>> All Portico series more HI-END with 30 cents and 30 minutes << :D

[Purusha]

I didn't notice any difference... IMO there is no use of changing these caps...

[DarkSky Media]

Originally Posted by Ijustmake-Beats

To be precise I had the old electrolytic capacitors taken out and these put in their place - PANASONIC FM 220uF 35VDC ELECTROLYTIC CAPACITOR, as was recommended earlier on in this thread.

See the attached files for examples, for what they're worth anyway.

Since all my Portico's are now modded I can't go back and make any more 'stock' mixes, but, I did try to match the old levels as much as I could when making the 'modded' versions of some old mixes. If you're able to see past general differences in the mixes then you might be able to see the difference that the mod makes.

As for what to listen to: on both of these mixes I used a Portico on the 'drum' bus, the modded mix has some Portico on the 'samples' bus, the stock mix doesn't though as my 2nd Portico was out for repairs at the time.

I've always liked my Portico's but I feel that this mod has made a slight improvement still, though personally I wouldn't call it a night and day difference myself. I feel do like my modded comps have a slightly more open top end and that the sound is a tad more crisp than before, but that's just after a couple of hours of use. My opinions are subject to change.

Thanks to a1236040 for the heads up on this one btw!

Frankly, it sounds slightly "less" (cheaper, a tad brittle) with the mod IMO.

I have no trouble hearing the difference, but it's not what I'd call an improvement. I would put it back the way it was if I were in your shoes.

.

[Ijustmake-Beats]

Hmmm, yea, some of the effect of the mod gets lost in the mix a little, especially when the Portico isn't on the 2-bus, but, I think the attached drum loop might illustrate the difference a little better.

These two clips have received no further treatment after the mix.

The Portico is on the drum bus using parallel compression, the kick and snare both have DBX 160 XT's on 'em for both mixes. The hi-hat just has a plugin compressor.

Once again there are mixing differences between the clips (eg, the hi-hats were mixed a little soft on the stock mix), but, if you are able to hear past those then you should be able to hear the mod. There is a difference, it's subtle, but the high-end is more open and thump a little more solid.

If you don't hear the difference then congratulations, your Portico gear still sounds great. Personally I think the upgrade is worth it however.

[tapehiss]

I can hear why some people like the mod.

I imagine there are many who are perfectly happy with the sound as is though......

I always think it's great though when engineers go the extra step and customize their gear to make it a little more suiting to their needs.

[GYang]

Originally Posted by tapehiss

I imagine there are many who are perfectly happy with the sound as is though......

I always think it's great though when engineers go the extra step and customize their gear to make it a little more suiting to their needs.

It is great as is. We played here with mods and no real point in that, except in true sense of customizing gears to be voiced different for whatever purpose behind that.
Same goes for any gear from any manufacturer.

[Matt Syson]

Hi
The only way to get any sense from this is for someone to get 4 or 6 brand (or more) new units built from the same batch. Check thoroughly that all of them sound 'the same' THEN mod 2 or 3 of them and repeat the 'tests' and try to identify which 2 (3) have been modded.
Most of the 'tests' reported so far are so imprecise they are hardly worthwhile.
ANY units 'tested' should have been 'burned in' for a period of say 3 or 4 days at least before listening to them.
Matt S

[arteck]

Originally Posted by a1236040

Yes, very simple, fast and cheap. All Portico series ( 5012 - 5014 - 5015 - 5016 - 5032 - 5033 - 5042 - 5043 ) lack the low end, it seems to be rubbery, unfocused or so. Why ? The shitty "Motien" power supply inside the unit.

Change the seven electrolytic by Nichicon "cheap series" VZ 220uF 25V with low impedance ones as Panasonic FM. (see the picture, the condensers are at top right)

Now your Portico module sounds more punchy, a lot more punchy, more detailed with better transient response, great tight bass, more deep and open sound as Neve professional gear.

I don't know why they don't do this during production, the cost is ridiculous but the sonic differences are huge !

If you want more, simply bypass the internal DC dual power amplifier and use a good external not switching one. (quite expensive and technical mod. but worth the money).

Try and let me know!
(of course: I have done it !)




