Cocteau Twins/Robin Guthrie guitar sound

[Tubthumper]

I've been unable to track down any info re: recording and mixing of the Cocteau's records, other than what's been posted here and over at the other forum. This focuses on guitar processing in the main.

VERY keen to hear from anyone "in the know".

It seems that much of what we hear on a Cocteau's record has been recorded direct, DId guitar, bass, and drum machines, and I'm sure that a large part of their lush sound can be attributed to this. Not to mention crafty modulated delay processing.

But yes, it seems reasonable to assume that the sonics of these tracks have been enhanced at mixdown via the use of a "money" console and processors.

\speculation.

[Digitar]

Originally Posted by Ethereralgreta

I've heard here on Gearslutz a million opinions on how reverb should and should not be used. RG has used reverb and effects in ways that most on this forum would scoff at- and it sounds absolutely beautiful

According to Robin himself, he hates reverb on guitar. So what you're loving about his sound was created with something else. Keep researching. I love his sound too.

[Tubthumper]

Presumably their association with Harold Budd and, indirectly, Danny Lanois has led to a deeper pool of knowledge re: treatments.

Wouldn't it be funny if DL had mixed them??

\\speculation

[Digitar]

From what I understand Robin has produced and mixed all of their records except " Peppermint Pig".

[Silver Sonya]

It's all about creative use of delays and... umm... really good ideas.

- c

[Tubthumper]

Talented bugger. Shame about the re-masters then.

[Digitar]

Originally Posted by Tubthumper

Talented bugger. Shame about the re-masters then.

Yeah, I agree about the re-masters. I don't think his heart was into at all. They didn't pay him anything for doing them.

[Silver Sonya]

It really raises the question of whether there could ever be a re-re-master series.

It happened to Elvis Costello and David Bowie after their Rykodisc catalogue expired.

I want to hear the Cocteau Twins mastered properly.

I nominate Tony Cousins, who is a personal hero of mine. His remasterings of Gabriel, David Sylvian, XTC, have been exquisite and eternal.

- c

[Silver Sonya]

Of course I don't really get a vote...

- c

[desotoslo]

I just want to chime in and declare my love for the Cocteau Twins. Good to see other Sluts enjoying them as well. Liz Fraser FTW

[Ethereralgreta]

"According to Robin himself, he hates reverb on guitar. So what you're loving about his sound was created with something else. Keep researching. I love his sound too."

I recall the printed interview in which you quoted where he did make that statement. I believe it was TapeOp or some odd recording rag. I think you have to take in consideration, the Gutherie quote in the time of context it was written, which was indeed around the time of when four Calander Cafe and HOLV were written and indeed, you don't hear much reverb at all on those tracks. But, my friend, listen to his recent stuff, and tell me he doesn't like the use of deep reverbs, and I will challenge anyone on that, and I don't have to research it, I already heard it from the horses mouth. what I will do, is quote first hand knowledge from recording engineers at www.sfsoundworks.com, here locally, that worked with RF and Budd, and mentioned to me when I was there talking mastering ( last year) , how much those two soaked that Lexicon LEXICON 960L for everything it was worth , so this ain't coming from me, I am just passing the hearsay. The guys really didn't like the fact they were using so much as it was hard to get eq transients correct without muddling the entire mix in awash, and doing so on 'everything' made it very hard mix, which is what I recall the guy telling me, wish I could remeber his name. Nice guy, anyway.
Now, if Budd and RG want to deny this and say that everything on 'Before the Day Breaks' and 'After the Night Falls', (which were both engineered by Tony Espinoza and some others-the guys that I talked to), were 'reverb-free', they can, it is their mix, let em say what they want, but I know differently and I doubt they will say that, if you ask them, now, because what was said 10 years ago about RG's methods, don't apply today unless that quote was recent and if so, why would he lie about something like that? why would the engineers lie? I don't think anyone is lying, I think we are comparing the RG of yesterday with the mixes of today, which are not syncronous. I am a fickly musician myself and I change my modus as much as the next guy. 10 years ago, I used Oberheim DX drum machines and hated the sound or real drums. Today, I love the sound of real drums and hate that old EMU SP1200 sound you hear all over the CT EP Ghost has No Name. I just hated that EMU Drumulator sound. Same machine was used all over Depeche Mode's album Construction Time Again, too. I hate that sound now, but back then, I liked it. Now, I don't. My point being, You can't base mixes I would do today off of what I said about my likes and dislikes, 10 years ago.
I am just a guy that likes good music and makes his own and does use alot of reverb in my own mixes (i especially like my new Lexi PCM 96 very sweet) and I can tell you, I have grand hall presets running through it that sound amazingly like something Budd and and RG would do, IMHO.

