Trying To Choose A High Quality Handheld Dynamic Mic For Live Jazz Vocals

[Bobby Lynn]

Greetings Fellow Gear Hounds!
I'm in the market for a high-end handheld dynamic mic for jazz vocals. It will be used primarily in small to medium size jazz clubs here in NYC as well as private parties. I'll have piano, guitar and upright bass backing me up, and sometimes drums. I guess the tone of my voice (according to my wife anyway) is in the Bobby Darin neighborhood. I realize the singer's voice plays a big role in choosing the right mic, so perhaps that may serve as a guide. You can check out my actual singing voice here: CDBaby | Bobby Lynn | Five Bar Romp I realize there are any number of great handheld condensors out there, but I'm not interested in any of them at this time. I want a dynamic in order minimize the possibilty of feedback as well as to avoid being at the mercy of the phantom power coming off a club's board. Also, I happen to like dynamics. I THINK I'd like to choose a mic which has some color to it. Something warm and silky without being overly shrill or bright. But I could be dead wrong about that. I THINK I've ruled out hypercardioids, since they seem to have a rather boomy proximity effect and I tend to get very close when singing. Plus, my aim's not always good enough while performing for such a narrow polar pattern as a hypercardioid's. But I could be dead wrong about that, too. After an EXHAUSTIVE search, I have narrowed my list down to the mics listed below. I would very much appreciate any feedback any of you might be able to provide with regards to your experiences with any of these mics. They are all under $500, so price is not an issue. I've chosen the "High End" forum since these mics clearly represent the "High End" when it comes to handheld dynamics. I will provide a brief synopsis of what I know (or don't know) about each mic. To avoid the appearance of showing any perceived front runners, I will list each mic by weight (starting with the lightest).

1. Sennheiser MD-431 ii (Supercardioid, 250 grams)

Got to audition one of these last week at Dale Pro Audio here in NYC. (Thanks, Mike Straus.) The first thing I noticed was how incredibly lightweight it is when holding it. It's also longer than most handhelds. The recessed On/Off switch felt good when switching it back and forth, and it seemed rather unlikely that I could inadvertantly turn it off while performing. Mike plugged it into a Grace 201 mic pre and nothing else to insure an "uncolored" signal path and then handed me a pair of Sony headphones. (the model every studio that has Sony uses..) The first thing I noticed was the sheer transparency of the tone. No part of the frequency response seemed boosted or cut. The proximity effect was not very pronounced, either. This seemed like a good thing when I got right on top of it and sang very loud. It just wouldn't distort. I was also very pleased with the bass response. When I held a note at the bottom of my range, it was surprisingly big, round and full without being boomy. I have to admit that I was very impressed by that. The only negative I could come up with was that the mic for the most part lacked any real color or character of its own. (Except perhaps for the way it handled my lower register...) It was for the most part, as I already mentioned, VERY transparent. I liked the look of this mic, too. It definitely says, "Bling" to a certain extent, and looked as though it would not look out of place in a suit and tie jazz setting. I seemed to naturally hold it so that the On/Off switch was facing me - and this made a white emblem on the bottom of the mic face the audience. I wasn't too excited about that, as I don't want the appearance of the mic to distract the audience. I know this sounds nit picky, but hey, this IS Gearslutz!!! FWIW, I recently had a dream where my deceased grandmother told me to go with this mic. She was a dime-a-dance girl during the Roaring Twenties, and she always had impeccable judgement.

2. Milab D-37 (Cardioid, 290 grams)

What a great Swedish company! What great mics they've been making by hand in Sweden for years! Problem is, it's impossible to find out anything about this mic except for what is on the Milab website. Plus, I just found out from their new U.S. distributor that the D-37 has been discontinued. They are also unaware of any new Milab dynamic to replace it. No more Milab dynamics? What has the world come to???!!! Can anyone out there tell me anything about their experiences with this mic? The Milab site talks about how bright it is, or how great it is with high frequencies. I've also heard it has alot of presence to it. Is this what I want for achieving silky jazz vocals? Hey, it could be just the ticket. But someone will need to school me in order to convince me. I want to like this mic, but I know so little about it.


