D/A and monitors to hear quality mic and pre

[flat13]

I'm new to recording but want to get quality gear now. I just got a Gefell UM70S mic and API A2D pre-amp (both of which I can return to Mercencary if I'm not happy).

What I didn't realize, being a newbie, is that I'm hearing back via the D/A in my MBox, right? Also, my monitors (Roland DS-90A) aren't high end. So in trying to determine if I like the mic and pre sound, I'm not sure if I'm getting a good representation with the sub-par D/A and monitors. Is my logic correct?

1) If so, should I return the API and get a separate unit for conversion, like the Apogee Rosetta 200, which has both A/D and D/A? Then get a stand alone pre? I don't want to live with the MBox D/A, right?

2) Are my Roland monitors robbing me of hearing the quality of the high end gear or are they ok?

3) How about the audio in my iMac? System Profiler says "Intel High Definition Audio." Not sure if there are further specs. The machine is two years old.

My goal is to get a few great pieces for home recording of acoustic instruments and voice.

Thanks.

[bleepbleep]

yes - you definitely need to get decent speakers/monitors and sound card which does a/d and d/a in order to judge the merits of a mic and pre-amp.

the internal sound card of the iMac in not as good as the Mbox, and the Mbox is not particularly well regarded, but i have not used it myself.

the other major factor will be the acoustics of the room you are auditioning it in. if you do not have a good acoustically treated room, then it will be difficult to make a solid judgment no matter what converters, mic. pre-amp or speakers you are using. mainly becuase you are recording acoustic intruments in that room - then listening back to them. In a pro studio situation you would be recording in a treated room or a tuned room with wonderful naturual acoustics, then listening back in the control room, which would have neutral blanced acoustics. how does that compare to your current situation?

[joeydego]

Thats how Im set up here: pre into rosetta, and using rosetta for DA as well.

[flat13]

Originally Posted by bleepbleep

yes - you definitely need to get decent speakers/monitors and sound card which does a/d and d/a in order to judge the merits of a mic and pre-amp.

the internal sound card of the iMac in not as good as the Mbox, and the Mbox is not particularly well regarded, but i have not used it myself.

the other major factor will be the acoustics of the room you are auditioning it in. if you do not have a good acoustically treated room, then it will be difficult to make a solid judgment no matter what converters, mic. pre-amp or speakers you are using. mainly becuase you are recording acoustic intruments in that room - then listening back to them. In a pro studio situation you would be recording in a treated room or a tuned room with wonderful naturual acoustics, then listening back in the control room, which would have neutral blanced acoustics. how does that compare to your current situation?

I haven't done much room treatment, which is also on the list.

If I get something like the Rosetta (which has D/A also), I don't think I'll actually be using the sound card in my MAC, is that right? The D/A unit has its own?

[rocketman]

Go for the Rosetta. I've been extremely pleased with the results. Does your mbox have an spdif in/out? You'll still be using the MBox because it does not have a built in sound card feature unless you get the firewire card option.

Room treatment is just as important as anything. There are a few great books like "Home Recording Studio Build it Like the Pros" by Rod Gervais and Mitch Gallagher wrote one as well, I forget the title, but it was pretty helpful.

Cheers!

[flat13]

Originally Posted by rocketman

Go for the Rosetta. I've been extremely pleased with the results. Does your mbox have an spdif in/out? You'll still be using the MBox because it does not have a built in sound card feature unless you get the firewire card option.

Room treatment is just as important as anything. There are a few great books like "Home Recording Studio Build it Like the Pros" by Rod Gervais and Mitch Gallagher wrote one as well, I forget the title, but it was pretty helpful.

Cheers!

Thanks for the book rec.

Yes, the MBox 2 Pro has SPDIF. Looks like the optional firewire card only works for Pro Tools HD, though.

[nas]

+1 on treating you room. While getting great monitors and a DAC or very important, you will not get their full benefit if you're room is coloring your perception of the sound and not allowing you to make an accurate assessment of what you are hearing.... BTW even with a great mic and pre., your recordings will sound only as good as the source, that means the room will influence what's being recorded as well.... This point really cannot be overstated. So I agree with other posts, try to get your room happening first as it makes a HUGE difference.

