Preamp shootout

radiant · 8th September 2005

Here's a little shootout I did recently. It's not perfect but I thought yall might be interested in it.

Preamp1.wav
Preamp2.wav
Preamp3.wav
Preamp4.wav

I tried to get the gains as close as possible. My friend played a Taylor Acoustic and we mic'd it with a Soundelux E250 at the 12th fret and a Shure SM-81 at the hole. There are some pick taps against the body of the guitar you will have to disregard. I didn't spend any time positioning these mics for this shootout because of time but its a descent test.

Which one do you like best?

I'll post the key to the preamps later!

Kyle

wallace · 8th September 2005

I liked 1 the most. It had the most detail and presence. 3 sounded pretty good too. Some of the others seemed smeared and wooly.

What pres are they?

radiant · 8th September 2005

The preamps in this shootout are : Vintech 473, Neve Portico 5012, Great River MP-2NV, Vintech Dual 72

I'll post the key for which preamp is what when some others join in. (If they join in)

Offender · 8th September 2005

I wish you did this test on vocals.

radiant · 8th September 2005

I'll have a vocal test this weekend. I'll also be throwing in a True Systems 8 and a Martech MSS-10 in the mix.

Doublehelix · 8th September 2005

I listened through my laptop speakers, and I couldn't make a decent call. Sample #1 probably sounded best, but I wouldn't be able to tell for sure without a proper listening environment.

funka · 8th September 2005

For me it is the 4th...
Waiting to know which is which.

Blueser · 8th September 2005

I like #1 best, and then #3. That said, they all sounded great, and to me, any one of them would be acceptable! Nice job!

norman_nomad · 8th September 2005

I deff like take 1 the best... but this is tough to compare b/c there are 4 diff takes. 1 and 3 sound good during the strumming sections, but I actually preffered 4 in the picking section... could be the difference between the guitarist moving his body a couple inches one direction or another.

I think 2 was the weakest contender.

radiant · 8th September 2005

Read'em and weep:

Preamp1 = Vintech 473
Preamp2 = GR MP-2NV
Preamp3 = Portico 5012
Preamp4 = Vintech Dual 72

I personally liked the 473 1st and the Portico 2nd. I also agree that the Dual 72 sounded really good during the picking parts. The 473 had that "vibe" happening you hear on alot of records. The top-end on the Portico is definitely sweet though. I felt the Dual 72's imaging was pretty week and I felt that it didn't have as much depth. The GR seemed to capture a fuller or flatter response of the acoustic especially in the mids but it didn't have a cool vibe to it.

Of course all of this is with, as Lynn Fustin says, this mic, in this room, at this time, etc...

I think I'm going to recut the track with the GR. I hoping I can get a better performance out of it with these mics. I'll post my findings.

Kyle

nethereyes · 8th September 2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by radiant

Read'em and weep:

Preamp1 = Vintech 473
Preamp2 = GR MP-2NV
Preamp3 = Portico 5012
Preamp4 = Vintech Dual 72

I personally liked the 473 1st and the Portico 2nd. I also agree that the Dual 72 sounded really good during the picking parts. The 473 had that "vibe" happening you hear on alot of records.

OMG

stratton · 8th September 2005

I liked the 473 best over all, too, and I just bought the Portico. I'm going to try this riff with an AKG C451EB and a U67 on my Taylor just for grins.

Ken

radiant · 8th September 2005

Sounds great!

stratton · 8th September 2005

I just re-read your post: you put the LDC on the 12-fret and the SDC at the hole? I do it reverse from that, sort of. I use the AKG at the 12th fret and put the 67 on the lower bout somewhere.

Do you point the E250 directly at the hole?

Ken

radiant · 8th September 2005

I still mic it the other way as well but sometimes I get a better balance by putting the LD at the 12th fret. You don't get near the boxy sound and bottom boom you get when you point the LD at the hole. The SD seems to work well at the hole because its frequency response matches the LD a little closer now. YMMV Of course, I really never pointed the mic directly at the hole. It was always at some weird angle off axis with other LD's I've owned. I really didn't take time to position these mics properly for this test. I just thought it would be enough for a simple preamp shootout. We did it in about 15mins.

stratton · 8th September 2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by radiant

I still mic it the other way as well but sometimes I get a better balance by putting the LD at the 12th fret. You don't get near the boxy sound and bottom boom you get when you point the LD at the hole. The SD seems to work well at the hole because its frequency response matches the LD a little closer now. YMMV Of course, I really never pointed the mic directly at the hole. It was always at some weird angle off axis with other LD's I've owned. I really didn't take time to position these mics properly for this test. I just thought it would be enough for a simple preamp shootout. We did it in about 15mins.

Yeah, that makes sense. Maybe wouldn't have to roll off so much low end that way. Nice sounds. I'll try it both ways, standard and "weird".

not_so_new · 8th September 2005

All I know is I am really happy that you did this test with an E250 because I am this close (holds fingers up about 1/4 inch apart) to picking one up. These tracks sound really nice any way you slice it and that caps the deal for me, e250 it is.