3. Heil PR-35 (Supercardioid, 298 grams)

Haven't been able to get my paws on one of these to check it out, but have read everything there is to read about it on the internet. This seems to be a favorite for many. I like the idea of a rubber exterior for comfort's sake. Someone once commented to me that rubber on mics makes them look cheap - like an old Radio Shack mic. I'm not sure how I feel about that. My impression of the appearance of this mic is that it is very understated. No bling factor here with regards to looks. There's a 3 position bass rolloff switch and I read somewhere that the best setting is the -6db setting. Flat can apparently be too boomy and -12db can be a bit too much rolloff. The fact that this switch exists could very well be welcomed in certain rooms, but I don't know if I would always trust myself knowing which setting is most appropriate. I've also seen someone comment that this mic can be very bright, but most seem to love its wide open and detailed sound. Gotta love the aluminum carry case! Would like to know if this mic has a "color" of its own, and if that color would be well suited for jazz vocals. Too bad I haven't been able to audition this mic, as it is clearly a "web favorite". But is it warm and silky?

4. Beyerdynamic M69-TG (Hypercardioid, 320 grams)

Got to audition this at Dale Pro Audio as well (thanks Mike...) and this is what made me conclude that a hypercardioid is probably not the best choice for my intended application. While the Sennheiser MD-431 ii sounded like an uncolored representation of my voice, the Beyerdynamic M69-TG sounded like a mic. It had a real color to it. The mids seemed scooped while the highs and lows were quite accentuated. I liked this tone, but I quickly noticed how easy it was for me to overload it. I concluded that for all the desirable personality of this mic's tone, I didn't feel I could trust myself with it. I can get very close to a mic while singing and my dynamics can be all over the place. I also dug the look, weight and feel of this mic. There's no question about the quality of Beyerdynamics. But, the hypercardioid pattern seemed to work against my singing style at times.

5. Telefunken M80 (Cardioid, 371 grams)

Gotta love the way this thing looks. That Telefunken logo is the coolest logo in the biz, and once again I'm drawn to the comfort of the rubberized exterior. I also like the studio edition which comes with a black grill just in case you become blinded by the standard chrome grill. I also like the fact that there's no switch to be found anywhere - just plug it in and sing! Hey, doesn't that simplify the circuitry? Enough about looks, how does she sound? Well, if you go on to the M80's own website and check out the vocal audio sample available, you are likely to immediately eliminate this mic from your list. It's the worst sounding sample you could imagine, and Telefunken will be the first to admit it. (They've already agreed that it's awful.) They will re-post new samples soon. Unfortunately, this ridiculously awful sounding sample caused me to reconsider buying this mic. I really WANT to like this mic, but I can't get my hands on one to test it and that sound sample sent me sprinting for the hills! I know that Green Day, Phish and The (Resurrected) Dead are all using this mic. I also know it has a custom made step up output transformer made by Oliver. I've also heard things like, "it kinda already has a nice built-in EQ to it." Man, do I want to like this mic! But do I really? Help!!!

6. Microtech Gefell MD 100 (Cardioid, 375 grams)
Microtech Gefell MD 110 (Supercardioid, 375 grams)

No real dealer in the United States. Mercenary might order one for you but you're on your own if you don't like it. Google it and your computer screen starts laughing at you. I mean, there's NOTHING, NOTHING on the web about these mics. Any dealer in Europe that sells them just repeats what's on the MG website. But let's, just for a moment, set all that aside. Ooooooo, ahhhhh, it's a Gefell!!!!!!! Damn! It's a Gefell!!!! It's GOTTA be amazing, no? It's a Gefell! On a side note, which do you all believe is theoretically better for my application - cardioid or supercardioid? My Nashville engineer friend says "cardioid" for a fuller sound and more pronounced proximity effect with just as much feedback rejection. Can we all agree to that? Hey, at least Gefell gives you the choice. If you have used either of these mics I beg you for your feedback. I see this mic as the "Gibson Moderne" of dynamic heldhelds. It's an enigma. And, of course, all that does is make me think I gotta have it. But what's the real story regarding these handheld Gefells?

[surflounge]

The KSM 9, Heil PR 22 and 35, and even better the 965 will fit the bill.

[vitreouswindows]

Take a look at the Schoeps CMH64. It's expensive, but very nice. I have one with the omni capsule.

[tmcconnell]

I have recently bought on behalf of my studio clients who perform live a lot, several dynamic mics, and so had the chance to test/hear them both live and in studio, and compare some of them. Its true different mics will be better with different voices.

The md421 (and 441) sound great on Male Vocal. I think the rejection is a little skanky, but I don't think that will matter in a quiet club - a contender. The only issue is it isn't exactly a classic hand held form factor. Keep it in a stand and you are ok. They also have a reputation for being a little delicate.

The EV ND series are nice for male Vocal. They take a licking and keep on ticking.

