Front of kick mic role and kick drum tuning/treatment tips??

[skylabfilmpop]

I have been experimenting with tracking drums and am getting good sounds but am curious what more experienced engineers see as the role for front of head kick mic when you use it. I have been micing a 22" Yamaha Maple custom kick with a d112 about 1-2" in from the port hole and an AT4047 about 2" off the head, offset varying amounts from center toward the ride cymbal side of the kit. In some positions the two mics sound individually fine and when combined create a lot, probably excessive bass. Whats the goal with the front head sound? Do I want the result I just described or is a complimentary sound more ideal, eg the inside mic fitting under/over/inside the outer mic in terms of frequency ? When Mixing are most of you using the front or inside mics to create the kicks low end? Should I be going more for the mid/high mid flap of the front head, or should I get the subby boom, or back it up a few feet and treat it as a close center mic?
On a similar topic, any kick treatment and tuning preferences you'd like to share would be appreciated. Most drummers I know like a loose batter and tight resonant head with varying degrees of muffling. My best result has been from fairly low tuned front batter and reso with a pillow inside. Definitely on the "let it be" side but the quick attack short sustain seems to attract me.

[Fletcher]

You should check out better mic placement, or a Littlelabs "IBP" or just pick one of the two kik tracks for the final mix or blend the two to taste or figure out on your own what the overall sonic balance should be between the two signals and get on with making records instead of posts.

As always, YMMV.

Peace.

[Ciozzi]

Originally Posted by Fletcher

You should check out better mic placement, or a Littlelabs "IBP" or just pick one of the two kik tracks for the final mix or blend the two to taste or figure out on your own what the overall sonic balance should be between the two signals and get on with making records instead of posts.

As always, YMMV.

Peace.

I really don't understand this. For once someone comes up with something that is not the usual "which is the best preamp for recording drums" and suddenly they're told to go back and make records instead of posts. What's the point of this forum then ? On the contrary I believe sharing tips, mic placements, mixing techniques and so on, is one of the best ways to experiment and improve.

BTW, to adress the original question...
The reason for me to add a second bass drum mic is that I want more low end which is something that doesn't happen very often. Condensers tend to pick up a lot of leakage, ribbons are delicate so my go to mic for this application is a Yamaha Subkick. It picks up almost nothing above 600Hz and that means less bleed and less phase problems. As for the placement I'd try to put the D112 a few inches from the batter head (3" to 4"), move it away or close to the center (or the point where the batter hits the head) if you want more or less attack.

At this point start mixing with just the D112 and if you need more low end add the other mic.

[Jules]

No pillow.
Very low edge of folded blanket (or even just a sheet) touching inside batter head
possibly tape kitchen cloth to outse head if flapping too much.
Get depth and sustain via tuning first from the actual drum - compression 2nd
remove all "dampner gadgets"

[skylabfilmpop]

I was anti pillow until I played with Petur Smith who has drummed for Jason Faulkner, Rusty Anderson, Williy Wisely and others. His pillow and moving blanket stuffed Yamaha recording custom kick kicks the snot out of everything I have heard , recorded or live. Although the treatment is admittedly in the "super ultra let it be" camp, for a lot of applications it is amazing. Again stated for some music I'd go another treatment route, and yes I have been successful with the lighter treatment route (single towel) but in some cases the pillow will stay.

On a seperate note, yes we could use a techniques forum here where folks share their takes on tradition applications. All gear and no chops means no good sound coming your way.

Listening back to the previous tracks I think the inner mic and outer are just not in the best phase which is pushing up in the high 200k range when both are on. I think the best way to go about this is to find a front kick/kit mic that gives me what I want and dial the inside mic from there. I own a Subkick but don't find it very exciting in that what I am looking for is a front head/kick sound, not just beefy sub low end. Thanks keep the input coming tho.....

[SLProductions]

Being a drummer, I tune both heads to just get the warples out, it gives the deepest sound possible while still having tone. You could also switch out different beaters for attacks. Some companies make hard plastic beaters, if you really need that much attack. I usually just prefer a felt type.

Most kicks do record best with one head, I agree with the close D112 placement though. The closer you get to the beater point, the more attack, the further, the less, etc. The D112 should, by design, should give you a good bit of attack anyway, if that's what you're looking for. Go for the Beta 52 for a more natural sound.