High End Cables for my Studio

[space2012]

Originally Posted by Fishy1500

Hmm, thats interesting. I've never tried that before either, but I just found this in the product description:

"All of MOGAMI 110W AES/EBU digital audio cables are designed with flexibility and handy configuration. Since AES/EBU digital audio cable is low capacitance characteristics, it can result in high quality analog audio transmission in general especially for high frequency range."

Has anyone else tried this before?

Mogami vs Belden - Critical Listening Test, Clean Out Your Ears!

[space2012]

Originally Posted by INDECISIVE_2000

If you have some time on your hands, building your own cables is a cost saving way to improve your cabling. I went to an electronics distributor and bought Belden cables and Neutrik 1/4" connectors as well as XLR connectors and built the cables myself.

You would need to know how to solder, but that isn't very difficult and you'll get better as you make more. It is a time consuming task.

The cables I made are 10 times better than cables I bought, although, the ones I bought aren't known as high end cables. It will save you money if you need a lot, but if you are making dollars during the time you would need to build them, probably should buy. Time is money.

proel diehard are air sealed, hi quality OFC, gold plated connectors at reasonable price.

[space2012]

Originally Posted by ThatSoundsWHAMMY

High end cables or Coat hangers

i know what i hear...
i dont care about some looser writing lies, no photos, no names.
no audio files.

that article just reflects the hearing problems most people have.
becouse THERE IS A BIG DIFERENCE!.

[space2012]

Originally Posted by basshoss

Go the whole hog. Blow your mind and wallet.

Van den Hul: MC - The PLATINUM HYBRID Balanced (Halogen Free)

i think VDH is like Lavry Gold converters.

Found: Lavry Gold AD122-96MKIII vs. Apogee AD-16x

Found: Digital Cable Differences

[space2012]

Originally Posted by guitarz

Hello,

In the constant quest to elevate the quality of my Project Studio I'm considering now, replacing all the cables with High End, High Quality cables.
What are your toughts, advices, etc?

Thanks in advance
Ricardo

cables are personal taste.

stranded vs. solid conductor
heavy stranded vs. low stranded
twisted vs. straight
OFC vs. Silver Plated OFC vs. silver center around OFC vs. pure silver etc..
hollow oval conductor vs. solid or stranded.
heavy OFC shielded vs. medium aluminium shield vs. no shield.

some sound similar some dont.

thers verry good cables at reasonable prices.
also thers overpriced sh!t.

Lava Cable

www.thecableco.com

[Exmun]

Originally Posted by Fletcher

In every studio where I have ever specified the wire it has always been Canare "Star-Quad" for the mic lines [excellent RF rejection!!] and Mogami for all the line level interconnects.

You can get better and fancier but you'll spend tens of thousands of dollars more. If you've got it, go for it... if you don't those will work just fine.

Peace.

thumbsupthumbsup Don't really need to cosign Fletcher, because his word speaks for itself. But for me Mogami and Canare are what I use and they are excellent. Both reject RF noise well, but it's surprising that they indeed have different sounds. My canare cables allow almost the complete band to pass. Basses or vocals through there, you hear all the lows. My Mogami cables do pass lows as well, but it's a tighter sound than the more wide open Canare sound. At least to my ears.

Fletcher's use above is an interesting use given the qualities of these two brands.

Either way, there are more expensive cabling, but I'm not sure that you're going to get that extra value out of them in a tracking situation. If we're talking about mastering, it might make a difference. But not for tracking.

Btw, I get my cabling from Markertek - Audio and Video Equipment - Professional Broadcast Studio Equipment. Great place and reasonable prices. You can even customize your cables by color and length or buy bulk cabling and make your own cables.

[Jim Williams]

Originally Posted by guitarz

And it has no bad effect on the low end of the sound?
Do you hear any difference in the audio in the low end as well?

Best regards
Ricardo

No, the low end is easy, a coat hanger would do.

As to star quad, I stopped using it back in the late 80's. I heard the cloudy sound it produced and didn't like it. I only use it for my audio Precision test rig as it eliminates any interference to low level test results. A review of the Canare tech sheet shows severe attenuation above 20k hz with the star quad wire. We used to wire it blue/white, opposite of the intended wiring just to lower the stray capacitance.

