Inner Tube The SumThang vs. Dangerous Music D-Box

[SEA]

Has anyone heard innerTUBE Audios The Sumthang and compared it to the Dangerous Music D-Box?

Here's a link to both

Sumthang - The innerTUBE AUDIO SumThing

Dangerous Music D-Box - Dangerous Products: D-BOX

Now the D-Box runs $1,399 and the Sumthang runs like $2,500

So I guess the NEXT question is the why $1,100 difference?

Is the Sumthang THAT much better or THAT much pricier?

Any A/B demos are welcome!

Jamie

[SEA]

Got a link to the demos?

[andrewj]

I think the right comparison wouls be:

SumThing vs. Dangerous 2-bus

[SEA]

I ment links to audio demos from vintage king website.

[Doc Mixwell]

In this corner, weighing in at.....

I've used both. The AST was built for people who wanted a box like the Dangerous 2-bus, but want "a sound" on the inputs, and not just a vast amount of headroom. Its much bigger sounding than all the Dangerous Mixers I've used, though the 2-bus is a monster with a DA16x. The DBOX offers an entirely separate spread of electronics, AS WELL as in aesthetic and in feature set.

The Mixer is clean, and able to hear my choice of equipment, without changing the tone, or doing anything to the transients or adding harmonic distortion [see AST for that]. It's on board DAC is SOLID for monitoring and gives you an ACCURATE picture of the RETURN of your SUMMING SYSTEM.

The InnerTUBE is point to point layout with eight custom Input Transformers, right before a tube summing amp that uses super secret Stayne Sauce and go-go juice to amplify whatever is sent through it. This box likes it when you send it monstrously hot level, and it likes it when you have copious amounts of syrupy tube/transformer stuff to patch into it. It will not make a Digi-003 sound better. You need something that sounds good to use this box.

The AST is ALL about "what it's fed from"....It will give you a way to patch outboard and continue the separation in the analog domain. Same with the DBOX, but I will suggest there is another level of "usefulness" that the DBOX has going for it, which just about nails the choice home for me as a better upgrade. There is always headroom for your converter electronics when you mix in stems. But the result of how "good" and personally "acceptable" how the thing reacts, can only be measured when its marched through battle with your weapons.

[SEA]

Originally Posted by Roc Mixwell

In this corner, weighing in at.....

I've used both. The AST was built for people who wanted a box like the Dangerous 2-bus, but want "a sound" on the inputs, and not just a vast amount of headroom. Its much bigger sounding than all the Dangerous Mixers I've used, though the 2-bus is a monster with a DA16x. The DBOX offers an entirely separate spread of electronics, AS WELL as in aesthetic and in feature set.

The Mixer is clean, and able to hear my choice of equipment, without changing the tone, or doing anything to the transients or adding harmonic distortion [see AST for that]. It's on board DAC is SOLID for monitoring and gives you an ACCURATE picture of the RETURN of your SUMMING SYSTEM.

The InnerTUBE is point to point layout with eight custom Input Transformers, right before a tube summing amp that uses super secret Stayne Sauce and go-go juice to amplify whatever is sent through it. This box likes it when you send it monstrously hot level, and it likes it when you have copious amounts of syrupy tube/transformer stuff to patch into it. It will not make a Digi-003 sound better. You need something that sounds good to use this box.

The AST is ALL about "what it's fed from"....It will give you a way to patch outboard and continue the separation in the analog domain. Same with the DBOX, but I will suggest there is another level of "usefulness" that the DBOX has going for it, which just about nails the choice home for me as a better upgrade. There is always headroom for your converter electronics when you mix in stems. But the result of how "good" and personally "acceptable" how the thing reacts, can only be measured when its marched through battle with your weapons.

Ok... but what about some A/B demos between the two units?

SEA

[SEA]

Originally Posted by ncskolrud

man,
do-you-really-need-an--exact-link??????????

uh.... YEAH!!!!!!!!!! LOL!

I always try to give links myself!

But yeah... I could search me self.

[RKrizman]

Here ya go.

InnerTUBE Audio Atomic Sumthang Audio Samples | VintageKing.com

-R

[Fletcher]

Originally Posted by SEA

Ok... but what about some A/B demos between the two units?

SEA

Something like that can, and should only be done with YOUR music in YOUR studio. It is VERY easy to make whatever you want to win "win" during one of these demos [no, I won't tell you how... but it's exceptionally easy to do].

If you bring both units [which sound radically different while doing the same job] into your studio [come to think of it, if I remember correctly the Dangerous has twice as many inputs] and A/B them on YOUR music you'll be more apt to be able to discern which will be best for YOUR sense of aesthetic.

