Here I go again - BLIND TEST of Lynn Fuston's MIC CD - this time!!

[Sqye]

I've completed one third of my listening agenda today, and will attempt to complete the other 2 if I'm not

I'm happier with this testing cd than I was with the pre CD, because it has a more diverse dynamic and range content. So I'm plowing through it today!

If anyone's heard Lynn's mic cd, let me know how it helped you out, specifically.

I always like stories like, yeah I was going back and forth between the 47 Fet or tube, but after checking out Lynn's CD, I felt like I just HAD to try the tube!! That's an exaggerated one, but you guys get the point (I haven't thoroughly examined the liner notes, yet, because I don't want to know the key yet, while I'm finishing up this blind test, so I don't even know if those mics are both on the cd - it's just an example - I'm assuming they're both on the cd, maybe I'm wrong).

I will post more detailed notes than I did for my pre CD auditions - SO PREPARE YOURSELVES.

I've been thinking of compiling my own cd (or other format) with more contemporary vocals and some urban vocals, as well. Because I need to hear more aggressive, hard-edged in your face vocals, even energetic pop country, latin, dance and some r&b stuff, etc. (also to cover a broader vocal range).

For the more musically serious - or professionals not thinking POP, a more contemporary serious musical piece like Bernstein's Chichester Psalms could make a substantial dynamic, harmonic, textural, and frequential test of any piece of gear to see if they're worth their salt. That'd probably be a bit of a trick, but it might be worth it.

This could address other relevant areas of work being done by urban and serious producers, engineers and artists (such as myself - minus the serious part ) that I feel are missing on these testing CDs.

I'm not COMMITTING to this job, YET, because I DO have an IDEA of how much work is involved, having recorded my own sample cds, and the like.

So If anyone has any suggestions about what THEY'd like to hear on a mic and or pre testing cd, it'd be great. We could do compressors, too - I know that gets a bit hairy - but it's such an integral part of most serious recorded vocal sound. It could be minimal, but it'd be better than nothing at all. Again, the format wouldn't necessarily have to be CD, but whatever - I'm open.

What do y'all think - would you be willing to help me out? Or maybe someone's already doing this kind of a project!! Any ideas?

Anyhow, wish me luck. I'll try not to let any crickets into the studio this time.

[Sqye]

Well I just finished tallying up some of the basic results of my testing all day today. I have pretty detailed notes, spreadsheets, and a summary. So, I'll begin posting some of these results over the next little bit.

[C.Lambrechts]

Well, just to add my 2 cents in here and definately not to stirr things up. I definately have a lot of respect for Lyn and what he does. The tests and CD's are very helpfull and educational at times and god knows he does them better then a lot of us would out here.

That said however, There comes a point when those CD's become rather useless and have to be put away in the closet. And you actually pointed out a perfect example of just that yourself when you said :

------
I've been thinking of compiling my own cd (or other format) with more contemporary vocals and some urban vocals, as well. Because I need to hear more aggressive, hard-edged in your face vocals, even energetic pop country, latin, dance and some r&b stuff, etc.
------

another voice and another style and another vibe and another way in another room .... would maybe give other results. Other mics combined with other pre's etc etc ...

My point : All is relative I know, and a good mic and a good pre will 9/10 work on nearly anything and on a lazy day ....

BUT this is high end and that's not the way we do things here. You will never know if the pre or the mic or whatever else is right for the job untill you actually try it. And possibly compare it to something else.

Listening test CD's are like Bob Katz' mastering manual. Do you realy think you're a mastering engineer after you read that book 10 times ?

[RKrizman]

I think those CDs are of dubious value. For the home listener there's no reference point for the original sound, emotion or intention of the music. Better, I think, to grab a couple of contenders and have it out in your own space. I especially don't see the value in reading about how other people evaluated the mics on the CD--it's just one step further from the original event filtered through one person's arbitrary opinion.

If you've actually used a particular mic in a particular application, that can sometimes be worth reading about.