Cheers
W|S Collective | MySpace.com

[Ethereralgreta]

according to someone that supposedly talked to the guy personally, here on this thread
Cocteau twins- heaven or lasvegas

so, looks like the "I hate to use reverb on the guitar" quote doesn't carry much weight when you are running a Lexicon PCM 70 on factory presets 'hall' and 'plate".
Makes one wonder if the interviewer was a dyslexic suffering flexi-pop jock and got his quotes misconstrued. wouldn't be the first time the press misquoted someone and it was taken as fact forevermore.

[Digitar]

Originally Posted by Ethereralgreta

"According to Robin himself, he hates reverb on guitar. So what you're loving about his sound was created with something else. Keep researching. I love his sound too."

I recall the printed interview in which you quoted where he did make that statement. I believe it was TapeOp or some odd recording rag. I think you have to take in consideration, the Gutherie quote in the time of context it was written, which was indeed around the time of when four Calander Cafe and HOLV were written and indeed, you don't hear much reverb at all on those tracks. But, my friend, listen to his recent stuff, and tell me he doesn't like the use of deep reverbs, and I will challenge anyone on that, and I don't have to research it, I already heard it from the horses mouth. what I will do, is quote first hand knowledge from recording engineers at www.sfsoundworks.com, here locally, that worked with RF and Budd, and mentioned to me when I was there talking mastering ( last year) , how much those two soaked that Lexicon LEXICON 960L for everything it was worth , so this ain't coming from me, I am just passing the hearsay. The guys really didn't like the fact they were using so much as it was hard to get eq transients correct without muddling the entire mix in awash, and doing so on 'everything' made it very hard mix, which is what I recall the guy telling me, wish I could remeber his name. Nice guy, anyway.
Now, if Budd and RG want to deny this and say that everything on 'Before the Day Breaks' and 'After the Night Falls', (which were both engineered by Tony Espinoza and some others-the guys that I talked to), were 'reverb-free', they can, it is their mix, let em say what they want, but I know differently and I doubt they will say that, if you ask them, now, because what was said 10 years ago about RG's methods, don't apply today unless that quote was recent and if so, why would he lie about something like that? why would the engineers lie? I don't think anyone is lying, I think we are comparing the RG of yesterday with the mixes of today, which are not syncronous. I am a fickly musician myself and I change my modus as much as the next guy. 10 years ago, I used Oberheim DX drum machines and hated the sound or real drums. Today, I love the sound of real drums and hate that old EMU SP1200 sound you hear all over the CT EP Ghost has No Name. I just hated that EMU Drumulator sound. Same machine was used all over Depeche Mode's album Construction Time Again, too. I hate that sound now, but back then, I liked it. Now, I don't. My point being, You can't base mixes I would do today off of what I said about my likes and dislikes, 10 years ago.

Cheers
W|S Collective | MySpace.com

Ethereralgreta,

I agree as musicians the quest for our own personal sound is a never ending journey. The article I was quoting from was Guitar Player magazine, around the time they released Milk and Kisses. He's also said that he doesn't use any of the equipment that he used with the Cocteau's because that sound is from those days. I know that he is an endless experimenter and his equipment changes all the time. The funny thing is it always sounds like him no matter what equipment is being used.

And I would assume that all of his newer Ambient records have Lexicon, Eventide, and all of the usual suspects on them. But as you probably know. Robin is pretty tight lipped about how he goes about recording. That's why everyone is so interested to hear any information about the sessions, signal chains, equipment, etc.