I just bought 4 different heil mics. PR 40 - forget it for live vocal. PR 30 - not the form factor you might want but might sound perfect. PR 35 - a high end hand held but its got a big ass high end bump - it might sound nasty on your voice - or be perfect. The PR20 might be your answer - this baby is cheap, and classy. Relatively flat compared to some of the other PR series, made for live vocals. I think its a steal. Its almost worth buying one just to try. They are also made like tanks + won't feedback much - great rejection. They also have some immunity to proximity effect which means that when you pull back for a loud note, you won;t lose all your low end. This is a nice feature only found in industry standard DJ mics like the RE 20. Don't forget the re20, by the way. Also not handheld, but smooth, controlled proximity effect, etc. Standard radio Mic.

Going to even mellower and silkier - don't forget the venerable beyer m201. This is also not a handheld vocal mic, but is a studio standard dynamic mic. Rugged. It ships with a big ass foam pop screen.. so use as a vocal mic was clearly envisioned by the designers, and could be hand held. In my comparisons it smoked every handheld in my collection for sheer sweetness and smoothness on a female client's voice. However, it is relatively flat and might not bring out as much high end as you need. It rolls off high enough that it won't rumble, but low enough to capture those baritone moments.

I think that for jazz , you want something smooth and not too bright. You might want to buy an hour at a decent studio and just check out a bunch of them. Most of the Handheld condensers I've used are a little bright - and will be prone to feed back. They will sound great in studio - but beware. Also keep in mind that most PA systems esp the cheap ones used in clubs are a little bit high endy or scooped.

BTW, and I hesitate to say this, the sm57 sounds grainy compared to to pr20, pr30, the 201, the 441, the 421, and the re20. Yes, I know famous people have used sm57's and 58's to make great records, but all manner of cheap gear has made great music on occasion. t

[Fletcher]

You're in New York City... Alto Music has an office in NYC [and one or two outside the city]... give them a call and get a demo of the M80.

Yes, the samples on the site suck. So what. They are TOTALLY IRRELEVANT to your voice anyway.

You should try a bunch of stuff ON YOUR VOICE, IN APPLICATION before you make a decision... sound samples on websites ARE BULLSHIT to your reality.

Period.

End of story.

Always have been, always will be.

If for some reason Alto doesn't have one that is convenient for you, shoot me an email and I will make it easy for them to get you one.

If you hear it for yourself I'd say there is a chance you will like it... or you may prefer one of the other ones on your list [TRY THEM ALL!!! MAKE AN EDUCATED DECISION!!!].

Opinions on this site are like assholes... everyone has one, most of them stink. The only opinion that matters is yours... so seriously, give it a whirl, give them all a whirl, find the microphone that helps you hear what you would like to hear from your voice and [hopefully] inspires you to elevate your performance to the next level.

You can ONLY make that determination through personal experience.

Peace.

[Don S]

When Bob and Pam Ackerman go out on gigs, she loves the senn 431. Any venue from festivals to clubs, apparently she won't leave home without it.

[Bobby Lynn]

When I saw that Fletcher had replied to my post, I started shaking in my loafers! I can only liken the sensation to coming face to face with The Great Wizard for the first time. Thanks to all who have replied thusfar. Fletcher, I can't agree with you more when you say that the ONLY way to really get to the bottom of all this is to try these mics out for myself. Thanks for the tip about where to try out the M80. Thanks also to tmcconnell for the heads up on the m201. Keep the comments coming; but I will most definitely heed the thoughtful advice of The Great And Powerful Fletcher. (May he NEVER remove those Vargas girls from his renowned website.)

[wrekdahouse]

Hello, i reccomend you to try the beyerdynamic M88 for that application.
hypercardioid, extended frec response. very strong built.

yours sincerely,

Patricio

[stereosaint]

i definitely recommend the neumann ksm 105.

almost sounds like a large diaphragm studio microphone.

[Jimbo]

Originally Posted by Bobby Lynn

When I saw that Fletcher had replied to my post, I started shaking in my loafers! I can only liken the sensation to coming face to face with The Great Wizard for the first time. <snip> but I will most definitely heed the thoughtful advice of The Great And Powerful Fletcher.

Oh my!

[Fletcher]

Originally Posted by Bobby Lynn

May he NEVER remove those Vargas girls from his renowned website.

It is not my website, and those are not Vargas girls... pin up art - yes; Vargas - no [though Vargas is one of my favorite "pin up" artists the images are too expensive to license... my absolute favorite pin-up artist is "Bill Ward" so if you're into pin-up art you should really check out some of his work!!!].

As another poster mentioned in this thread, I would appreciate it if you got your nose out of my ass. I'm just another asshole with an opinion that may or may not be relevant to your reality. If some of my posts have been of assistance to you I am happy to help. The "great and powerful" thing is just plain embarrassing.

