Help me choose my first outboard bits for House/Club music

[mobius.media]

for a house club mix bus compressor make sure you get one with a sidechain input so you can pump it with the kick.

if you want that.

Originally Posted by sweetjesus

Will I really find outboard as significantly better in terms of sonic capabilities compared to their plugin counterparts as I imagine, or are we really talking about that final 5% of difference?

depends on you. plugin compression is to analog compression as softsynth is to analog synth.

some people say there's a huge difference, some say none, some like both.

[KRStudio]

Real outboard comps are a whole different game from plugs. I find them better for most of the stuff I do. Others find plugs better for what they do. For any House I want outboard. Please keep in mind that you will need really good AD/DA if you are bussing to/from your card.

[imixrecords]

The API is nice for many applications, as well as the Manley. I own and use them both for so many things! The GML 8200 EQ has worked well for me in the past.

[imixrecords]

Originally Posted by KRStudio

Please keep in mind that you will need really good AD/DA if you are bussing to/from your card.

AD/DA is really important once you start taking things in and out of the DAW. Super important! Good AD/DA is also pretty expensive, but it is as critical as the speakers one is listening to.

[kittonian]

There's nothing like the Hammer on vocals. I'm using one right now on a alt/rock mix and it sounds amazing. I'm now using my 1073s for guitars, drums, etc. and the Hammer is sitting on Lead and Backing vocal duties. Seriously incredible.

For summing I'd strongly suggest an SSL X-Rack instead of the 2-bus LT. Yes, I realize it's more expensive but you'll get a way better end result that will make a more massive impact on your mixes. The 2-Bus never really did an amazing job. It's more a subtle nuance rather than bringing something big to the table.

[dubrichie]

what DAW are you using?

what EQ and compressor plugs are you using in/on every mix?

what FX plugs are you using in every mix?

do your tracks have vocals?

what is/are the most important instruments/elements in your tunes that you intend to process with the outboard you will buy?

do you have your tracks mastered by someone else or do you DIY it?

the big, dirty question, how much have you got to spend?!

[sweetjesus]

Originally Posted by dubrichie

what DAW are you using?

I use Ableton Live (exclusively and happy about it)

Originally Posted by dubrichie

what EQ and compressor plugs are you using in/on every mix?

I use Sonnox EQ's most of the time, unless I want a little lo-fi colour which the Ableton EQ8 can provide me with.

For compression, I dont compress individual channels unless I am sidechaining them for pumping. I use Cytomic - The Glue for my compressor on drum and master buss. I find that on more spacious mixes it works a treat and I'll stick with it, but denser mixes, even though I create space for the kick, it becomes a struggle to keep the air and space in there.

Originally Posted by dubrichie

what FX plugs are you using in every mix?

I'm a pretty simple guy, mainly sticking to EQ, verb, compression and delays.

Originally Posted by dubrichie

do your tracks have vocals?

Sometimes yes, but not enough for me to justify buying expensive equipment for tracking. Im mainly going to be focusing on using studios for recording/tracking vox.

Originally Posted by dubrichie

what is/are the most important instruments/elements in your tunes that you intend to process with the outboard you will buy?

Mainly looking at buss processing. Drum buss and the master/2 buss.

Originally Posted by dubrichie

do you have your tracks mastered by someone else or do you DIY it?

I used to DIY but now someone masters for me. I do however stick a limiter at the end of my chain givin 1-3db of peak limiting so I have a closer idea of what the impact in the club after mastering will be like.

I often find myself using a multiband to tame the bigger mixes.

Originally Posted by dubrichie

the big, dirty question, how much have you got to spend?!

Ideally about 5000-6000 USD.


My AD/DA isn't amazing, it's an Echo Layla 3G and I'm hoping it will suffice for now, I'd much rather get the right fun toys and then save up for a decent Apoggee or something to that effect down the track.

[sweetjesus]

Originally Posted by imixrecords

The API is nice for many applications, as well as the Manley. I own and use them both for so many things! The GML 8200 EQ has worked well for me in the past.

hi mate,

are you using these units on electronic/club music ?

which do you find better for the 2buss in terms of keeping a right low end and a nice open top end?

[SighBorg]

If you want some SSL for house music I think you would be much happier with SSL channel comps than the quad comp. Quad comp is hit and miss depending on the track.

[KRStudio]

API or SSL buss comp and an Apogee 8 channel in and out and you are set ffor under $4000. Get the Apogee used. A new Lynx Auraura 8 would also be good.

[Ben F]

Hi,

I do a lot of electronic music as well (mixing and mastering). First of all I hate to say this but in my opinion the sound of Ableton Live isn't up to par with say Logic Pro or Pro tools. I generally bounce the tracks out of ableton and import into another DAW for mixing (such as Sequoia).

Next your AD/DA converters are very crucial if going to outboard, as others have said.

I don't think a summing mixer will make much of a difference- once again, it depends on your converters.

EQ wise I've never tried the Hammer. It depends if you want a clean or coloured sound. Same with the compressors- the ones you listed all sound very different.