Sorry to get off topic.

radiant · 8th September 2005

This is actually the first thing I've recorded with it. So far I'm very pleased. One thing I did notice is the top-end on this mic. Some have said that it's darker than some others but I found it to be pretty sweet up there. One thing to watch for is that these mics can sound a little different from one mic to the next. I heard that one E250 can be a little different than the next E250. I think I got one of the brighter ones and I really like it!

I don't think you'll be disappointed.

Kyle

oceantracks · 8th September 2005

I found one lumpy and bumpy.

2 sounded paper thin.

3 and 4 were best to me, with the Portico seeming to impress with it's transient response more than any of the others. Nice blend of being full, clear, and fast.

I'd have to listen to three and four awhile more to really vote but my gut is 3...the Portico...

NOTE: My original post incorrectly identified the GR as my favorite when in fact it was preamp number two, which I found thin.

TH

radiant · 8th September 2005

Preamp #3 was the Portico 5012, Preamp #2 was the GR

MusicSh*tty · 8th September 2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by oceantracks

I found one lumpy and bumpy.

2 sounded paper thin.

3 and 4 were best to me, with 3 (GR) seeming to impress with it's transient response more than any of the others. Nice blend of being full, clear, and fast.

I vote for the GR...

TH

#3 is not the GR. #3 is the Portico. #2 is the GR.

not_so_new · 9th September 2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by radiant

This is actually the first thing I've recorded with it. So far I'm very pleased. One thing I did notice is the top-end on this mic. Some have said that it's darker than some others but I found it to be pretty sweet up there. One thing to watch for is that these mics can sound a little different from one mic to the next. I heard that one E250 can be a little different than the next E250. I think I got one of the brighter ones and I really like it!

I don't think you'll be disappointed.

Kyle

thumbsup

Thanks man.

Jalabodu · 9th September 2005

The GR isn't so bad after you get to the 00:10. I found myself having to start with it and then go to others for comparison.

I like the Portico! But the 473 has got great mids.

In order for me I like 1,3,2,4. I agree that the 72 has weak imaging.

Are these panned hard left and right? If so, which mic is which? E250 on the left is my guess.

Thanks for doing this.

Dan Kennedy · 9th September 2005

Sounds like the "Impedance" switch was in on the GR NV, and the "Loading" switch out.

It'd be interesting to know...

radiant · 9th September 2005

Impediance switch was off as well as "loading", just checked. Yeah, that's why I would like to record it again just to make sure something wasn't set right. I really expected the GR to sing.

The left channel panned hard left is the E250 and the right is the SM-81

Norman Lindsey · 9th September 2005

it's a pity you didn't have a Buzz in there. i didn't like the Portico ( not surprisingly ) i think you should give the GR another go for sure. .

Lek · 10th September 2005

I got an E250 a few months ago, and love it on vocals and acoustic guitar. I use it pointing at the 12th fret / neck meets the body area as well.

#4 on the picking very deep and sweet. #3 was cloudy and unappealing. #2 was thin but had a certain sweetness. I'm monitoring on bryston 4b through BM15's and also listened on my Senn HD600 headphones

not_so_new · 10th September 2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norman Lindsey

it's a pity you didn't have a Buzz in there. i didn't like the Portico ( not surprisingly ) i think you should give the GR another go for sure. .

So the backlash againt the Portico begins I guess. So why are you not suprised that you don't like the Protico?

Oldone · 10th September 2005

Was the Portico Silk switch on or off? Also, what was the hi pass setting on the Portico? Just curious.

u b k · 10th September 2005

WHOA guys: the great river track is significantly quieter than the others, which is why it sounds so anemic. anytime something sounds weak across all freqs i see red flags.

do a little volume compensation, that track sings as sweetly as the rest. there are actually volume differences among all the tracks, and people's tastes are generally mirroring them... #4 is the loudest.

i recognize the difficulty in getting levels consistent across different takes, in fact it's damn near impossible, so this is in no way a criticism, just a heads-up. thank you kyle for taking the time to do this, it was illuminating and enjoyable.

1,2, and 4 sound really sweet to me, different flavors of premium gelato. i don't like how the portico compresses the transients on the naked track, the strumming lacks articulation, but that might work well in a mix so i'll reserve judgment.

gregoire
del ubik

8th September 2005	#6
Doublehelix Lives for gear Joined: Jan 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,016	I listened through my laptop speakers, and I couldn't make a decent call. Sample #1 probably sounded best, but I wouldn't be able to tell for sure without a proper listening environment. __________________ DH "Nobody goes there anymore; it's too crowded." -Yogi Berra

8th September 2005	#17
not_so_new Lives for gear Joined: Apr 2004 Posts: 5,695	All I know is I am really happy that you did this test with an E250 because I am this close (holds fingers up about 1/4 inch apart) to picking one up. These tracks sound really nice any way you slice it and that caps the deal for me, e250 it is. Sorry to get off topic. __________________ Michael