What's your budget for a DAC and monitors? The Mytek Stereo96 DAC is superb and is relatively affordable compared to some of the other high end DACs. As far as monitors... really a matter of preference and budget.

[rocketman]

Originally Posted by flat13

Thanks for the book rec.

Yes, the MBox 2 Pro has SPDIF. Looks like the optional firewire card only works for Pro Tools HD, though.

Apogee has several options for cards to couple with the Rosetta series. The X-HD card is what you would use for connecting the unit to a PT-HD setup. The firewire card should work in most DAWs out there- but you shouldn't need to bother with that since your MBox has SPDIF. You're all set there. Keep in mind that if you side with the Rosetta, you'll need some way to control volume (like a Big Knob for example). Apogee also makes the Mini-DAC which has volume control on it.

As for monitors, what's your budget?

Best!

[flat13]

Originally Posted by rocketman

Apogee has several options for cards to couple with the Rosetta series. The X-HD card is what you would use for connecting the unit to a PT-HD setup. The firewire card should work in most DAWs out there- but you shouldn't need to bother with that since your MBox has SPDIF. You're all set there. Keep in mind that if you side with the Rosetta, you'll need some way to control volume (like a Big Knob for example). Apogee also makes the Mini-DAC which has volume control on it.

As for monitors, what's your budget?

Best!

I'm willing to go up to 2K for monitors.

[M4-10]

What are the dimensions of your room? If you are, for example, in a 10'x10'x10' cube then instead of spending any money on gear, put the money towards rent and move to a place where you have a better room.

Is your room set up properly? Are your monitors placed in some semblance of an equilateral triangle, with the tweeters at ear level? Are they equally distant from the walls, or are they tucked in a corner? Is your desk a reflection point, causing comb filtering? Is your computer relatively quiet, through placement, baffling, quiet fans, or better yet moving it out of the room completely?

Are the first reflection points treated with broadband absorbers? If not, make some. Then make some bass traps, especially if your room is small.

Once all that is done, consider upgrading your monitors. Until then, they'll do. It's kind of like videography: a mid-range camera with a properly lit subject will look better than an awesome camera that is unlit. Find some marketed as reference near-fields that don't hurt your ears when you play some commercial music you like, and then learn them. Monitors that you know (in a good room) are more important than monitors that are "good" or "expensive". You may find the Rolands are fine.

Only after all that is done would I even consider upgrading from the MBox 2 Pro for D/A reasons (as opposed to reasons like number of inputs or preamps). As a newbie, you can't even begin to evaluate preamps and conversion (or subtle differences between microphones) until you are in a good monitoring environment. If you keep the A2D you'll have A/D covered and have 2 wicked preamps (I've got an A2D and I love it). And I'll wager that if you are doing a lot of overdub tracking your next target will be a small decent mic collection.

[hakanai]

I would go the mytek route. actually i DID go the mytek route. i had the rosetta 200 for two years then sold it and got the mytek stereo 96 A/D and D/A. I'm not gonna get into any sound quality arguments but they are both great in that department. the real thing is feature set. it sounds to me like you would get a hell of alot more use out out of a volume pot and headphone amp then you would soft limit and sample rate conversion. it would also be modular rather than self contained and small enough to bring just the DAC with a macbook and toslink cable to work through headphones anywhere. if that's weren't reason enough, call vintage king for a quote and it should be considerably less for both than the rosetta.

spend a couple hundred over at the GIK website. from what you've said that should leave you with around 1200-2000 if i understand you correctly, and there are plenty of good monitors in that range.

sorry just re-read the first post. keep the API and just get the mytek DAC. that should be plenty snazzy for just about anything. this is pretty much the same gear i run. geffell -> API -> Mytek amongst other things but i do use that chain fairly often.

but remember this is all the opinion of a stranger who may or may not have pants on