Evidently you've talked to one the engineers, Tom or Ken? who worked on the 2 recordings that Robin and Harold did last in April '06. He had said on his web log that he was down loading the session files to finish working on them at home, and on the Sept. '06 entries talked about mixing the record at home. Any info you could share about the session would definitely be appreciated.

[Ethereralgreta]

I wish I could remember which guy it was. I spoke with several of them when meandering around the place when I showed up and filtered through the rooms. They were all working and just made mention in passing. I'd be remiss to say it was one or the other because I am horrible with names, but can always remember a face. I was there for about a 45 mins, taking a tour and asking questions and somehow, RG and HB came up because I talked about the highly expensive Lexicon 960L unit and what a great reverb it was. That was when one of them said "yeah, Budd and Guthrie thought so too" and the conversation kind of just went from there, how RG and HB had tracked there not too long back.
Kind of like, I mention reverb, they mentioned RB and HB like the two artists were synonymous with the very word. Those two left an indelible impression on the engineers because they had never worked with any artists before that, incorporating so much of it into their over-all sound strategy. I know they used the SSL board in the THE ULTIMATE ROOM. In the early stages there was a lot of time spent initially on just
general effects experimentation. In tracking, the 960L was used for the monitoring stages alot. Still, alot of experimentation went down with just about all the effects in pre and post production as long as RG and Budd were happy with what were coming out of their cans. The consensus was the engineers could clean up alot of the monitor 'muddle' in post, as long as the end mix didn't stray too far from the intent those two had. As time went on, they could could bounce the different effected mixes around to see what fit and what didn't . The point was that the artists like to monitor their stuff with the effects/reverb in place, but that it was not actually used when laying down the core audio, so that the sound in the cans while tracking wasn't what was actually going to be 'set in stone' in the end and that the mix could be altered accordingly after the fact, if need be, in Protools. I guess it wasn't the easiest task in trying to keep the intent of the artists congruent with what the engineers thought should be done to get everything 'clean', so there was a lot of back and forth comparisons with everyone having a say to get the finals where they should be. At times there were various people in various places listening to things on the various monitoring systems. Sometimes the tracks were mixed in the studio, sometimes by the engineers at home... and the fact remained that things just sounded different, to different people, depending on what they were listening to it on and where they were at. So, the studio guys just tried to assume it would be heard on (home stereos, mp3 players, etc ) and hoped that they could get the mix right, in the end, but not stray too far off what Budd and Guthrie had heard and wanted, while tracking through the cans in the studio. For monitoring, at least from what I remember they mentioned in that studio, they used the Yamaha NS10's, because the concept was if the engineers could mix on those, quietly, chances are, it'd sound good on joe consumers home stereo. When at home and mixing, I have no idea what they used. Built in speakers on an Imac, (joke, of course).

I guess some of the post prod difficulties were in trying to maintain good sonic clarity between the keys, guitars, pads etc with all the effects running all over the place, but somehow still get the overall mix to 'gel' properly and maintiain aritist intent. So some compression (harware, plug ins, I couldn't tell you) came into play at the mixdown stage along with some mastering EQ's. In keeping everything deeply effected without being too transiently over the top of one another or too mushed together, the M.O was to keep on tweaking as many places as possible to get it right.

Let me try to recede back into the cranial mass and try to remember anything else that was said in the very short time I was in that place. Oh, I remember some of the special ambient types of sounds were from Spectrasonics Atomosphere, that they mic'd a Yamaha grand piano for Budd and that some of the pad sounds were like, Roland JP 8000, I think. If I can remember anything more, I will let you know.

Have you had the chance to try and talk to the guys that worked there, some more yourself? I really don't know where they all went after closing, which studios in the area they are now working at is a mystery to me but I know Espinoza is somewhere here on this site, so you might try picking his brain, too.

I hear what you say about RG and HB being tight lipped, but I am sure it is not because they wouldn't tell ya, they probably just get so many interested people asking them questions like that, they just don't have time to respond to them all and still find time to do the shopping, take the kids to school and get music making in. I don't think their NOT responding is out of any attempt to keep some great trade secret from getting out, as anyone that tries to intentionally sound like them is going to be pretty obvious.

