What about Hi-Hats (mixing wise)

[Babe Records]

There hasn't been much talk about it, so I was wondering how you guys deal with mixing Hi-Hats?

Do you use special chains or seperate FX for Hi-Hats tracks like you do with Kicks, Bass or Vocals, or do you just throw them in the drum sub and work on the sub comp/eq?

Also, do you work differentely when dealing with sampled Hi-Hats instead of tracked (real) Hi-Hats?

[Sammy]

most of the times I mute my hihat-track and fight the bleed in the snare... YMMV.

[JonCraig]

i used to mic the hats. i'd always end up with the fader down in the mix. so i stopped mic'ing the hats. i think if i was doing a disco song, or if the hats were playing an important role, and they were getting lost in the kit, i'd mic them again.

--jon

[brendondp]

Originally Posted by JonCraig

i used to mic the hats. i'd always end up with the fader down in the mix. so i stopped mic'ing the hats. i think if i was doing a disco song, or if the hats were playing an important role, and they were getting lost in the kit, i'd mic them again.

--jon

I don't mic hats either. When they're miked it lends itself toward certain mixing abuses such as panning them somewhere over where the guitar cabs are, and (most frequently) bringing them up to a level which affects the rhythmic dynamic between the snare and hi-hat. For instance some drummers tend to emphasize the "3" on the hats in accordance with the snare. Miking the hats means that they're often given some sort of dynamic control in mixing which tends to lose the subtle interaction between snare and hats that occurs when drummers are attempting to create a groove.

If a drummer can control their own dynamics, then the overheads (or room mics) should suffice.

Cheers,

bdp

[Babe Records]

Anybody here mixing some Hi-Hats???


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no?



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ok... so let's just say how do you guys deal with SAMPLED Hi-Hats? Dance, R&B, pop mixers, where are you???

[cfjis]

I know many people here don't like tracking Hi Hats... but, I feel like it is good to do because it is often cool to add a rhythmic delay off of the HH track in the mix.

As far as HH tones in the mix, I try and roll off any low-freq stuff that may sound "clanky" and emphasize the air of the HH. But, how the HH is played and what type of HH it is really dictate what treatment they get.

And, it really is true that the usefulness of a HH track is dictated by the skill of the drummer (not necesarily the case with the other parts of a kit). Some drummers bash the hat so much that you can't keep it out of the other mics on the kit... but with the really good ones, you're glad you have the track.

Cheers,
CJ

[PhilE]

I've started micing them up again- with a good drummer they will normally lead with the hats so they want to be up there- a good player isn't JUST marking time on those things!

[r0ck1r0ck2]

i really enjoy a sound effect mic....use this crap indian mic....gives me a really jankey clank

[Fredrik]

For programed hats I think it´s´cool with stereo deley effects, sometimes it can be nice with some kind of pseudostereo effects too. Watch out for monocompability however.

[TheSweetener]

I only mic hihats to underline the stereoposition in the mix which can be a little diffuse with overheads only.

[Dog_Chao_Chao]

I like to mic the hi-hats but i only use a very small frequency amplitude of that: just the top freqs, i take everything else out. Then i use that track to help placing-locating the Hh. It dosen´t add much timbre, just an extra definition and it helps me a lot to place the hh wherever i want in the mix. With sampled you can do whatever you want with them (strange panning, fx, narrow eqs...etc).
By the way, does anybody uses de s1-imager in the drums mix bus? i tend to use it a lot with figures like 1.4, 1.6, to help with a deeper stereo image. It also helps the hh, altought you have to be careful with the Kick (that´s why sometimes i don´t send the kick to the drum bus, it also pumps to much the compressor)

[Flymax]

I mic the hats...you can always not use them. Roll off the lows and try some compression with quick attack (almost zero) and short release time. They usually end up very low but I miss 'em when I mute 'em. Also, be careful to pan them exactly where they are in the overhead stereo image.

[Norman Lindsey]

i now mic the hi-hats at any occasion i can. i think it makes a huge difference to controling the kit even when used in conjunction with th e overheads. when gating a snare micing the hats is important. nowdays i'm finding i'm rolling off less lows and getting into the top mids of the hats.

[u b k]

i love a good trashcan hihat sound, and that only comes from the right mic sitting real close and personal.

throwing it hard into the compressed drumsub at appropriate moments can make for some serious rhythmic drama, especially when there's an 1176 or distressor on duty.

it's been said, and it bears repeating: hihats separate the good drummers from the great. they are easily on a par with the snare in terms of the dynamic expression and range of timbres available depending on how they're struck. they can either fill space, or they can drive the whole track.


gregoire
del ubik

[DrummerGuy09]

Originally Posted by u b i k

it's been said, and it bears repeating: hihats separate the good drummers from the great. they are easily on a par with the snare in terms of the dynamic expression and range of timbres available depending on how they're struck. they can either fill space, or they can drive the whole track.

Truuu Dattt..... Look at Carter Beauford from DMB. His entire style of playing is revolved around his high-hats. I'm not saying thats all that drives his playing, he just has a great style of playing on his hats along with fu#*en everything else. lol One of best drummers in my opinion. Check out this video.
Carter Beauford

[Jay Kahrs]

Originally Posted by Babe Records

ok... so let's just say how do you guys deal with SAMPLED Hi-Hats? Dance, R&B, pop mixers, where are you???

