Cocteau Twins/Robin Guthrie guitar sound

[Tubthumper]

Great choice. Can I ask what you paid?

edit: sorry, found it.

[Space Station]

The thing is Robin used nearly every effect and reverb processor known. However there is a lot of fender XII on tracks and Bass VI. He also used the Boss Dimension C pedal and the MXR flanger. Play an XII through one of those pedals with plenty of reverb/delay...it's instant Cocteau.

[Digitar]

Originally Posted by Ethereralgreta

I'm gonna have alot of fun with this baby.

Yes, some serious fun.

[Digitar]

Originally Posted by Ethereralgreta

1) Once you do so, those who know will say "hey, sounds like Cocteau Twins, what a copy cat!

2. You immediately get typecast as a copycat and no one will take anything else you do, seriously.

3. You get to walk around being viewed as a stuck in the 80's 'non innovator'

The old line "giving a man a Les Paul will not make him Les Paul", comes to mind anytime I hear something like this. No matter how hard any of us would try to emulate someones style, it's always an exercise in futilty. But ALL musicians are influenced by something or somebody. Just because everybody has a chorus, delay or reverb doesn't mean they are going to sound like RG. It's all about how you use your own musical journey to move forward.

Eric Clapton started out by taking the licks from all of his blues heroes and piecing them together in his own way. He said in an interview that He would play a BB king lick moving on to a robert johnson lick to a albert king lick and the only thing that was him were the transitions between the licks. When you find someone that inspires you, it makes you look at your own playing in a new and insightful way.

If getting hung up on a style and using it makes you an imitator and not respected, that is definitely not what I've found in this business. You will have innovators that come along like Bill Monroe(Bluegrass), Chuck Berry(Rock'N'Roll), Bob Marley(Reggae), Pink Floyd(Progressive), Black Sabbath(Heavy Metal), Sex Pistols(Punk), Cocteau Twins(Shoegazer/Dream Pop) among many others. The point is when you are a true innovator you start a movement among musicians who all react to the excitement of this new way of thinking. And they all start using the tools that they already have. If being an imitator was truly not accepted then rock and roll would of died because Chuck Berry would've owned it all.

The sounds that RG and HB used on their new records are the exact same sounds that they used on their old records only with new processors and different song approaches. The Record That they made together with the Cocteaus in the 80s, "the moon and the melodies" was very much in the same arena as the new ones that you're asking about the sounds of.

Robin has commented about a reviewer complaining that he still sounded like the Cocteaus. And his response was that's how I play. Robin has talked about where he took his ideas from when he got started, does that make him an imitator? If you wanted to take it to the logical conclusion then the Cocteaus sound like U2 because they both use the same processors, and then Coldplay sounds like both of them. It's pointless.

The idea is to draw inspiration from every arena that inspires you because even the innovators had their heroes too. Now stop worrying about who you're going to sound like and go have fun with that H3000. And that's the point

[Digitar]

Originally Posted by Ethereralgreta

saw a guitarist use one of these last night and he started layering loops with it...simply gorgeous sounding through chorus and synth pads.
One is for sale on eBay right now. I might snatch it up and run my synths through it.
Electrix Repeater loop transport - eBay (item 180344005988 end time Apr-06-09 19:58:30 PDT)

In the session picture that you posted right by the headstock of the guitar, you'll see one of those. I've been thinking of picking up one of those too, but so far my JamMan's doing a good job. The difference is, I think the Repeater is stereo.

[Animus]

Originally Posted by Ethereralgreta

Well, just went over and placed half down on my H3000 D/SX and ran through some of the presets with the guy. I'd have to say, it beats the snot out of 'plugs' in a New York minute. I saw like 900 presets in this thing. It would take forever to get through them all.
Still, I love some of resonance and atmospheric tonalities coming out of the thing. 163-Cystal Echo 2 reverse shift is sweet in a shimmering way, while some of the others like 278-Flutterous Room stereo Shift...just had a kind of ominous microtuning ambience that had melancholy written all over it. 308-Canyon Reverb Factory is absolutely huge and beautiful sounding with pads, while 321 Hellverb was very cool, eerie in the way you could feedback the delays then pitch shift them...it was intense!. I can see why Robin Guthrie would want to use this on his guitar sound. you could do away with your pedal effects and just go to your preset with a midi program change foot switch..easy really. You'd do your heavy editing to get your sound right, back home, before the gig. Then, you could name your preset to the title of the song you would play, and it'd be easy as Shoe-Fly Pie on stage