I've not heard the VK samples... but the fact of the matter is that whatever program material they used is most probably NOT anything like the material produced in the original poster's studio and is therefore not germane to the decision process.

VK is a great company, and they're trying their level best to perform a service... but at the end of the day you can't evaluate a piece of equipment from a "sample" of someone else's work [in or out of context], you can only evaluate equipment in your room, on the music on which you work, in the context of that music as it applies to your sense of aesthetic.

Peace.

[RKrizman]

Vintage King did a nice job of posting all those samples, but after I listened to a bunch of them I just said "huh"? I didn't have any stake in the outcome, so the differences, if any, seemed arbitrary. If I were mixing this stuff my senses would be heightened and I'd be lasering in on all sorts of details--in that context, the differences would appear and would matter.

-R

[SEA]

Originally Posted by RKrizman

Vintage King did a nice job of posting all those samples, but after I listened to a bunch of them I just said "huh"? I didn't have any stake in the outcome, so the differences, if any, seemed arbitrary. If I were mixing this stuff my senses would be heightened and I'd be lasering in on all sorts of details--in that context, the differences would appear and would matter.

-R

I could tell the difference a bit (at least I believed so), but my wife who has keen ears couldn't tell the difference. Of course it was after a long day at work for her so....

I also adjusted the volumes of the mixes to be close to the same. Knowing that I'm listening to (let's say) the clean jazz vs. the driven jazz well, I know the driven is supposed to be warmer, perhaps a bit harder sound so I'm looking for it ya know what I mean?

But if I didn't know that from the beginning the subtlety of it might have just gone right passed me (especially if I was and end user).

Is it worth it? Well, maybe. Depends I guess if you had one in your studio and you could mess with it yourself and then say "Ah... that's better."

SEA

[SEA]

Originally Posted by ncskolrud

yeah,-its-hard-to-hear-the-difference....

i-guess-you-could-sum-it-up-by-the-features-of-the-two-

one-offers-tube/tranfos
the-other-offers-great-monitoring/and-clear-summing...

two-different-beast...

im-sure-one-will-serve-you-better...

i=personally-am-liking-the-dbox!

Do you have the D Box? If so, do you have any demos to AB?

I just did a search on google and haven't found any wav demos.

Hey Slutz! If anyone has the D Box, could you post a few mixes with it (both with and with out it ) so we could hear the diff?

SEA

[andrewj]

+1 for Fletcher's post!

You should compare the boxes in your studio with your setup!

I use the Audient Sumo for summing, and in combination with the Fatso and the Alan Smart C2M i get the sound that I want, which is better than the sound I achieved with other setups. I tried other summing boxes and other compressors, but I am hapy with my current setup as a standard. Perhaps I will exchange the Sumo one day, but rightnow I can not say I am unhappy with that one. There were lots of people telling me that this unit will not offer what I am looking for. They were all wrong!

Test as many summing boxes as you can get in the pricerange you are willing to pay. This is the right way to find your ideal solution.

[SEA]

Anyone tried the Folcrom yet?

Roll Music Systems

SEA

[andrewj]

At first I thought you know what you want to buy, but the more posts you make the more I wonder if you have an idea about summing mixers?

So here are some experineces I made and some informations I got. Hopefully the other guys will correct me when I am wrong:

1. The Dangerous 2 Bus has the most headroom of the units mentioned here!

2. There are two totally different leagues sonically: Folcrom, Sumo, XLogic, Dangerous Music and units like that are doing a clean, but however analog summing. Sumthang, Neve (I do not know the name of that unit), Chandler, Phoenix Audio, Shadow Hills and the likes are doing a more "colourful" or flavourful summing.

3. Some units offer 8 Ins, other 16, but the more Ins you have must not mean that you get a better console sound.

4. If yo compare analog summing to DAW summing you will often notice a different result. You will also notice a difference if you sum up digital through the MIO 80bit mixer inside the metric halo interfaces and compare that to a DAW summing.

5. There are genres and musical styles that are loved by their audiences because they sound flat. You do not need a summing unit if you want to achieve that! It is already there! (Sorry, but there are guys asking things like that!).

6. My setup includes a Sumo with an inserted Alan Smart C2M followed by an Empirical Labs Fatso. I usually use both compressors with a minimum of compression, but they still do much more to the sound than the summing! The summing is the icing on the cake, but if you can only afford one unit I would buy the Fatso personally! This was a recommendaton by Disco D some years ago, and I must admit he was right. The Fatso can revitalize a lot and you can add as much colour as you like (or better ntil you start to dislike...).