It was conveyed that they were just really stellar, nice guys, mature and easy to work with and very good people all around. So in that I don't think their failure to respond to other musician's questions are out of rudeness or intrinsic snobbery, but more out of the lack of time to do so, even though, they'd really like to.
Cheers!

[Digitar]

Ethereralgreta,

That's the first info I've heard about any Robin Guthrie session. Thanks for the inside scoop.

Rock On!

[Ethereralgreta]

I just remembered one more tidbit. One guy told me that RG was 'opened minded but not', which was weird and I replied 'I don't get it' and he replied " along with the deep halls, that guy knew exactly where he wanted to go with his guitar sound, from moment one, which was different than where most any other guitarist would ever want to go" I thought 'huh, whatever', and then the subject changed to something else. Now, upon thinking back on that comment in passing, and this is pure speculation on my part, I have to assume that most of this "knew exactly where he wanted to go" sound involved his way of obtaining the chorusing, delay/reverb/tremolo chain and whatnot of what is heard all over those two albums. Now after listening to alot of RG's other older stuff, I can see now, what the guy was referring to. At the time that comment was made, I had never heard of these guys so I really had no point of reference to what 'sound' they were referencing. But, now, I know EXACTLY what he was talking about and it just hit me like between the eyes in the 'lightbulb finally comes on!' dept.
What I failed to find out for the guitar afficianados among you, is whether he brought in his own 'stomp box' setup then plugged into an amp which was mic'd into the SSL or whether that 'signature sound' was actually accomplished using the studio's efx units. I just can't make that assumption because I didn't ask, sorry 'cause I really wasn't inquiring so much about them but the studio itself and because of the efx sound that I love to incorporate so much in my own synth stuff, their names kept coming up. Listening back on the intro of a few tracks, I swear that is a factory preset on my own, roland synths and it just so happens, they had one in their own studio (rack version, I think)
That is why I felt compelled to jump into a conversation that normally I would never even consider commenting on. I just for some reason happened to be at a place where someone of interest on this forum was recording and who is now being mentioned.
A couple of days after being a SFSW, I asked my 16 YO daughter if she had heard of RG and HB and being the music nut she is, said "OMG! Dad, you don't know who that is?" I said 'wha? No?" Then she says "What, are you living in a cave? and I said, "uh, I guess?" and she said "that is the guy from Cocteau Twins! They are massive!" and I said "well I guess I'm not cool, then, or just old, who the hell are they?" and then, like a teenage girl would, she says "Was Elizabeth Frazier there? did you meet them?" and I said "no, they just talked about tehm, who the hell are these people? and then she runs to her room, grabs a CD and played for me, 'Cherry-Coloured Funk' and after that, I was completely and utterly hooked. When I found out when it was written and recorded, like what 15 years ago, I was totally blown away. The guy is so unconventional, 'un-trained' in the classical sense, not a technical guitarist by other guitarists standards but that sound.... he can't help but be in a league of his own... so, I guess, what, since 2006, I've been a big fan, too.
i wish I could turn back time and juice those guys at SFSW for everything they were worth, but hindsight is always, 20/20
Take care and good luck with your music, too.

[Digitar]

Thanks again Ethereralgreta,

I've seen the pictures from the session and Robin was using a Line6 Pod/live (look out for the flames) and a Electrix Repeater (looper). I'm would think he probably had some other pedals too, but not sure. He has said that 97% of what he does is direct so this all makes sense. Boy, I hope we can track down Ken or Tom to find out more. They might be on this forum already, who knows?