9th September 2005	#23
Jalabodu Gear addict Joined: Jun 2004 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 372	The GR isn't so bad after you get to the 00:10. I found myself having to start with it and then go to others for comparison. I like the Portico! But the 473 has got great mids. In order for me I like 1,3,2,4. I agree that the 72 has weak imaging. Are these panned hard left and right? If so, which mic is which? E250 on the left is my guess. Thanks for doing this. __________________ You know you're a Gearslut when: When your wife is yelling at you for the new gear you just bought and all you can think about is what mic and pre would be the best for her anoying tone. Markk Pronounced "Hal a ba DU"

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8th September 2005	#1
radiant Gear addict Joined: Aug 2003 Location: Liberty, TX Posts: 437 Thread Starter	Preamp shootout Here's a little shootout I did recently. It's not perfect but I thought yall might be interested in it. Preamp1.wav Preamp2.wav Preamp3.wav Preamp4.wav I tried to get the gains as close as possible. My friend played a Taylor Acoustic and we mic'd it with a Soundelux E250 at the 12th fret and a Shure SM-81 at the hole. There are some pick taps against the body of the guitar you will have to disregard. I didn't spend any time positioning these mics for this shootout because of time but its a descent test. Which one do you like best? I'll post the key to the preamps later! Kyle

8th September 2005	#2
wallace Lives for gear Joined: Mar 2004 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 1,086	I liked 1 the most. It had the most detail and presence. 3 sounded pretty good too. Some of the others seemed smeared and wooly. What pres are they?

8th September 2005	#4
Offender Gear maniac Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 264	I wish you did this test on vocals.

8th September 2005	#7
funka Lives for gear Joined: May 2005 Location: France Posts: 538	For me it is the 4th... Waiting to know which is which.

8th September 2005	#8
Blueser Gear Head Joined: Sep 2005 Posts: 50	I like #1 best, and then #3. That said, they all sounded great, and to me, any one of them would be acceptable! Nice job!

8th September 2005	#9
norman_nomad Lives for gear Joined: Mar 2004 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 2,711	I deff like take 1 the best... but this is tough to compare b/c there are 4 diff takes. 1 and 3 sound good during the strumming sections, but I actually preffered 4 in the picking section... could be the difference between the guitarist moving his body a couple inches one direction or another. I think 2 was the weakest contender.

8th September 2005	#12
stratton Gear nut Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 110	I liked the 473 best over all, too, and I just bought the Portico. I'm going to try this riff with an AKG C451EB and a U67 on my Taylor just for grins. Ken

8th September 2005	#19
oceantracks Lives for gear Joined: May 2004 Location: Boca Raton FL Posts: 3,955	I found one lumpy and bumpy. 2 sounded paper thin. 3 and 4 were best to me, with the Portico seeming to impress with it's transient response more than any of the others. Nice blend of being full, clear, and fast. I'd have to listen to three and four awhile more to really vote but my gut is 3...the Portico... NOTE: My original post incorrectly identified the GR as my favorite when in fact it was preamp number two, which I found thin. TH

9th September 2005	#24
Dan Kennedy Lives for gear Joined: Jul 2002 Location: Inver Grove MN Posts: 505	Sounds like the "Impedance" switch was in on the GR NV, and the "Loading" switch out. It'd be interesting to know...

9th September 2005	#26
Norman Lindsey Gear maniac Joined: Mar 2004 Location: The Bane of Oz Posts: 281	it's a pity you didn't have a Buzz in there. i didn't like the Portico ( not surprisingly ) i think you should give the GR another go for sure. .

10th September 2005	#27
Lek Lives for gear Joined: Mar 2005 Location: NJ Posts: 642	I got an E250 a few months ago, and love it on vocals and acoustic guitar. I use it pointing at the 12th fret / neck meets the body area as well. #4 on the picking very deep and sweet. #3 was cloudy and unappealing. #2 was thin but had a certain sweetness. I'm monitoring on bryston 4b through BM15's and also listened on my Senn HD600 headphones

10th September 2005	#29
Oldone Lives for gear Joined: Dec 2002 Location: Mission Viejo, CA Posts: 1,179	Was the Portico Silk switch on or off? Also, what was the hi pass setting on the Portico? Just curious.

10th September 2005	#30
u b k Gear Guru Joined: Oct 2004 Location: The Land of Sunshine Posts: 11,292	WHOA guys: the great river track is significantly quieter than the others, which is why it sounds so anemic. anytime something sounds weak across all freqs i see red flags. do a little volume compensation, that track sings as sweetly as the rest. there are actually volume differences among all the tracks, and people's tastes are generally mirroring them... #4 is the loudest. i recognize the difficulty in getting levels consistent across different takes, in fact it's damn near impossible, so this is in no way a criticism, just a heads-up. thank you kyle for taking the time to do this, it was illuminating and enjoyable. 1,2, and 4 sound really sweet to me, different flavors of premium gelato. i don't like how the portico compresses the transients on the naked track, the strumming lacks articulation, but that might work well in a mix so i'll reserve judgment. gregoire del ubik