Then I found Belden 9182 lan network wire, I still use that as it's 8 pf per foot capacitance, very low. That wire makes it sound like your ears pop after landing in a jet compared to star quad. Goodby clouds, hello sunshine.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

[Audiop]

Jim, it would be interesting to hear these effects.

Would you mind looping a suitable piece of music with this low C cable and some generic/standard quality cable and post it?

I would hate to miss out on something recording acoustic and classical music just becasue of poor cables.

Usually I don't hear a difference on shorter lengths of line level cables but possibly I have just used very similar cables.

About attenuation above 20k with starquad. I measured a 10 meter length of GAC-4 with a 100ohm source resistance with a impedance balanced output. At 20k the level was down aprox. 0.015dB. With an impedance balanced output stage (driving a balanced load were the middle point between these resistors is referenced to ground) the capacitive load that is seen is the one between one condutor (or one of the pairs in a star quad) and screen. This C is bigger than the C between the conductors in GAC-4.

With a true balanced output the C load is the smaller smaller value seen between the star pairs. Also the problem is even less when using low impedance mic's such as MKH's and similar or high current line stages..

What I'm trying to get at is in my measured set up we have a worse condition than optimum but still negligible roll-off at 20k. With a 25 ohm driving impedance the 0.015dB loss is pushed up to 80kHz if I'm thinking correct? Also a true balanced output will se (in the case of GAC-4) a C of 140pF/m instead of the 200pF/m that is seen between one pair of conductors and the screen with a impedance balanced output stage.


It would also be interesting to see actual measurements on two cables with such big differences that you describe.


/Peter, slightly sceptic but always willing to learn.

[Bassmankr]

Probably wouldn't hurt to check out Belden 9271 Twinax computer cable also as a low cost alternative. Foil shield so for fixed installs. It specs at 12.2pF/ft capacitance, 124 Ohms impedance, 0.188uH/ft inductance. I picked up two 1000' boxes off ebay for $40 total (2 cents a foot).

[space2012]

Originally Posted by Bassmankr

Probably wouldn't hurt to check out Belden 9271 Twinax computer cable also as a low cost alternative. Foil shield so for fixed installs. It specs at 12.2pF/ft capacitance, 124 Ohms impedance, 0.188uH/ft inductance. I picked up two 1000' boxes off ebay for $40 total (2 cents a foot).

belden-m 8451 works but... is not OFC, works nice for replacing some headphone cables.
...
i was verry disapointed with the Belden 9907,
the dielectric insulating foam desintegrates with time, and creates distortions.

[Bassmankr]

Comparing the Belden 9182 Twinax to the 9271 Twinax: Same foil sheilding; Insulator is different - 9182 has high density foamed polyethylene - 9271 just polyethylene; Wire gauge is 22awg for 9182 - 25awg for 9271 - both tinned copper. A quick online check has 9182 at $1 a foot. Here are the rest of the 9182 specs to compare, 8.8pF/ft capacitance, 150 Ohms impedance, 0.293uH/ft inductance.

[Bassmankr]

By the way, although I picked up the Belden 9271 for 2 cents a foot, a quick online price check has it at 34 cents a foot. Still a low cost alternative to Belden 9182. Ebay can be your friend.

[Sonik31]

Originally Posted by guitarz

Thanks for the Help Sonik.
I contacted a reseller for Mogami here in Portugal. Waiting for a quote!

Could you send me the reseller contact?

[Jeroen123]

Why don't you try Twisted Pair Designs - Ascent series. Great performance for a more then reasonable price. Welcome to TwistedPairDesigns.com & FrontRowCenter.com - audio & video cables for the discerning listener and professional

Also available in custom lenghts/ configurations or bulk so you can make your own sets of cables in the desired lenghts.

We could ship to Portugal if neccessary. From recording to mastering studios we have had lots of satisfied customers with these cables.


Regards,

Jeroen Vroegindweij
Waxflowers Musical Instruments

[DarkSky Media]

Originally Posted by Fishy1500

Hmm, thats interesting. I've never tried that before either, but I just found this in the product description:

"All of MOGAMI 110W AES/EBU digital audio cables are designed with flexibility and handy configuration. Since AES/EBU digital audio cable is low capacitance characteristics, it can result in high quality analog audio transmission in general especially for high frequency range."