I really appreciate you sharing your info as alot of people don't share so unselfishly. Thank you

[Ethereralgreta]

to try to get some more infor on his modus.
Here is kind of how it went down

Me: Do you like playing live or studio?
robinguthrie to wscollective : I enjoy most things I do but when I'm performing I wish I were in the studio and vice versa. I could use a holiday though. I'd enjoy that

Me: What is the kit of Harold Budd?
robinguthrie : harold? he has no 'set up'.... just uses what's at hand

wscollective to robinguthrie : Of all places to live, why France? Service is better in California and the chicks dig yer accent,
robinguthrie : I live in France because I don't care for england too much... And, anyway, my house is here
robinguthrie : coffee in england? euwww, there's another reason I live in France

Somoneelse on the forum: Did you use plug-ins on your older CT material?
robinguthrie : didn't have no plug-ins in 1985, you know

wscollective to robinguthrie : my last question, alors je suis finis avec ici.. harrassing. I heard you used a Lexicon 960L and ran everything through at SFsoundworks when tracking for the BTDB and ATNF sessions with Budd? Is that true?

robinguthrie to wscollective : I didn't treat anything at soundworks, I only tracked there.. dry .. All processing chez moi .... oh, and it's eventide, not lex ...

HEINMILLER to robinguthrie : robin do you consider your music sexy, like so many of us do?
robinguthrie : Oh my
HEINMILLER to robinguthrie : YAY ITS THAT FAMOUS ARPEGGIATOR EFFECT
HEINMILLER to robinguthrie : what synth is that from robin?
robinguthrie : not a synth
HEINMILLER to robinguthrie : geetar?
robinguthrie : it's a delay unit


Oh, one last thing he said he does a lot of harmonic stuff using multitap delay.
lost that bit in the copy/paste, somehow.
Forgot to ask if he is using the eventide TDM protools plugs or their hardware units.


So, there you are, straight from Robin Guthrie, cheers to all.

[Digitar]

Originally Posted by Ethereralgreta

to try to get some more infor on his modus.
Here is kind of how it went down

Me: Do you like playing live or studio?
robinguthrie to wscollective : I enjoy most things I do but when I'm performing I wish I were in the studio and vice versa. I could use a holiday though. I'd enjoy that

Me: What is the kit of Harold Budd?
robinguthrie : harold? he has no 'set up'.... just uses what's at hand

wscollective to robinguthrie : Of all places to live, why France? Service is better in California and the chicks dig yer accent,
robinguthrie : I live in France because I don't care for england too much... And, anyway, my house is here
robinguthrie : coffee in england? euwww, there's another reason I live in France

Somoneelse on the forum: Did you use plug-ins on your older CT material?
robinguthrie : didn't have no plug-ins in 1985, you know

wscollective to robinguthrie : my last question, alors je suis finis avec ici.. harrassing. I heard you used a Lexicon 960L and ran everything through at SFsoundworks when tracking for the BTDB and ATNF sessions with Budd? Is that true?

robinguthrie to wscollective : I didn't treat anything at soundworks, I only tracked there.. dry .. All processing chez moi .... oh, and it's eventide, not lex ...

HEINMILLER to robinguthrie : robin do you consider your music sexy, like so many of us do?
robinguthrie : Oh my
HEINMILLER to robinguthrie : YAY ITS THAT FAMOUS ARPEGGIATOR EFFECT
HEINMILLER to robinguthrie : what synth is that from robin?
robinguthrie : not a synth
HEINMILLER to robinguthrie : geetar?
robinguthrie : it's a delay unit


Oh, one last thing he said he does a lot of harmonic stuff using multitap delay.
lost that bit in the copy/paste, somehow.
Forgot to ask if he is using the eventide TDM protools plugs or their hardware units.


So, there you are, straight from Robin Guthrie, cheers to all.

Wow, Ethereralgreta,

Talk about getting it from the horses mouth. That was simply fantastic. I'm glad you decided to join our little forum here. I love that you didn't just take anything at face value. You went right to the source. Bravo!!!!!!

As far as him using Eventide the only thing that I've seen that he used was an H3000. And there are definitely modulation delays all over his recordings, because I use them all the time on my music and I hear alot of similar effects going on with his guitar that I use. Especially because I use an Eventide h3000 too.

It's funny that he didn't use the Lexicon 960lL that the studio had. I know he likes to use the pitchshifting in the Lexicon for widening his signal. I guess when you have your own boutique gear at home like he does, why worry about it. I guess what he said in his weblog was true. That he mixed the record at home.

Once again big Props for going the extra mile.
Rock on!

