.

[C.Lambrechts]

just wanted to say thank you Mr. Massenburg for taking the time to participate in this thread. Very very much apreciated.

[DirkB]

Originally Posted by C.Lambrechts

just wanted to say thank you Mr. Massenburg for taking the time to participate in this thread. Very very much apreciated.

Fully agreed. And although I know George has his own forum, a suggest Jules try to get him to gest moderate overhere on GS. Especially with the new format introduced now with MHB moderating, it really is one of the coolest things on the internet .

Greetings,
Dirk

[zboy2854]

Originally Posted by gml

...and am continuing to develop my Dynamic Range Controller code.

Mmmm, GML compressor plugin, ahlghghlghghghghgh......

[MJGreene Audio]

Having mixed in the box for most of the last 6 years I can say my life was changed when I bought the Massenburg eq. It was everything that I was looking for in a precision eq that just wasn't there before. (To my ears the Sony is nice but its just not the Massenburg).

If the dynamics plug in is even half the quality of the eq then I will be in heaven.

Who needs Viagra when you have the Massenburg dynamics coming!!!!

Michael Greene

P.S. Jeff Carter in Salt Lake says to tell you hello.

[BobbyPeru]

Originally Posted by gml

well, i've been using alot of outboard gear. for digital peripherals, i invariably use a TC6K and Sony 777, and a couple of custom boxes, including a prototype "Spatializer" that never got built and marketted. for analog, i use piles of stuff: GML DRC's for compression most of the time, but also Manley VariMu's, Distressors, Fatsos, Neves, old junk like RCA BA-6s, A&Ds & Fairchilds. i still use live "chambers", from purpose-built rooms to ambient areas that i just kind of like.
yup

yup. analog. either GML or Manley

thanks,
George

George,

Is your stereo bus going back into PT from the GML or the Manley or are you going to 1/2" or 1" 2 track? If so which type machine?

Bobby Peru
Milwaukee, WI

[Jules]

Originally Posted by DirkB

Fully agreed. And although I know George has his own forum, a suggest Jules try to get him to gest moderate overhere on GS. Especially with the new format introduced now with MHB moderating, it really is one of the coolest things on the internet .

Greetings,
Dirk

Good idea, I have been hinting but will extend a formal invitation without delay..

[The MPCist]

Originally Posted by Jules

Good idea, I have been hinting but will extend a formal invitation without delay..

GM, moderator for the month!!! YEAH! I'll be looking forward to that!!!

thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup

[mwagener]

I went down there on Monday. I have never heard a room with such detailed separation between the instruments, sounds absolutely wonderful. George is using a 5.1 set up with ATC speakers ($$$$$$$) and the room acoustics are based on diffusion rather than absorbtion, unbelievable. Luckily my HYDROGYN mixes sounded very close to what I heard at my place which also got confirmed at mastering yesterday.

About the Icon: the Icon is just another recording/mixing tool like anything else in a studio. If you choose to work with PT, the Icon is a great extension of the system (even if an expensive one). A far as I am concerned George could have a wire recorder in there and still make it sound good. Of course racks full of Massenburg gear don't hurt

Blackbird is one of THE hippest facilities in town. The rooms are absolutely beautiful, sound great and they all have the connection to Blackbird Audio Rental where most of us would go just looking at the mic locker (27 original U47s to start), never mind the pre-amp and outboard shelves. When it's all done, Blackbird will have one of each current consoles in different rooms, great facility to work through a whole project. Just start tracking your drums on the API, do the overdubs on a Neve and mix it on the Icon or an SSL 9K ...and while tracking you are able to use one of their 17 (seventeen) drum kits, everything is under one (big) roof, cool place. And the peiople running the place are super nice and know exactly what they are talking about, very pro setup. No wonder George likes it there.

[beyarecords]

Originally Posted by themaidsroom

as for massenburg, he was making thin sounding records back in 1989 -
this will be no departure.......

Never, Ever, have I heard anyone describe an Earth Wind and Fire Production as 'thin sounding'!!!

[davebl@dircon.c]

ICON is a very fine controler, I dont see what the problem is here. It is not an audio processor, George's Plugin(s) and others from Sony and other great vendors handle this for us in the modern world. Get on and make some music......

[Sigma]

Originally Posted by Lynn Fuston

I'd take George Massenburg with a Mackie over lots of other engineers on Neves anyday.

ditto..

[raal]

so it's almost been 2 years now... any news on the GML dynamics plug?

[lefthando]

Originally Posted by SIGMA

ditto..

"Ditto"

Holy smokes it's been a long time since I've heard that! Far out!

[huub]

Originally Posted by BobRick

AMS-Neve were/are being sued for overly faulty consoles by a company here in Australia that purchased two Libras. Apparently they have been nothing but paper weights...

Our companies two libra lives are collecting dust at the distributors (had to replace em due to complete unreliability).
Another (belgian) company too replaced their libra with a Lawo, and their libra is collecting dust in their storage..
No outside broadcast company is using a libra anymore.. They utterly suck.. (They did sound prety nice though..)

[Shaman]

When gm was in munich for a workshop this spring we saw & heard a prototype of his dynamics plugin. Graphic wise it looked like a modification of the digi comp. with the typical gml Peak/fast/slow metering.

His mixes sounded stellar without doubt but I couldn´t get a real impression which part his new comp. played.

It seems he changed his tracking philosophy a bit since he was here last time ( 3 years ago). Then he seemed to track to stock digi converters by compressing the shit out of his signals to use as much AD resolution as he could get.
His thinking on digital compressors was a bit pessimistic ( mailnly to do with the loss of resolution) then.

He states that he compresses a lot less since he has his new prism ADA8X converters which in his words have much better resolution at low signal levels + he seems to rely much more on his new comp. algorithm..
I even had the impression he now uses exclusively the plugincomp....

I´m sure he went deeply into digital comp. algorithm design and still is in the process of optimizing.
Everyone who ever used gml products knows how high George Massenburg´s quality standards are so he won´t release the plugin until it´s perfect in his ears. His mdw EQ is just brilliant (though I don´t want to miss my 8200...).

Mabye he´s waiting until digi will release a 64 bit based mixing engine for PT which would make sense using for a highly advanced dynamics algorithm.

[Jules]

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[Shaman]

Yes - and the Suzanne Vega record sounds great too BTW

[waxx]

first i'm an amateur engineer with little experience on an Icon, but suddenly i started to like PT (i was a hater, and still am without an Icon) when i was doing a track on it. If it just was a bit cheaper (Digi in general) it would be a nice setup to have.

But to my opinion, an good midclass SSL or Euphonix digital mixer with a good DAW is a better buy for going digital if you consider economics. The icon could become incompatible with future PT versions in a short time, if you know Digi's history of updates ...