For colour and drive- I'd highly recommend the Pheonix over the Manley vari-mu. It's a really lovely box for electronica- but make sure you get the side chain filter option. The Mpressor is excellent but very 'clean'. The API is nice but I wasn't that blown away with it, plenty of happy users here. Personally I really like Tube-Tech for any type of music.

It can be an endless merry go round with new gear options. It's best to find a studio with the gear you like and have a listen. It really comes down to personal taste. Or research people you like and check their gear out- lots of engineers I like have a similar kit list.

[sweetjesus]

Originally Posted by Ben F

For colour and drive- I'd highly recommend the Pheonix over the Manley vari-mu. It's a really lovely box for electronica- but make sure you get the side chain filter option. The Mpressor is excellent but very 'clean'. The API is nice but I wasn't that blown away with it, plenty of happy users here. Personally I really like Tube-Tech for any type of music.

Hi Ben,

Thanks for your advice earlier on, I look forward to checking out your studio.

I'd like to ask a few questions based on the above mentioned points you raised.

Is there any way of using the mpressor for colour?

Can the Phoneix do "clean" as well as add colour?

[dubrichie]

can you demo some stuff?

or even book a few hours in a studio that has some of the units that you are considering?

[Ben F]

Originally Posted by sweetjesus

Hi Ben,

Thanks for your advice earlier on, I look forward to checking out your studio.

I'd like to ask a few questions based on the above mentioned points you raised.

Is there any way of using the mpressor for colour?

Can the Phoneix do "clean" as well as add colour?

Hi,

I don't have an mpressor, but it's a VCA based design and on the clean side from the audio examples I've heard. Sounded very fast and snappy.

Yes the Phoenix can be clean or nasty depending on the input 'drive', which kind of shapes the aggression (or knee). It may be best to post your questions in the electronic music production forum.

[opposite.lock.]

I personally would buy hardware synths or maybe an all-round effects unit before i would buy processing gear. Reason being is that those would add more to your creativity and style than compressors or a summing mixer.

especially since your music is intended for a club and high spl where sonic quality isn't passed to the listener because of the environment.

[Delta Heavy]

Originally Posted by Ben F

Hi,

I don't have an mpressor, but it's a VCA based design and on the clean side from the audio examples I've heard. Sounded very fast and snappy.

Yes the Phoenix can be clean or nasty depending on the input 'drive', which kind of shapes the aggression (or knee). It may be best to post your questions in the electronic music production forum.

I have both, and Ben has pretty much summed it up.

Mpressor is clean, super fast and punchy. Can do some really cool stuff in mixing and sound design as well.

Phoenix is thick, deep and meaty with a subtle warmth. Definitely adds that final 10%. The SC filters are essential for dance music.

[Siem]

Originally Posted by sweetjesus

I use Ableton Live (exclusively and happy about it)

I also use Live often, you should try exporting the audio tracks from Live at 32 bits and sum in/from Logic/ Cubase /Pro Tools. It'll affect the sound in a positive way, maybe more than some of the hardware units you mentioned.

[michj]

I dont think anything gets better for house music than an ssl bus compressor, even the plugin from waves kicks serious ass. U might consider also a 2 1176 or a pair of 1176 to compress and pump the low end if u have the money

[Delta Heavy]

Originally Posted by michj

I dont think anything gets better for house music than an ssl bus compressor

maybe one day, there are better options now. see above.

[gundam]

You could also consider a Pendulum OCL-2 or ES-8.

[imixrecords]

Originally Posted by sweetjesus

hi mate,

are you using these units on electronic/club music ?

which do you find better for the 2buss in terms of keeping a right low end and a nice open top end?

Sure. Either one will work, it's just two flavors of the same thing. The API is a bit more in your face and sterile, while the Manley, being tube, is a bit rounder. depends on what your going for.

If i had to choose i guess the API would be better for slamming club rekids.

but the mix is what will really determine the the "right low end and a nice open top end" not any particular piece of gear.

Just my opinion, disregard at will.

[imixrecords]

Originally Posted by gundam

You could also consider a Pendulum OCL-2 or ES-8.

I freakin love those comps!

[robot gigante]

Vari-Mu isn't that bad for house. 3-6db of GR on the meters in limit mode and it goes splat splat splat, very nice, EQ some bass back in, done. OTOH, the one I was using was an old one and it didn't need service for a long long time, but when it finally did, it came back poorly calibrated and went down twice after that... I'm not super confident in Manley's service any more, eventually it got sold.

Pete's Place BAC-500 is great for thick low end, though not a bus compressor.

Smart C2 is always a classic, might push the upper mids up more than you'd like, or maybe not, depends on what you like and how you mix.

You might look at a couple sidechainable lower cost compressors if you like to do ducking tricks... my personal faves are dbx 160xt's but since they jumped in price after all the internet hype I might look at something else. In any case plugins fail compared to hardware for that kind of technique IMHO.

Also a cheapo comp or two are nice to have around to use as distortion boxes.

[michj]

wondering if anybody had any experience with the portico on house, they seem a great deal for the the price, and i have tried them on drums and sound awesome. But maybe they are a little slow for dance though?