[pulse_divider]

You can pretty much nail his sound exactly with any older (i.e. murky) digital delay and analog chorus. If I patch my boss DE-200 through my boss CE-300 and play some sort of minor jazz chord it's pretty much the same.
I imagine that RG would sound like RG through whatever gear, though, it doesn't sound like it relies heavily on a specific piece that has a crazy unique setting.

[Ethereralgreta]

Interesting how gear terminology gets tossed about when heard through the gravevine via several 'sources' associated in and around the process of making of a record.
Uncanny how the guys talked about the lex being used so much, but then again, I can see how RG would monitor using something of that sort to get a feel for how the final product might sound, and hence 'the guy knew exactly what he wanted from the get go' comment by the SFSW engineer when I was milling through the place. I can also see how and whey the tracking would run dry to PT, but the monitoring through the lex so all could get a feel for how it would all roughly sound, on mixdown when RG got home. Makes alot of sense because I too, would want and idea of how my sound would be, as long as my preconceived ideas were in place at the studio, then return to 'my comfort zone' to have final and complete control over my endmix output, too. With today's technology, bout the only thing we can't do at home anymore is record a Yamaha Grand with Nuemans and track through an SSL or Neve console, plus, SFSW was a decently priced halfway point for RG & HB as I think that was around the time they were going up to the Seattle film festival to do some work, so perhaps it made travel sense, being that Budd lives in LA somewhere. Pure conjecture on my part, but a thought.
Now, the Eventiede H3000. How do you like that unit?
I have the Lex PCM96, which is sweet when used as a plug in and the reason I went Lex over Eventide hardware. I love hardware that can be used as a plug, too. Best of both worlds.
Now, I have heard great things about the Eventide Anthology II plugs but they are TDM only, and I am not running a PT HD system but an SSL Alphalink 24 I/O MADI setup with UAD-2, Duende and Cubase PC. To even get those Eventide plugs in my system, I'd have to switch DAW to PT 8, get an HD-1 accell card and the MADI to HD converter box. That's 10 grand that I don't have right now, so the Lex has to do, but what I can say is if RG is using Eventide on his guitars, what sweet verbs, chorus and delays, coming out of that Eventide.

[Ethereralgreta]

Auralgasms Radio - Launch Page

Auralgasms Home Page

They had RG in the chat last night, so I jumped in to ask some questions.
cheers

[Digitar]

Yeah, it's hard to tell what's being used sometimes even when you're standing right next to somebody in a session. A lot of guys I've worked with share and answer any question you have and some won't tell you anything. Trade secrets you know.

It's definitely going to narrow the playing field when it comes to the amount of great studios around. But there will always be a need for great rooms to record in. It's just a shame that in a time where we need these experienced guys with all their wisdom. Nobody can afford to go in these rooms or hire these engineers now. The budgets on album projects now is less than we used to get for demo sessions. Hopefully it will eventually get sorted out. One can only hope.

As far as the Eventide H3000, I love mine. I've had it awhile and it just has a sound that works. It's funny that the part that I like about it least is it's harmonizing functions. I'd also lke to get an h8000 as soon as my budget permits. That box can do some very sophisticated processing that I can't wait to experiment with.

I split my cash about half for plug-ins and half for hardware and I always love the hardware more but love the recall feature of plug-ins and the fact that I can make as many as I need.

I hear you about having to shell out all the cash to do something out of your systems range but that's what keeps these companies in business I guess. Boy, this has been a great thread. Let's keep it going!

[Tubthumper]

That's great info. Thanks for that.

A little piece of trivia: Robin Guthrie produced a track on Ian McCulloch's second solo record. Here's a link to a You Tube "video" of the song.

Liz Fraser does the BGVs, and Robin may be providing some guitar...... maybe not.

[ToddF]

I know the Cocteau Twins get talked about a lot but I like the Lush albums even more. Spooky and Gala are great. I like that they rock a little more than The Cocteau Twins. Same Guthrie production sound.