There are many who post on this site with as much if not more experience than me. There are a great majority who have far less experience, but that doesn't make their opinion any less valid... it just means they have a more limited pallet of perspective from which to draw.

BTW... the Beyer M-88 suggestion is a good one and you should keep that in mind as you decide on mics to audition.

Peace.

[88fingerz]

You might be overthinking this. The Shure Beta 58 will do the job great!

[frans]

Beyerdynamic M88 - try it. Don't be put off by the facts that you can use it for kickdrum (and manymany other things) as well and that it's allegedly Phil Collins vocal mic of choice.


And MY fav pinup artist is still Vargas. Elvgren comes close ;-)

[Bobby Lynn]

Fletcher, please accept my apology. I feel very badly for embarrassing you. That was not my intent. In fact, I was only making what was evidently a lame attempt at tongue-in-cheek humor. I've read so many of your comments over the years that you've become somewhat of a mythical figure in my head. Your comments are usually very insightful, and sometimes downright hilarious. It's obvious to me (and I'm sure to many others) that you tend to know what you're talking about. I guess, like a little kid, I got a little too excited when you replied to my post. And for that I would like to apologize to you and to everyone else. It is interesting, Fletcher, that you and a few others have brought up the Beyerdynamic M88-TG to me. I am very intrigued with that mic, as well. When I auditioned the M69-TG, I concluded that since they are both hypercardioids, the M88-TG is probably similar with regards to its proximity effect. Perhaps I was wrong to assume that and should check one out for myself. As I previously mentioned, I'm not sure if I could trust myself with the M69-TG, given its pronounced proximity effect. It seemed somewhat easy to overload it when I got close and sang louder. I tend to instictively hold the mic close to my mouth when I sing. Is it possible that the M88-TG's proximity effect isn't as pronounced? I read somewhere that the designers of the Telefunken M80 used the M88 as a sort of benchmark in what they were shooting for. Or something to the effect that they had a lot of respect for this mic and were using it to compare what the M80 should be capable of achieving. Interestingly enough, if this is true, the M80 is a cardioid (albeit a tight cardioid) while the M88 is and always has been a hypercardioid. Am I making too much of this hypercardioid thing? An audio engineer told me that a hypercardioid pattern's enlarged rear lobe makes it MORE susceptible to onstage feedback. I notice that ALL Audix handheld dynamics are hypercardioid, and lots of singers use them. So hypercardioids can't be all that bad for live vocals, no? Am I missing something here? There was so much I liked about the M69-TG. It had a real nice color to it, it felt and looked great, but when I got close and sang a bit louder, it overloaded rather easily. Has anyone else noticed this about the M69-TG? Does the M88-TG act the same way, or is it a completely different beast?

[jmikeperkins]

Does it have to be a dynamic mic? If you could open things up to phantom powered condenser mics, you would have even more choices to confuse you, things like the Neumann KMS 105.

But seriously, you need to demo mics with your own voice before you take someone's advice on what to buy. You never know what might work best and a live setting in a small club is very different than recording vocals in a studio. For one thing, feedback rejection becomes VERY IMPORTANT in a live setting. There is nothing worse than a P.A. feeding back and blasting your audience.

I am a performing singer songwriter guitar player and I perform 1-2 times a week in Houston. I also own a studio, I am a certified Gearslut, and I own at least 30 mics including 7 expensive vintage Neumanns. But after years of trying everything, when I go to perform LIVE, the best thing for my voice is a $100 Shure SM58 (with at least one dent in the windscreen). Its not slutty, but it just sounds the best for me in a CLUB SETTING (but never in a studio) and the SM58 gives me great gain before feedback.

J. Mike Perkins

[ElevenShadows]

Originally Posted by Bobby Lynn

[FONT=Georgia] I've read so many of your comments over the years that you've become somewhat of a mythical figure in my head. <snip> I guess, like a little kid, I got a little too excited when you replied to my post.

Easy. Dang, if you ever call Mercenary to buy something and he answers, you'll pee yourself.

As for your original question, I don't know any of those mics, but I own two Heil PR30s, obviously not the same model, and love them. They've become workhorse mics for me in my recording studio, and can often sound good on vocals.

[Macky]

As your in NYC, there,s a strong possibility you can pick up an old Shure SM59.
It has a built in humbucker, so you can have a long (50ft) cable on it with minimum feedback.
It looks cool too.
http://www.prosoundweb.com/images/uploads/ShureSM59.jpg

[Karloff70]

Try AKG 535 EB or Beyerdynamic M500 perhaps?