Eventide definitely has a color all its own that is NOT Lexicon by any stretch of the imagination. The thing is deep, but I found that it was very easy to use. I am old school, anyway so where the 'hard to program' bit came in from someone, is beyond me. I love the way you can preassign any specific parameters to the front panel quick edit pushbuttons and then tweak to your hearts desire. This is one $900 dollar box I think I will keep for a very very long time. I also got the manual with the unit, so if anyone needs a pdf copy of it, I'll scan it and send it along. Just PM me.
On the down note its XLR I/O but I can live with that.
I'm gonna have alot of fun with this baby. Parameters are even midi syncable.

+1 I just got a DSP4000 I am in proverbial heaven. I want to get the H800FW eventually but thats the gearslut in me.

[Digitar]

Originally Posted by Ethereralgreta

Digitar, I noticed my 500 and 600 presets are missing on this unit.
Is it supposed to be that way? The manual shows them to be missing on the D S/X model, too. So, my question here is:
1) Which model had more presets?
2) Which model was considered the higher end model, D/SX or D S/E?
3) Is there a way I can get those missing presets with a ROM upgrade?
4) Who has the ROM upgrades?

Yeah, that's normal on the D S/X
1) The D/SE. That's why I said I wished yours had the band delays.
2) The D/SE
3) Yes
4) The Eventide store has the EPROMS for $695.00. But I was looking on ebay the other day and someone in England had them for $125.00 I think.
I Hope This Helps.

By the way, I love how you keep connecting up with RG.

The next time you talk to him, ask him if he ever checks out our little forum.

[holatee]

Originally Posted by Tubthumper

PaSart,

Well done. Can I ask where you sourced this info?

YouTube - Cocteau Twins - Summerhead (Later) Try to watch this video, is from Later's show in UK. In the camera shot from above, you can see some kind of BOSS fx... well is not so clearly but it can confirm the theory, e... Greetings!

[Animus]

Originally Posted by holatee

YouTube - Cocteau Twins - Summerhead (Later) Try to watch this video, is from Later's show in UK. In the camera shot from above, you can see some kind of BOSS fx... well is not so clearly but it can confirm the theory, e... Greetings!

Looked like a Lexicon in the rack too.

[Animus]

fyi. Just saw Robin last night in DC. He was using a Eventide Eclipse in a stereo configuration with two Roland JC120's. Nothing else. Awesome sound.

[Tubthumper]

Animus, thanks for posting.

Robert Smith's early/mid period Cure material features the JC120 I believe. It's a sound I like a lot.

I assume Robin runs the Eclipse at a lower output in order to feed the JCs.

[baikonour]

Originally Posted by Tubthumper

Animus, thanks for posting.

Robert Smith's early/mid period Cure material features the JC120 I believe. It's a sound I like a lot.

I assume Robin runs the Eclipse at a lower output in order to feed the JCs.

R.Smith used Roland JC177 (big brother of the JC120) at the time of 17 Seconds and Faith, at least on stage. I saw pictures of him in the studio with a JC as well.
Plug a Fender Jazzmaster straight into one, add a bit of the inbuilt chorus and here you go...

[baikonour]

Originally Posted by Space Station

The thing is Robin used nearly every effect and reverb processor known. However there is a lot of fender XII on tracks and Bass VI. He also used the Boss Dimension C pedal and the MXR flanger. Play an XII through one of those pedals with plenty of reverb/delay...it's instant Cocteau.

Yep, Man it went through a lot of different gear over the years but his choice of guitars where quite consistent: Fender Bass VI (early model with the shielded strat type PU, Jazzmasters (he has a few 60's ones, but noticeably a '59 sunburst with anodised pickguard, a Fender XII... On later CT records he also used an early green PRS and some custom made guitars (with a sustainer PU)
On Garlands he used a 2 Watkins Copycats in series as well as other pedals, I think the guitar was a Hondo or something like that.
Lots of Boss pedals including a VB-2 and a "broken" BF-2 (actually I have modified a Boss flanger (playing with the internal feedback setting changed an you can get this howling feedback sound quite easily)
There's a lot of info about some of his specific sound on his website.
Equipment Notes | Robin Guthrie Official Website