API 512c - Vintech 273

[Michel199]

Hi


I'll have the oportunity in a few weeks to test for recording vocals and acoustic guitar the API512c or the Vintech 273. I'll have to choose one of the two.
Do somebody know these preamps ? What will be their differences ?Wich of the two might be best ?
My mic is a Rode NT1-A.


Michel199

[Jamz]

I have 2 API 512s and love them.
Not familar with the Vintech but can't go wrong with the API IMO.

[stratton]

I'm checking out the 512C now. Nice pre, but not enough character for my pop/rock projects for lead vocals.

Ken

[Jamz]

I've not tried but read the Chandler TG-2 has a lot of color.

[zarembo]

Originally Posted by stratton

... not enough character.....Ken

geez man, you must really be looking for some kind of character if the
api doesn't cut it like a knife

just my observation as I'm a in love with it

but for color in rock stuff yes the word on the street is Chandler

[stratton]

Originally Posted by zarembo

geez man, you must really be looking for some kind of character if the
api doesn't cut it like a knife

just my observation as I'm a in love with it

but for color in rock stuff yes the word on the street is Chandler

It "cuts" well, but I want it to "sit" in the mix where a rock lead vocal should. Yeah, Chandler LTD-1 would be more the ticket. I'm also listening to the Neve Portico 5012 and so far like it better for lead vocals.

Michael's dilemma is that the API would be great for the acoustric guitar and the Vintech for the lead vocal. The slutty thing to do would be to get both somehow.

Ken

[superburtm]

API vs. Vintech?? c'mon

[msrecprod]

I know everyone here is on a Vintech sucks trip, but, If I was doing gereral overdubs I would take the Vintech. Api pres tend to be darker, and a little muddier in the mids. If these are going to be your only pre's then your going to end up with a lot of trash in the low mids. If overdubing with the API I would also be affraid of the midrange not being as defined as with the Vintechs. I do love API pres, but only for certain things.

[squeegybug]

I've not used API. Vintech can be reasonable on acoustic, typically has a pretty open sound. Here are some samples that includes 473, see if you can pick it out vs Great River, Neve Portico, and Vintech 1272: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php3?t=42098

Steve

[stratton]

Originally Posted by msrecprod

I know everyone here is on a Vintech sucks trip, but, If I was doing gereral overdubs I would take the Vintech. Api pres tend to be darker, and a little muddier in the mids. If these are going to be your only pre's then your going to end up with a lot of trash in the low mids. If overdubing with the API I would also be affraid of the midrange not being as defined as with the Vintechs. I do love API pres, but only for certain things.

API 512C, dark and muddy??

[NathanEldred]

Originally Posted by squeegybug

I've not used API. Vintech can be reasonable on acoustic, typically has a pretty open sound. Here are some samples that includes 473, see if you can pick it out vs Great River, Neve Portico, and Vintech 1272: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php3?t=42098

Steve

The Vintech translates to voice and overheads in a similar way as that sample (sample #1) of acoustic guitar on that thread....and a raw sample on an acoustic guitar can tell you a lot about a mic preamp (as can overheads in particular). To the original poster, the best way to know which you like better is try them both out at your place though (regardless of what people on the forums say one way or the other).

[murp]

Originally Posted by stratton

API 512C, dark and muddy??

Agreed - I have a 3124+ which, from what I hear, is very similar, if not exactly the same. I can't say I've ever heard anything dark and muddy coming out of it, unless of course what was put into it was dark and muddy...

[Michel199]

Hello

A BIG thank you to all for your replies ! I've managed with the dealer to get both preamps for testing , I must admit that I'll take this opportunity to record the vocals for the next CD ;-)

I'll see what will sound best for me, as someone mentioned it, it will be my main preamp as I'm not rich enough to buy several units like some of you guys. My preamp for the time being is a TL Audio Dual Channel Valve Preamp / DI, it's an old dog ( more than 10 years) and It's my only reference.

Michel199

[u b k]

Originally Posted by msrecprod

Api pres tend to be darker, and a little muddier in the mids. If these are going to be your only pre's then your going to end up with a lot of trash in the low mids. If overdubing with the API I would also be affraid of the midrange not being as defined as with the Vintechs.

wow, we really do hear things very differently!

my take on the 512 is that it is very mid-forward with crystal clear hi's. the low-mids are smooth, if a bit light. i can't describe anything i've ever heard by api as muddy, and while the newer consoles can get a little grungy (in a good way) in the mids, the pre's themselves don't seem to have that characteristic.

api pre's are ridiculously fast, so their transient detail is fantastic. that's why i love them on drums, and why (imo) they sound so punchy in general.

i have zero experience with vintechs, although in the thread with the acoustic guitar clips they held their own against the great river just fine, and to my ears smoked the portico.


gregoire
del ubik

[u b k]

this is me erasing a duplicate post. nothing to see, move along.