Marco

How to bypass the internal DC module? Maybe I wanna have a try.

[deft_bonz]

Originally Posted by arteck

How to bypass the internal DC module? Maybe I wanna have a try.

Before you do... Has RND maybe changed something during all these years? The design changed, maybe they also upgraded some parts.

[arteck]

Originally Posted by deft_bonz

Before you do... Has RND maybe changed something during all these years? The design changed, maybe they also upgraded some parts.

I've checked it and find it a 06 version, the earliest one?
Moded the 7 caps last night, much punchier and opening.
Plan the bypassing this night.

[arteck]

DC module bypassed with a linear power of fairly high quality. Steady and solid, not bad.

[Denny C]

Lots of reading on this thread!

[arteck]

I've tried the Panasonic FM, FC and the Philips BC136 on my 5042. BC fits it best, punchy, clear and the most musical. FC is better than FM. The portico with FM sounds a little too hard and plain.

[Purusha]

Originally Posted by arteck

I've tried the Panasonic FM, FC and the Philips BC136 on my 5042. BC fits it best, punchy, clear and the most musical. FC is better than FM. The portico with FM sounds a little too hard and plain.

How do you know? Did you record all of them... I kinda doubt one can remember the sound in details after 5min passed... I would like to hear some sound samples before I change them in mine.

[rogerbrain]

not changing mine.. if i want a different sound I'll use a different gear.

the portico stuff sounds and responds quite differently when pushed and padded than when it is 'coasting' running the pre out HOT into the comp with the comp out put LOUD into the EQ to 'pad' it gives several options to get some transformer saturation ( ain't trannies what Rupert's thing is about anyway? )

for grins watch a peak/rms meter while you adjust this..pretty amazing

got the pre's comp's eq's and tape thingie. use and like enough to keep.

[arteck]

Originally Posted by Purusha

How do you know? Did you record all of them... I kinda doubt one can remember the sound in details after 5min passed... I would like to hear some sound samples before I change them in mine.

Yeah, it's a problem. All I said is my listening experience tells me, quite subjective. However, the change is apparent indeed.

[Purusha]

I ordered some Philips BC136 caps... will make some tests...

[MasterBlasterUK]

Is the Portico stock PSU and electroylitic setup also be used in the Portico 2 Buss Processor?
It's much Larger. A 2u unit and built after other portico models. It probably requires a different more powerful PSU. But I dont know?
Anyone know if this unit should also be in "the mod list"?
Thinking of buying one!
Any users of Portico 2 care to comment?
Same symtoms? Any muddy smearyness with bass and subs?
Much Love

[JoshRND]

Originally Posted by MasterBlasterUK

Is the Portico stock PSU and electroylitic setup also be used in the Portico 2 Buss Processor?
It's much Larger. A 2u unit and built after other portico models. It probably requires a different more powerful PSU. But I dont know?
Anyone know if this unit should also be in "the mod list"?
Thinking of buying one!
Any users of Portico 2 care to comment?
Same symtoms? Any muddy smearyness with bass and subs?
Much Love

The Portico II has an internal PSU.

[arteck]

Josh, do the white panel version of Porticos use FC instead of Nichicon?

[neumannizer]

Originally Posted by arteck

Josh, do the white panel version of Porticos use FC instead of Nichicon?

I will open my unit next days and let you know...

[GYang]

I have early (pre white) units and white (for 5088).
All sound great, replacing caps will slightly change any gear, so whether is it better or not depends entirely on listener. I can't say 'white face' is different from earlier one sonically, same ballpark definitely.
After some experiments done with tweaks and no real improvement achieved IMO this whole thread can be considered as actually of no practical value for gearslutzs.

[neumannizer]

Originally Posted by GYang

I have early (pre white) units and white (for 5088).
All sound great, replacing caps will slightly change any gear, so whether is it better or not depends entirely on listener. I can't say 'white face' is different from earlier one sonically, same ballpark definitely.
After some experiments done with tweaks and no real improvement achieved IMO this whole thread can be considered as actually of no practical value for gearslutzs.