Good luck

[SEA]

Originally Posted by andrewj

At first I thought you know what you want to buy, but the more posts you make the more I wonder if you have an idea about summing mixers?

So here are some experineces I made and some informations I got. Hopefully the other guys will correct me when I am wrong:

1. The Dangerous 2 Bus has the most headroom of the units mentioned here!

2. There are two totally different leagues sonically: Folcrom, Sumo, XLogic, Dangerous Music and units like that are doing a clean, but however analog summing. Sumthang, Neve (I do not know the name of that unit), Chandler, Phoenix Audio, Shadow Hills and the likes are doing a more "colourful" or flavourful summing.

3. Some units offer 8 Ins, other 16, but the more Ins you have must not mean that you get a better console sound.

4. If yo compare analog summing to DAW summing you will often notice a different result. You will also notice a difference if you sum up digital through the MIO 80bit mixer inside the metric halo interfaces and compare that to a DAW summing.

5. There are genres and musical styles that are loved by their audiences because they sound flat. You do not need a summing unit if you want to achieve that! It is already there! (Sorry, but there are guys asking things like that!).

6. My setup includes a Sumo with an inserted Alan Smart C2M followed by an Empirical Labs Fatso. I usually use both compressors with a minimum of compression, but they still do much more to the sound than the summing! The summing is the icing on the cake, but if you can only afford one unit I would buy the Fatso personally! This was a recommendaton by Disco D some years ago, and I must admit he was right. The Fatso can revitalize a lot and you can add as much colour as you like (or better ntil you start to dislike...).

Good luck

Thanks Andrew for your reply Great info!

Regarding your reply where you said "At first I thought you know what you want to buy, but the more posts you make the more I wonder if you have an idea about summing mixers?" Actually, I'm just learning about them since my studio is getting a major upgrade soon and I'm putting together a list of what I may or may not need.

The reason I mentioned Folcrom was because someone who has a world class studio recommended the Folcrom over the D-Box and The SumThang. So I just asked if anyone had any experience with the Folcrom. Would it be good for me? Don't know. Could perhaps, but still learning about it all.

As far as my studio goes, I have an "in-the-box" setup where all I need is to cut vocals and guitars etc. So for me, the D-Box sounds like the way to go especially (as you stated) that it gives the most headroom. I was looking at the PreSonus Central Station but now it would be best (I believe) to go with the D-Box from what I've read. One guy who had a Central Station picked up the D-Box. Made a TON of difference.

I only need 2 track stereo at the end of my chain going from the HEDD 192 back into my daw to give it that extra. D-Box sounds perfect for that right now.

I may get the UAD version of the Fatso and the El Fatso where (from what I hear so far) is very good. How much I'll use it I don't know. I know the HEDD 192 has some good ways to color the sound as well.

SEA

[andrewj]

Okay now I got your point!

I am not sure, but I heard that this big headroom is only in the 2-bus and not in the D-Box.

However, the D-Box should be the right choice for you, if you wanna go with one solution for summing and monitoring. It will of course be a big improvement.

Also the Fatso Plugin will be a good one, but I must admit that I am a big fan of hardware compressors on the buss. They make a difference to my ears.

[SEA]

Thanks Andrew. I'll look into the 2-bus and see if it makes more of a difference or not.

Also, have you seen the UA video on Fatso? I believe the developer of Fatso worked with them and they even were able to take it one step further to fulfill the developers dream to have El Fatso. From the video, it seems UA nailed it pretty good.

Here's a bit about it:


"Endorsed and scrutinized for accuracy by designer Dave Derr of Empirical Labs, Universal Audio has painstakingly recreated the FATSO Jr. in this highly anticipated UAD Powered Plug-In, capturing the sonic nuances of the original hardware. Specifically, the FATSO is designed to musically integrate frequencies and transients — and increase the apparent volume of your source material — in the same way classic analog equipment does."

Here's the link to the vid.

http://www.uaudio.com/products/software/fatso/index.html

Jamie

[SEA]

Originally Posted by andrewj

I am not sure, but I heard that this big headroom is only in the 2-bus and not in the D-Box.

I just got an email from Dangerous regarding the 2-bus headroom vs. the D-Box.

Here's what they had to say:

"The 2B has 1 dB more headroom due to it's power supply running at +/-18VDC where the LT and D-Box run at +/- 15 VDC, but the difference is academic. +28 dB or +27dB in the summing section still gives more headroom than you will ever need. A converter aligned to -18 dBFS has a max. output of +22 dB.