[Jamz]

Originally Posted by msrecprod

Api pres tend to be darker, and a little muddier in the mids. If these are going to be your only pre's then your going to end up with a lot of trash in the low mids. If overdubing with the API I would also be affraid of the midrange not being as defined as with the Vintechs. I do love API pres, but only for certain things.

Wow! this is where your ears are required to make the decision. I personally could never describe the API pre as "darker, and a little muddier in the mids".
I feel they are a solid sounding pre with great mids. Especially, for electric guitar and drums. YMMV
I'm sure the Vintech is a fine pre as well.

[Jem]

I think I'd be upgrading my mic before I even thought about buying an API pre if I was in your situation. I've never been a fan of NT-1's, especially on vocals. Depending on the singer, song etc... it may rock but I've never had the planets align in such a way.

[Michel199]

Hello

I'm very satisfied with the NT1-A especially on my voice, but I must admit that my experience in the mic domain is restricted (money money..).

I saw a thread about a Royer Mic (Ribbon ?)..

What would be your advice for a good mic ? I cannot afford the U87 and alike mics.

Is there a middle solution ? Besides won't you think that upgrading to the API 512c will make any difference ?


Michel199

[Jem]

I do think that upgrading to an API will make a difference, just not as much as changing the actual mic itself. I just found the NT-1 to be a bit harsh to my ears. I think a royer would be a nice mic to own but then you will no doubt encounter problems trying to find enough gain to run it without a ton of noise (an expensive pre, lots of money...). If the NT-1 works for your voice then thats cool and you obviously wont need to change mics but I still think it would be worth your while to at least try a few mics out. There are plenty of mid priced options out there that would greatly improve the sound of vocals. Anyway, thats just my opinion because my experiences with the NT-1 haven't been as successful as yours. Hope you find the sound you're after. thumbsup

[Fletcher]

Originally Posted by Michel199

I'm very satisfied with the NT1-A especially on my voice, but I must admit that my experience in the mic domain is restricted

There is the biggest understatement of this thread... well, so far, it's still early.

[Michel199]

Well, before owning the Rode I had (and still have) an AKG C3000, and the Rode is more clear for my voice wich has a bass tone.
My first mic was a Neumann KM 184. But I sadely sold it, it was nice for guitars.

I've played with other mics on studio as a musician for other artists, but at that time I was not interrested in having a HomeStudio, so I never checked out what were those mics or preamps, my mistake, I could have learned.....




Michel199

[Jamz]

I have to agree with Jem. My first upgrade would be the mic.
To me the Rode is a little thin and produces a scratchy top end. Especially, when pushed.
The NT-1 is around $200. and a Royer 121 is more than 5x that amount.
I love the 121. Lately, I've been using it on vocals with excellent reults.
However, not sure if it's flexible enough to be your one and only mic. Could be though, that mic continues to surprise me. Everyday is another learning experience.

Just some options if your budget is around $1k or so:

1.- Spend entire budget on a mic.
Check Ebay for a good used mic or take a look at the Mojave MA-200 which David Royer has released. I've heard good things about it and it retails for $995. Of course you should do your own search as well and define what is "good" for yourself.
And if you've defined the Rode NT-1 as good for you...then F##k me.

2.- Split your budget between a mic and Pre.
Something like an AT 4055 with Groove Tubes The Brick pre might work for you.

3.- Spend entire budget on a mic pre.
Something along the lines of GREAT RIVER ME-1NV Mic Pre might fit the bill.

Good luck.
Once you start it never ends.

[zimv20]

Originally Posted by Jamz

2.- Split your budget between a mic and Pre.
Something like an AT 4055 with Groove Tubes The Brick pre might work for you.

another suggestion: shure ksm32 ($500) + fmr rnp ($475)

[insomnio]

Originally Posted by zimv20

another suggestion: shure ksm32 ($500) + fmr rnp ($475)

Nice one.
My vote is for: AT4047 + API

_______________________
I

[jbuntz]

Either will sound fine. Don't kill yourself on the decision.