-R

[u b k]

i'm not sure i fully agree with you gents. then again, i'm not sure i disagree either... i have to try a few pieces out, then i'll know.

your points are well taken, about different style, intent, room, and source. doubly so about not having been there. then again, i wasn't there for *any* of the recordings that live in my cd collection, but i'm always fascinated by, and learn things from, discussions/interviews with the people who did them.

but back to the cd's: i found thru blind listening on the pre cd that there were a handful of pre's that i loved on every source. specifically, the daking had me going "wow" every time it popped up, even though i didn't know what i was listening to at the time. same goes for the martech mss10.

i'm pretty sure that means something, and i'm pretty sure i know what it means: i gotta check out the daking and the martech in my space. i'm pretty sure i'll love them.

i'll let you know when those "pretty sure's" become certainty.


gregoire
del ubik

[Sqye]

Lynn Fuston Microphone Audition CD
3 separate consecutive auditions by Joseph Briggs (Sqye) – Favorite Picks
49 microphones auditioned per voice, per listen cycle (total mic auditions - 294).
I have WAY detailed results, but this is my simple submission.
If folks want more details, please post, and I’ll be happy to provide spreadsheets with my comments on all the mics. (3 two-page spreadsheets) along with some of my analysis.
Remember, I was listening specifically for mics that could handle high spls on female vocals. Since there are no high spls female vocals, I had to do the best I could by rating the higher spl male vocals. Also, because I was concerned about high spl handling, the fact that the 57, RE-20 and 441 are in the list does not surprise me.

The NUMBER TO THE LEFT IS THE NUMBER OF TIMES I picked THAT MIC out of my top 3 RATED CHOICES (out of 1-5, 5 being the best, so, in other words, anything rated between 3 and 5). It comes down to this, these are the mics I picked from my average rating of (3) to my favorite rating of (5) from my original take sheets. One of those mics I actually picked 4 times - the GT Electronics AM 62 - hence the (4) next to it, all the others I picked less for my purposes. It may be a bit confusing, but, hey, lets see YOU listen to 300 takes, take detailed notes, and then post them for all to see!!!

JUST TO CLARIFY, I HAD ALREADY DISMISSED THE MICS THAT I DIDN'T LIKE FROM MY ORIGINAL AUDITIONS OF THE CD - ANY MIC THAT I RATED A 1 OR A 2 ON MY ORIGINAL TAKE SHEETS IS NOT HERE ON THIS LIST - THESE ARE ONLY THE MICS I LIKED BEST IN ORDER OF HOW MANY TIMES I PICKED EACH ONE (SO, NOT IN ORDER OF ALL THE MICS ON THE CD - YOU WON'T SEE ALL THE MICS ON THE CD ON THIS PARTICULAR LIST).

My priorities, again, were:

Balanced frequency response (does the mic have dull hi mids?, etc.)
Ability to handle high spls, especially in higher register
Clarity/ detail (as opposed to muddiness, or lack of articulation)
Presence (consistancy in focusing and delivering the sound of the source)
Smooth dynamic spectrum (obviously, many of these mics NEED compression)
Ability to handle proximity & any other weird harsh anomolies (like sibilance, etc.)
Character - any warmth, punchiness, inate compression, tube grit, and/or color

So, here goes!!!!!

Favorite Mics (Female Vox) - Listen #1
(4) GT Electronics AM 62
(3) Soundelux ELUX 25
(3) Manley Reference Gold
(3) Lawson L-47MP
(3) Blue Dragonfly
(3) AT 4033a/SM
(2) ADK A 51 type III
(1) Lawson L-251

Favorite Mics (Male Vox) - Listen #1
(4) GT Electronics AM 62
(3) Sanken CU-41
(3) AKG *C 12
(3) Lawson L-47MP
(3) Neumann M 147
(3) Shure SM-57
(2) Telefunken ELA M-251
(2) Sheffield Labs *Tube Mic
(2) Neumann *U 67

Favorite Mics (Female Vox) - Listen #2
(4) GT Electronics AM 62
(3) Soundelux ELUX 251
(3) Sanken CU-41
(3) Neumann M 147
(3) Manley Reference Gold
(3) Blue Dragonfly
(3) AKG *C 12
(3) AT 4033a/SM
(3) Shure SM-57
(2) Telefunken ELA M-251
(2) Manley Reference Cardioid
(2) AT 4050/ CM5
(1) Sennheiser MKH-800 P48
(1) Sennheiser 441
(1) Lucid-by-Stayne MM 2000

Favorite Mics (Male Vox) - Listen #2
(3) Neumann M 147
(1) Neumann *U 47
(1) AT 4060

Favorite Mics (Female Vox) - Listen #3
(3) Soundelux ELUX 251
(3) Sanken CU-41
(3) Manley Reference Gold
(3) Lawson L-47MP
(3) Blue Dragonfly
(3) AKG *C 12
(3) AT 4033a/SM
(3) Shure SM-57
(2) Soundelux U 99
(2) Manley Reference Cardioid
(2) DPA 3541
(2) AT 4050/ CM5
(1) Soundelux U 95S
(1) Rode *Classic
(1) EV RE-20
(1) Blue Mouse
(1) AT 4047 SV

Favorite Mics (Male Vox) - Listen #3
(4) GT Electronics AM 62
(2) Soundelux U 99
(2) Sheffield Labs *Tube Mic
(2) Neumann *U 67
(2) DPA 3541
(2) ADK A 51 type III
(1) Neumann TLM 103
(1) Shure KSM 44/SL


There, that wasn't so bad.