Usually sampled hats are part of the songs basic rhythm and I'll treat them like any other instrument...I do what I believe is the right thing for the song. Maybe add a delay, EQ, compression, phaser, detuning...maybe nothing at all!

On acoustic kits I try to make them smooth and less annoying. Usually that means turning the track off. If do use them compression isn't usually in the plan, most of the time expansion and some heavy EQ'ing works. I'll drop all the low end and low mids so I have the 'click' from the hats and none of the 'thunk' from the stand. I might search around the mids and upper mids and do some rips in there to make room for other stuff like the snare, vocals, guitars etc.

[ProPower]

I have returned to micing HH. I have been working with a bunch of music where the hats are real important to driving the rhythmn (no bashing, just light to medium rhythmic hits. More Acoustic influenced rock and AOR stuff. I have found that if I get the HH right where I want it with just the overheads then the ride and crashes are just way too much. For the OH I usually use XY pointed about 45 degrees down (low ceiling :-)) aiming one at HH and the other between the Ride and the floor.

-Lee

[insomnio]

Last week I mixed a rock-pop tune paning the hh center in verses and ohs muted, then opening ohs and muting hh in choruses. I'm glad the hh track was at hand.

_________________________________
Insomnio

[Jim vanBergen]

I mix the hihat and have once ditched the snare top to get a better sound combined by Neumann KM841 on HiHat and beta SM57 on snare bottom. Got a great hat/snare combo. Having the hat is crucial, but you want to make sure you are staying in phase with your snare and not adding a flanged mic signal. So I use a HP filter of 400Hz or even higher and LP the top down to cut off around either something around 8k or 4k, depends on how much I want it to match the other OH kit mics or room sound. Hats are critical to good drums, but bad hat playing is awful- just turn off the track in those instances.
Jim

[brendondp]

Originally Posted by DrummerGuy09

Truuu Dattt..... Look at Carter Beauford from DMB. His entire style of playing is revolved around his high-hats. I'm not saying thats all that drives his playing, he just has a great style of playing on his hats along with fu#*en everything else. lol One of best drummers in my opinion. Check out this video.
Carter Beauford

Yeah, really subtle, understated stuff. In no way over-playing, over-emphasizing, or drowning out the dynamics and "melody" of the song. It sure is lucky every thing is close-miked otherwise all you'd hear from six feet away would be

FWOOSHsplashsplash *tap* CRASHPHISSSSHsszzzzszzzzszzzz *tap* BOOOSHHHHHszz *tap* splashsplashSSSHHHCRASHCRASHPINGPINGPAAAHHHHSSSSS

Miking the hi-hat in Carter's case is directly related to the number of competing frequencies present in a kit with 15 other cymbals - used with as much regularity as Carter uses them.

I'm personally for "whatever works" when it comes to miking, but not when it means miking everything in order to compensate for over-zealous playing. But then, I hate the Dave Matthews band in a manner akin to Steely Dan. So take my opinion for what it's worth... nothing. I mean, my current band situation requires that I play kick, snare, hats - and that's it.

Cheers,

bdp

[Bones]

Originally Posted by brendondp

... otherwise all you'd hear from six feet away would be

FWOOSHsplashsplash *tap* CRASHPHISSSSHsszzzzszzzzszzzz *tap* BOOOSHHHHHszz *tap* splashsplashSSSHHHCRASHCRASHPINGPINGPAAAHHHHSSSSS

Sorry ... I know this is a serious thread, but I just spat a whole mouthful of Mocca-Java over my keyboard ....... Gaaaaadstruuuuth, I am still clutching my ribcage!!

[invisibl]

I read a trick years ago using the mic'd hat on a kit OUT OF PHASE to help diminish bleed on the other tracks. I have tried it a couple of times to varying success.

The bestest results came in on heavy haneded bastard drummers

[DHD]

Originally Posted by Babe Records

There hasn't been much talk about it, so I was wondering how you guys deal with mixing Hi-Hats?

Do you use special chains or seperate FX for Hi-Hats tracks like you do with Kicks, Bass or Vocals, or do you just throw them in the drum sub and work on the sub comp/eq?

Also, do you work differentely when dealing with sampled Hi-Hats instead of tracked (real) Hi-Hats?

Hi Babe Records,

with mixing hats it's up to you to listen to see if the track adds anything appropriate to your mix, whereas it's like Jay Kahrs says... that the programmed hats are usually an essential part of the groove.

If you are receiving hi hat tracks that are clunky and are basically the result of a bad choice of mic then I's say ditch it. If you can't make it add what you want as said by many of the guy on here do, by filtering out the lows from the track then do it!

Basically you should see if the hat track belongs with the overhead sound and check to see if it detracts from the snare (in the case of live playing). It's up to you! I personally like forward hats if the track can stand it. But it really depends on the sound a band produces together and the frequencies they take up.

The thing is that everyone who has replied to ya is giving you the right answers! thumbsup

Cheers,
DHD