Has anyone else tried this before?

Yes, we have tried it - and I can confirm what Jim has said.

[jchadstopherhuez]

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

If you go with common copper audio wire like Mogami or Canare, use the digital 110 ohm versions. Those are less capacitance and do sound more open on the highs. The audio versions sound cloudy in comparison, if you do that sort of thing.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

i have always done most of my wiring with mogami or canare. usually canare star quad for line runs and mic cables. switchcraft and neutrik connectors...no complaints. never felt the need for "better" cable.

i had a ton of mogami aes cable left over from my last studio install...3162 ? i believe.

ended up making some mic and line cables from it...and could not believe the difference in the top end of signals. it really did sound better. i'm not much for shootouts and tests...but a quick recording of drum overheads made me a quick believer in the mogami digital cable for analog signal runs.

i'm generally fairly skeptical about super high end cables...but, there was a distinct difference to my ears (via my monitoring chain...spl monitor controller, acurus power amps and proac 100 monitors) between my canare star quad snakes, and the new snakes i made from the mogami digital aes cable.

thinking i may make my next set of mic cables from the same.

cheers !

jchristopherhughes

[Jim Williams]

Everything sounds great until you hear something better.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

[mobius.media]

So for Mogami digital, what model do we want:

Redco Audio

W3080 I take it?

How's the shielding/RF rejection compared to analog 2549? Does it fray or damage easily with use or is it applicable for patch cords as well?

[nosebleedaudio]

Originally Posted by mobius.media

So for Mogami digital, what model do we want:

Redco Audio

W3080 I take it?

How's the shielding/RF rejection compared to analog 2549? Does it fray or damage easily with use or is it applicable for patch cords as well?

For heavy use I would 2549, 3080 is not as robust.
Plus at 3.4pf versus 14pf, the 2549 wins...

[Sigma]

just straighten and dip a few of these in liquid plastic

[DarkSky Media]

Originally Posted by Sigma

just straighten and dip a few of these in liquid plastic

Since you're so easily pleased, I don't suppose you even need to straighten them, really...

[Sen]

DIY Klotz and Neutrik work very well here..

[Blacky]

Originally Posted by Fishy1500

Hmm, thats interesting. I've never tried that before either, but I just found this in the product description:

"All of MOGAMI 110W AES/EBU digital audio cables are designed with flexibility and handy configuration. Since AES/EBU digital audio cable is low capacitance characteristics, it can result in high quality analog audio transmission in general especially for high frequency range."

Has anyone else tried this before?

Yes i tried it too, because of this thread i wanted to check out and..........works great!
I took out all my old cables and soldering Mogami 110Ohm 2552. All my stuff is connected with this cables. They are cheap!!
For Mic and few other things i made 2549 analog cables too

[RyanC]

I just redid a mish mash of mic cables (mostly mogami and canare star quad) with 9182 and Carrol c8014 (basically the same but the Carrol is cheaper). Definitely sounds a little more open and less noisy overall.

I'd say solder your own is the way to go, then solder up some XLR panels for a mic level patchbay. What's the point of having all those different mic pre's if you can't access/switch them easily? Working great here at least. . .

[Teddy Ray]

I use Cat 5 for mic and speaker cable.

love it.

[NF Audio]

I think good quality shielded cables are worth investing in, because

a) it lowers the noise in your system and...

b) it also means you won't have to replace/repair them for a long time.

I think those two things are more important than the minute tonal difference you'll hear between cables.

my $0.02? Get a soldering iron, if you don't already have one, and learn to use it well. Then get yourself a 100m roll of nice, decent shielded audio cable (doesn't have to break the bank, Canare or similar is fine IMO). Buy a whole bunch connectors relevant to you (I use amphenol, because that is what my supplier stocks, and I find they are good) and get cracking. You might not use all 100m, so you'll have it around for next time you buy gear

Your racks and desk will be tidy because all your cables are the right length and if you build them right, they'll last forever.

Nick
NF Audio.

[Blacky]

Originally Posted by Teddy Ray

I use Cat 5 for mic and speaker cable.

love it.

CAT5 .....interesting........must check it out!