Thanks, so much, y'all, for your comments.

I'm used to doing really analytical work in the studio, and I'm not looking for any "lazy days'" recording set-up because that just leads to the proverbial "celebration of sameness" to me (Zappa) IMHO (remember Alan Parsons slamming the 87s for its "over-used" sound?)

I do agree that we all have to do the best we can, but how many of you guys have a $22,000 microphone hanging around (forget I asked - I know I'll want to go hang myself when you guys start bragging about your goods).

Also, there are quite a few mics here that I haven't used (and I HAVE used MANY great mics) - so that's INTERESTING to me - because I'm a gear slut (maybe not enough of a slut to be BONA FIDE like alla you guys , but let's just say I'm a little gear crack ho, if it breaks down the ego barriers, and helps us get to the source - whatever that means).

So I think it's great that Lynn did this work, and that we have the opportunity to check it out. Who knows, maybe if we learn ONE new bit of information, it's valuable. And I've learned LOTS in the passed 2 weeks listening to Lynn's Pre and Mic CDs.

I'm sorry but, in principle, you may be right about a "mastering manual", but this is AUDIO information - and, as far as I'm concerned - the GOLD is there IN THE RECORDINGS (I actually picked the Manley GOLD 3 times [don't kill me if you hate that mic] hee, hee).

Everyone should check these cd's out - there's a ton of good audio data there - and the proof IS in the pudding (and the pudding IS the CD - it's not a MANUAL about how to LISTEN to a CD)

Another thing, if one has enough experience recording - one already KNOWS most of the fundemental disclaimer parameters to be considered, anyway, so what's NOT to learn and enjoy?

I'm sure most people here have NOT done the work of either comparing ALL these mics back to back OR reviewing the work others HAVE done). There's just not enough time, fisrt of all, and it's a very specific task.

So THANK YOU AGAIN LYNN AND GANG FOR BRIGHTENING UP MY EARS AND BRAIN.

And, again, fellow GSs, thanks for all your feedback - you guys rock

I don't know if I can get through the LC CD for a bit , sh*t, I gotta go live my life!!!

[Sqye]

Originally Posted by u b i k

i'm not sure i fully agree with you gents. then again, i'm not sure i disagree either... i have to try a few pieces out, then i'll know.

your points are well taken, about different style, intent, room, and source. doubly so about not having been there. then again, i wasn't there for *any* of the recordings that live in my cd collection, but i'm always fascinated by, and learn things from, discussions/interviews with the people who did them.

but back to the cd's: i found thru blind listening on the pre cd that there were a handful of pre's that i loved on every source. specifically, the daking had me going "wow" every time it popped up, even though i didn't know what i was listening to at the time. same goes for the martech mss10.

i'm pretty sure that means something, and i'm pretty sure i know what it means: i gotta check out the daking and the martech in my space. i'm pretty sure i'll love them.

i'll let you know when those "pretty sure's" become certainty.


gregoire
del ubik

We'll be waiting - thanks for your feedback

[Lynn Fuston]

Originally Posted by C.Lambrechts

You will never know if the pre or the mic or whatever else is right for the job untill you actually try it.

Amen.

That bears repeating.

"You will never know if the pre or the mic or whatever else is right for the job untill you actually try it."

[Sqye]

Originally Posted by Lynn Fuston

Amen.

Wow, the man himself - I'm truly honored. Thanks for stopping by, and thank you for all of your wonderful work!! Truly an amazing task. I'm delighted.

A great supplemental way to challange one's ears.

Thanks, also, for the feedback, but I think we all know here that this is the case, and we'd be remiss if we didn't take this into consideration - it's ALL ABOUT THE EARS, after all.

Thanks, again for all the hard work and wonderfrul information you've provided to us on these cds .

[natpub]

That's wild! I have that AM-62 and don't care for it on most things, (maybe you'd like to buy it, lol). However, sometimes it may be just the right thing on certain singers or instruments, particularly ones needing hyped high freq presence.

[Sqye]

Originally Posted by natpub

That's wild! I have that AM-62 and don't care for it on most things, (maybe you'd like to buy it, lol). However, sometimes it may be just the right thing on certain singers or instruments, particularly ones needing hyped high freq presence.

You're point is well taken about hyping high frequencies, or adding a bit of energy to the source. These singers may both have needed a touch of that IMHO - just to be clear, I am NOT bashing these singers - I think they're both wonderful singers, I'm just used to recording more energetic, rhythmic and contemporary material.