Well I heard couple of files here ( the ones with spoken words ) which proves that modification did improved the unit. This improvment is exactly what I am looking for in otherwise great unit.

I checked my unit today and it has the nichicon parts but instead of motian it has astec power regulator...

[neumannizer]

Can somebody confirm this are the right parts :

Panasonic FM 220uF 25V

and where to buy them in Europe?

[901]

mouser.com

[pacealmondo]

Originally Posted by GYang

IMO this whole thread can be considered as actually of no practical value for gearslutzs.

+1

[pasarski]

Originally Posted by Ijustmake-Beats

Hmmm, yea, some of the effect of the mod gets lost in the mix a little, especially when the Portico isn't on the 2-bus, but, I think the attached drum loop might illustrate the difference a little better.

These two clips have received no further treatment after the mix.

The Portico is on the drum bus using parallel compression, the kick and snare both have DBX 160 XT's on 'em for both mixes. The hi-hat just has a plugin compressor.

Once again there are mixing differences between the clips (eg, the hi-hats were mixed a little soft on the stock mix), but, if you are able to hear past those then you should be able to hear the mod. There is a difference, it's subtle, but the high-end is more open and thump a little more solid.

If you don't hear the difference then congratulations, your Portico gear still sounds great. Personally I think the upgrade is worth it however.

Sorry, but this comparison doesn't work. If the clips are not the same there's no point listening. If somebody did a proper comparison, (like drums with the same mix and settings ) I could maybe take a listen, but seems like it's not something anybody believing in this questionable mod is willing to do.

[neumannizer]

Originally Posted by pasarski

Sorry, but this comparison doesn't work. If the clips are not the same there's no point listening. If somebody did a proper comparison, (like drums with the same mix and settings ) I could maybe take a listen, but seems like it's not something anybody believing in this questionable mod is willing to do.

The reason I am interested in mod is that I heard the files here before and after. The moded files, the one with spoken words, are much better in my opinion and exactly what I am missing by portico comp. Moded files sound cleaner and and more open.

[pasarski]

Originally Posted by neumannizer

The reason I am interested in mod is that I heard the files here before and after. The moded files, the one with spoken words, are much better in my opinion and exactly what I am missing by portico comp. Moded files sound cleaner and and more open.

The one comparing two different takes? I really wish nobody starts to changing caps based on that. The differences between different takes of spoken word or singing can be much bigger than even big differences in electronics, let alone changing some PSU filtering caps.

[neumannizer]

Well if you are not interested its another thing . I am interested in this mod. I have the parts and will do the mod soon. If you are interested I can post before and after samples with same setting and same material. Maybe its a BS maybe not i dont know but I think it`s worth trying ..

[Ijustmake-Beats]

I have to confess that I went back to the standard Nichicon VZ caps.

Basically, the Panasonic FM caps did sound a little bit sweeter in the tops and mids but they were just too tight in the bottom end. I consistently found it too easy to get an overly-squeezed end result with the Panasonic's installed. Someone earlier said that Panasonics sounded a little 'hard' and I'd have to agree. With the VZ's back in those problems are gone, it's back to business as usual.

So, um, I guess in my experience, it seems like a more expensive part doesn't automatically guarantee a better sound. It could be better in one way and worse in another way. I'm also told that the 'standard' parts, such as the VZ series, are far better today than they were even 10 years ago and that they easily fulfill the basic technical requirements of studio gear, so, just because they're from the 'standard' range doesn't make them inferior or inadequate as such. Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm also told that generally some 90% of the 'sound' of a piece of audio gear is in the circuit design anyway, so, yea, the magic of the Portico's is right there in the stock machine. And it would appear that chopping and changing more esoteric parts into an existing circuit design will guarantee to expose your expensive compressor to a lot of wear and tear, but will not necessarily guarantee an actual tangible improvement.

Anyhow, if I had money to burn and a whole lot more time than I do now I'd probably be a slut and buy a Portico just for experimenting and try out every esoteric cap I can find, but, I don't. And since it appears that I can only influence the final few percent of an already amazing sounding compressor, I'm gonna leave mine as is. When I want a different sound I'll just use a different compressor, as someone already said earlier... good advice....