The summing section of D-Box is exactly half of a 2B LT- 8x2 instead of 16x2. Same components, layout, sound.

Bob at Dangerous"

Jamie

[andrewj]

Great, so buy it man!

[janglyrecords]

Allow me to throw in my 2 cents regarding the Shadow Hills Equinox. I looked at all the summing units when making my decision and while I chose the break-the-bank unit at $3995, it was the BEST value in my opinion. Here's why: 32 Ch. of summing - 16 stereo pairs; 2 GAMA preamps that freakin rule; 3 transformer options that really make a difference; complete center console ops - talkback, three speaker switching plus a headphone amp feed; external interface for CD player, ipod or whatever; easy hookup with DB25's; and SOUND.

Now, I have serial number 2 - so I don't think there are a lot of these out there and it took 90 days to get mine - but it was worth it. If you are mixing to a Masterlink, Tascam or Tape it is really noticeable. I have done all three and there is of course much difference in the 2 track you choose. But, it is all choices. No right or wrong.

I do not work for VK or anyone else for that matter so my review on the VK site is just that - a third party review. Needless to say, I am a believer as well as your mileage may vary.

Enjoy the mixing!

[SEA]

Originally Posted by andrewj

Great, so buy it man!

Naw... get this instead!



LOLOLOL!!!!

Just kidding of course, but DANG it does look sweet!

Jamie

[SEA]

Originally Posted by janglyrecords

Allow me to throw in my 2 cents regarding the Shadow Hills Equinox. I looked at all the summing units when making my decision and while I chose the break-the-bank unit at $3995, it was the BEST value in my opinion. Here's why: 32 Ch. of summing - 16 stereo pairs; 2 GAMA preamps that freakin rule; 3 transformer options that really make a difference; complete center console ops - talkback, three speaker switching plus a headphone amp feed; external interface for CD player, ipod or whatever; easy hookup with DB25's; and SOUND.

Now, I have serial number 2 - so I don't think there are a lot of these out there and it took 90 days to get mine - but it was worth it. If you are mixing to a Masterlink, Tascam or Tape it is really noticeable. I have done all three and there is of course much difference in the 2 track you choose. But, it is all choices. No right or wrong.

I do not work for VK or anyone else for that matter so my review on the VK site is just that - a third party review. Needless to say, I am a believer as well as your mileage may vary.

Enjoy the mixing!

Thanks for the info. I'll look into the Shadow Hills as well!

Jamie

[space2012]

Originally Posted by SEA

Has anyone heard innerTUBE Audios The Sumthang and compared it to the Dangerous Music D-Box?

Here's a link to both

Sumthang - The innerTUBE AUDIO SumThing

Dangerous Music D-Box - Dangerous Products: D-BOX

Now the D-Box runs $1,399 and the Sumthang runs like $2,500

So I guess the NEXT question is the why $1,100 difference?

Is the Sumthang THAT much better or THAT much pricier?

Any A/B demos are welcome!

Jamie

Found: Logic ITB Mix [ALL iZ RADAR AD] vs. InnerTUBE Sumthang/JCF 8DAV

[SEA]

Originally Posted by space2012

Found: Logic ITB Mix [ALL iZ RADAR AD] vs. InnerTUBE Sumthang/JCF 8DAV

Yep! Heard these the other day

[alkooloid]

To me, the Shadow Hills box looks like the sh*t.
I enjoy my Folcrom, and will likely purchase another for 32 inputs,
but boy if I had the dough... the drag as compared to the Folcrom is on the SH you cannot use different mic pres. They do give the option of different xformers, "iron" etc. Looks so sick, though, like all their stuff. I wish there was a law that all gear had to look like theirs. Bakelite, Mmmmmmm.

[RKrizman]

Originally Posted by space2012

Found: Logic ITB Mix [ALL iZ RADAR AD] vs. InnerTUBE Sumthang/JCF 8DAV

Not sure this says much about the sumthang. I think the difference you're hear is due to the JCF converters. Just sayin, so you don't buy a sumthang expecting that result.

-R

[SEA]

After rethinking my gear (and doing research), I decided to go with the Lynx Aurora 16 and the 2-Bus LT by Dangerous.

I'm also going with Dangerous Monitor ST and their DAC ST.

As far as doing it all in the box to me, it's not going to get the sound I want. Going through Analog is the way :-)

Jamie

[tapehiss]

you dont hear to much about the sumthang,

any users to chime in?