[avebr]

Originally Posted by tmcconnell

(...) The md421 (and 441) sound great on Male Vocal. I think the rejection is a little skanky, but I don't think that will matter in a quiet club - a contender. The only issue is it isn't exactly a classic hand held form factor. Keep it in a stand and you are ok. They also have a reputation for being a little delicate.

+1 thumbsup on the Sennheiser MD 441.

Amazing sound for a dynamic mic!



All the best,
ave.

[Bobby Lynn]

I realize there are many fantastic handheld condensors out there. Some of you have mentioned a few of them. But I'd really like to focus on dynamics. They tend to be warmer than most condensors, and I love the simplicity and durabilty of them. There's no question that the 441 is an unbelievable dynamic. Trouble is, I need a handheld. It is rare for me to place a mic on a stand when singing jazz. So handling noise, or hopefully the lack thereof, is an important consideration. I am very accustomed to singing into supercardioids, so I'm starting to think I should narrow my list down to those. Although I would still very much like to audition an M80. It evidently has a tighter than normal cardioid pattern. (Too bad Alto Music won't allow auditions.) The Beyer M500 is another intriguing option. The trouble with that is I would prefer to have a mic which is current and would thus in theory have some sort of warranty. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if Beyer were to re-release that mic. Let's face it: if you are currently in the market for a new handheld ribbon mic suitable for lead vocals, what are you choices besides the M260? Can anybody answer that? The four mics I'd really love to audition at the same time would be the MD-431 ii, the PR-35, the M80, and the Gefell MD 110. Of those four, I've only been able to try the MD-431 ii. Something tells me that the three I haven't tried all have more color than the ultra-transparent MD-431 ii. I keep seeing comments about the M88 having an unacceptable amount of handling noise. (Wouldn't want to have to deal with that...) Anyone wish to chime in on this? And once again, can ANYONE tell me ANYTHING about the Gefell MD 110? I guess it's safe to say that being able to audition one of those is a pipe dream. I know it sounds crazy, but that Gefell is starting to dominate my thoughts about this decision. I just can't get that sexy looking piece of German engineering out of my head! I know nothing about it, can't find out anything about it, and yet feel like I'm just wreckless enough to buy one anyway and see where the chips fall. I'll say this much: If I do I promise all of you I'll post the most comprehensive review on it that I possibly can so that future gear hounds will at least know something about it!

[vernier]

If you're not into KMS-105 or VX10, just use a 58 or 57.

[Bobby Lynn]

Just look at this thing! Isn't there somebody out there who can comment on their experience with either the Gefell MD 100 (shown) or the MD 110 (supercardioid)? Your feedback would be GREATLY appreciated.

[Sinocelt]

Originally Posted by Bobby Lynn

No real dealer in the United States. Mercenary might order one for you but you're on your own if you don't like it. Google it and your computer screen starts laughing at you. I mean, there's NOTHING, NOTHING on the web about these mics.

Two years later, I did the same search ... with the same results, or lack of thereof. Aside from Gefell's own page, a page in RecordingHacks, and sellers that seldom have the mic in stock, there's nothing.

Wow. And I thought you could find everything on the Internet. I think I'm experiencing a religious crisis....

[sonic dogg]

Two years later and I'd be surprised if he didnt wind up with a KSM 105......Warm? Low handling noise? Come on.....its a frikin Neumann!

[Sinocelt]

Originally Posted by sonic dogg

Two years later and I'd be surprised if he didnt wind up with a KSM 105......Warm? Low handling noise? Come on.....its a frikin Neumann!

But it's a condenser. Even a shotgun condenser picks more surrounding noises than a dynamic.

[recorder2]

OP said JAZZ.

Beyerdynamic TG V90r above every other mic on earth in current production, case closed, end of story.

[Thumper]

Originally Posted by sonic dogg

Two years later and I'd be surprised if he didnt wind up with a KSM 105......Warm? Low handling noise? Come on.....its a frikin Neumann!

The 105 has horrible handling noise...

[Sinocelt]

Originally Posted by recorder2

OP said JAZZ.

Beyerdynamic TG V90r above every other mic on earth in current production, case closed, end of story.

I doubt he's still searching for a microphone, two years after his first post. But I was curious enough to have a look and was surprised to discover that Beyer had produced another hand-held ribbon mic than the better-known M160 and M260. [Edit:] Ah, it was launched this year. Few places sell it yet, in the States, and none has it in stock. Unsurprisingly, reviews are still non-existent. Too bad, it's an intriguing mic! [Edit:] I found a review, with audio samples!