Peace Todd

[Ethereralgreta]

Yeah, RG knows how to 'milk and honey' his Eventide effects, most assuredly. I am sure he has all the hardware to play with that he needs, but with computer power and plugs today being what they are, I think it safe to say that in many way, the only thing we are really having to forfeit over in 'settling' for the plug version is 'hands-on' control of parameters in real time and then of course, the all and ever growing latency problems when you are throwing way too much shite at your CPU and meltdown glitch goes into effect until your puter crashes.
Still, for we guys in debt to the ying yang in gearslutisms, I did find some free stuff out there to help you 'fake the funk' to get that RG reverb sound.
One here is a VST version of some Eventide 2016's
VST Plugins
I also heard this little convolution verb is very sweet, for free
SIR: SIR1

I know from my view, I can never get enough varied verbs.
One of the verbs I really like to use on my UAD-2 (which I am really enjoying and think the company is great..get right back to your emails immediately) is this one here. the Plate 140
Universal Audio | Plate 140
tall about lonnnnnggggg halls with tails that never end...

[desotoslo]

Originally Posted by ToddF

I know the Cocteau Twins get talked about a lot

in my world at least, the cocteau twins really don't get talked about very much at all...

most people who are around my age (28) don't know who they are.

which is a shame. but, they're not for everyone. not macho enough for some guys. e.

beautiful music, tho.

[Digitar]

Originally Posted by desotoslo

in my world at least, the cocteau twins really don't get talked about very much at all...

most people who are around my age (28) don't know who they are.

which is a shame. but, they're not for everyone. not macho enough for some guys. e.

beautiful music, tho.

I agree Desotoslo. The Cocteau's are a group that in the old days would've been called a "cult" band. You know the only people that know about them are the ones that are into them. I've mentioned them to quite a few people over the years and nobody had ever heard of them. I remember being into early Genesis and it was like that.

Your " macho enough " comment definitely rings true. Some guys will only get Big Dogs for the same reason. I've heard people say they are like " heavy metal enya", which is kind of true. Elizabeth fraser has used alot of Enya/Abba type vocal production techniques. I wish they would at least finish the last record that was started but never finished. If you listen to Robin that won't happen. They tried to have a reunion show a couple of years ago but Elizabeth backed out at the last minute. The "angelic" sound that comes out of her mouth is very beautiful indeed, she seems to be a very sensitive person.

[Ethereralgreta]

From what I read, or heard through the grapevine, RG stated there would never be a CT reunion due to the fact that two of the members were 'together' and had broken up in a nasty way. That being said, time heals all wounds, and I imagine, hopefully someday, someone can get on good terms with someone else and allow RG to take the old tapes and put together some of their late tracks to form into a complete album.
Anyone who can call themselves an audio aficionado, can appreciate the work that goes into the sound of both RG's own current music and that of the CT's.
To say it isn't 'macho enough' is like saying I am living my sonic life with my ear blinders on.tutt. I know that I as a musician can appreciate his sound, as well as the sound put out by artists like Judas Priest. It is simply a different kind of sound, is all, but both valid within the genres they represent.

[Digitar]

Originally Posted by Ethereralgreta

From what I read, or heard through the grapevine, RG stated there would never be a CT reunion due to the fact that two of the members were 'together' and had broken up in a nasty way. That being said, time heals all wounds, and I imagine, hopefully someday, someone can get on good terms with someone else and allow RG to take the old tapes and put together some of their late tracks to form into a complete album.
Anyone who can call themselves an audio aficionado, can appreciate the work that goes into the sound of both RG's own current music and that of the CT's.
To say it isn't 'macho enough' is like saying I am living my sonic life with my ear blinders on.tutt. I know that I as a musician can appreciate his sound, as well as the sound put out by artists like Judas Priest. It is simply a different kind of sound, is all, but both valid within the genres they represent.

I personally couldn't care less about somebody questioning my manhood about liking the Cocteau Twins.

They were a brilliant group of people that made some of the most sonically inspiring music that I've heard. As far as a reunion I guess I can understand that Robin and Elizabeth had a pretty wild marriage and to be with your ex's for any length of time would be emotionally taxing. Their time together brought Robin to Heavy drug addiction and Elizabeth to have a nervous breakdown. So I guess any talk of a reunion is pretty much out of the question for now. But,WHO KNOWS?