But remember - this list only indicates that I picked the mic 4 times (more times than I picked other mics, and equally between male and female singers) for these singers and the source material in that particular space, yada, yada, not that it was my favorite. When I have time to look at all my more detailed notes, I'll be able to really say which mics got the rave reviews. I know the u47 was a treat for my ears, among others, including some of the mics listed here - but I'll have to thoroughly review the notes.

These are somewhat preliminary results, if you will.

Thanks for your offer, I may take you up on it - the only problem is that I know I won't be recording source material like the material on the test CD any time soon - so I don't know if that mic is the answer for me .

Thanks for the feedback.

[jnorman]

ha! - i listened to that 3D mic CD so many times, especially the female vox, that i convinced a flute/harp duo i was recording to do an instrumental version of "be thou my vision" on their CD (on "Distant Ayres" by RoseWynde).

[Tim Farrant]

Originally Posted by Sqye

Wow, the man himself - I'm truly honored....

And you should be. You know Lynn has been reading your threads, but has not responded until now. If you know you can do it better - then do it. If you need any assistance with the technical production or methodology, then contact my office, the hourly rate is $1000/hr. What is the projected release date of your sampler?

mmmmm...
Tim

[Sqye]

Originally Posted by Tim Farrant

And you should be. You know Lynn has been reading your threads, but has not responded until now. If you know you can do it better - then do it. If you need any assistance with the technical production or methodology, then contact my office, the hourly rate is $1000/hr. What is the projected release date of your sampler?

mmmmm...
Tim

Hey, Tim.

Thanks for responding.

My point in reviewing these CDs, was to indentify pres and mics that could handle high spls really well, and there's no REAL example of that anywhere on Lynn's CD - THAT'S ALL.

This is not an EGO thing - I'm not saying I'm BETTER, or I COULD DO ANYTHING BETTER, and I DON'T BELIEVE I EVER WROTE THAT ANYWHERE, this is purely research to accomplish a SPECIFIC GOAL that I've had specific preoblems with using many different mics and pres in many different studios.

Since I record a lot of urban and pop music - a mellow hymn, or carol sung at low to medium velocity into the mic doesn't give ME the information that I need, and doesn't address the problem at hand FOR ME. Maybe I'm the ONLY one who feels this way - and that's fine.

Now, as I've said, I've done enough recording in my life, that I can mostly guage what the mics and pres will do in my recording session context - so the CDs WERE very helpful and informative, but I feel like I still need more information.

As I am somewhat versed in matters of business, I wouldn't think of spending $1000/hr on a personal venture without having a clear business plan for marketing and distribution - if you notice I wrote that I am not COMMITTING to this yet - so there is no projected release date.

As far as facilities - there are a million high end facilites in NYC that I could get into for either free, or for a WAY cheaper price than $1,000/hr., so I think you're a bit out of my price range for a TESTING CD.

If you have ALREADY solved all of YOUR OWN questions and problems with mics and pres, have a gazillion dollars worth of gear lying around that you can use anytime, and you think that Lynn's cd is the be-all-end-all cd, by which all other test scenarios and equipment recordings should be judged, than you are entitled to your OPINION.

If you noticed, I have been VERY respectful and grateful to Lynn for his wonderful research and CD products, and I am in no way trying to offend anyone here. I realize that folks here are very serious about what they do, and I am one of them. I am merely trying to learn - not slam people and make sarcastic remarks about their work.

I realize that this is the high end area of GS, and that said, some folks here (like me) are exploring high end possibilites and potential, while others here may already have most of the answers that they feel they need.

While I am not Roger Nichols, by any stretch, I have very good ears, and I know what I like, and I know what I'm going for in this pearticular case. I apologize if I've offended anyone here who is above and beyond all of this, as this is not my intention. I just came here to try to get some more information, opinions about actual gear, and possibly make contact with people who have had different experiences than I have had. I think that's why WE ALL come here, mostly.

By the way, Tim, is there anything that you have to contribute to my questions or quieries regarding the actual cd material and recording/ testing results on either mics or pres? I'd appreciate it very much - I'm very interested in your perceptions - have you posted them on other forums?

Thanks for your posting and feedback, Tim.

[Sqye]

Originally Posted by jnorman

ha! - i listened to that 3D mic CD so many times, especially the female vox, that i convinced a flute/harp duo i was recording to do an instrumental version of "be thou my vision" on their CD (on "Distant Ayres" by RoseWynde).

Way to go - "One man's meat......"

Thanks for the posting.