Your drum overhead recording style

[jaakkol]

What´s your favorite overhead miking style & which mics? Whole kit vs. just cymbals?
I often end up having more hihat than I´d like in my OH´s. Does anyone feel the same?


cheers,
Jaakko

[narcoman]

any method that avoids cymbals as much as possible !!

[la grange]

I bought myself lots of cymbals and HH a year ago and it was the best move I did for a long time.
Now the drummer can pick and chose in my range and, if he brakes any, he has to replace it.
Amazing instant results....

Oli

[la grange]

seriously, depends on music style.
The decay of crashes, the pitch and loudness of the HH are all things that contributes to important choices to make.
I would tend to think that if the HH is to dominant in your OH mix, it is either the HH, the drummer, or the mic position to high.
I do like high OH but it requires the right drummer with the right gear.
And it doesn't happen that often.
I spot mic the ride when this happens cause I know I will have to be subtle with the OH. And they now become the middle man between the close Mics and the room mics.
It seems to work for me as I think to it now but next drummer to come in will send me back to my drawing board again.
It is someone I don't know arriving on monday...
Lets enjoy a nice week end off...

Oli

[Drumsound]

I've been loving the spread and tone of ORTF overheads for about a year or so.

[ryancork]

spaced ORTF or NOS as some people refer to it, has been working greatly for me. This week I have a session that I'm finally going to get to try out the recorderman technique. I also changed my HH's to 15" New Beats and my life is so much better now!

[Drumsound]

Originally Posted by ryancork

spaced ORTF has been working greatly for me. This week I have a session that I'm finally going to get to try out the recorderman technique. I also changed my HH's to 15 New Beats and my life is so much better now!

I've got some light 15s from the 70s that are super cool and NOT ver loud. The blend is much better.

[bitman]

I use a Rode Nt4 X/Y over the center of the kit.

[Slikjmuzik]

I've been enjoying a LDC spaced pair placed outside the drumset but close to the ride and main crash sort of aimed at each one. If there are multiple crashes, which does happen, I'll slightly change the aim of the LDC's to sort of generally grab a happy medium of all. Overtop in the middle I've been using an AEA R92 ribbon aimed at the first rack tom, so 3 overheads total for me. I've also been using 2 CAD M179's in the room about 10ft back amd abpit 8-12 inches apart panned hard left and right going into 2 Seventh Circle Audio N72's then being treated with stereo 1176's with all 4 buttons in. Not necessarily crushed though, just enough for effect but so that the kit can breath and elude to having a lot of power. Been getting great results like this.

[greyskull]

Spaced pair at the edge of the cymbals

[joeq]

spaced pair
usually 'hovering' over the toms
and the old measuring string keeping them equidistant from the snare.

I have had some good results recently with a single overhead directly above the snare

[andersmv]

Originally Posted by bitman

I use a Rode Nt4 X/Y over the center of the kit.

[packagebear]

for my bands and similar style(hardcore metal)

ORTF behind the drummers head about 6-7 up from the floor pointed downward around 45 degrees. I usually use them mainly for cymbals and the attack of the toms and a good chunk of snare.

usually use NT3's.. pref SDC mics for this style of music.

[slipperman]

You name it. Both in mic choice(s)/placement(s) and "capture approach".

Totally dependent on the drummers technique, his approach/role in the music and the manner in which he addresses the kit he sits behind.

I don't think there is any single facet of recording I lose more sleep over both in tracking and mix.

Unless the drummer is a stellar MUSICIAN(as opposed to the more common great player-technicians)... then it's almost always a complete breeze, and almost ANYTHING will simply be a happy and relatively effortless case of "pick yer poison(s)".

Go figure.

Best regards,

SM.

[balanceman]

point the mic at what you want to hear. listen to it. if there is too much stuff you don't want, move the mic away from that stuff.

i have been moving closer and closer to the ride and crash over the years.
been trying to avoid a hh mic, but sometimes it's needed.

sdc mics; km 140s, km84s, akg 451s . .
peluso p12 tube mics.
mono bock 151
my favorite lately: beyer mc740 ldc mics - fast! fast! fast!

[NathanEldred]

I like spaced pair. Usually they are set in from the hats and ride as much as possible since those two cut more than not.

[mappee]

I've tried so many techniques and this one has merit for R&B. 1 OH LDC hi over middle of kit and all else close mic'ed. Except the hihats which I let bleed as they see fit but won't mic at all. Kik and Sn hair off center pan and tom's panned for a bit of width. If all goes right I get a nice stereo image as the tom mics favor the cymbal's close to them. The overhead mic is then used to keep the cymbal brillance and attack but also carries some useful drum tone. A light touch of short verb and I'll be cocky enough to bounce it all to 2 tracks.
I should spend more time on this method and perfect it, but then i'm always trying other ideas.

[kats]

I was looking at pictures of U2's set up at Olympic and it seemed quite similar. The difference was that the OH was not very high up.

[waxx]

recordman technique for studio, a/b for live. Sometimes i also use M/S for studio if i want a more mono sound for the overheads.

for recordman i like to use the typical Neumann KM84 style mics (in my case mostly modded Oktava MK012's) or Gefell M295's. For live a AKG C451 is often best, for M/S a good ribbon (Beyer M130) in combinatino with an non tube LDC (AKG C414/Gefell UMT70S/...) is the way to go for me.

but you need to get the right drummer and room for perfect scenario's. If you work in all kind of setups/bands (from low end to hi end) like i do, you often got to adjust to bad rooms/bad drummers and search for the best way, and that is sometimes something completly different. i did also do once overheads with 57's in because that did sound the best in that crap (rehearsal) room where i was recording a local band.

[RKrizman]

I used recorderman last time, but added a close 57 on the snare. Then I was getting too much snare to hihat, and not enough toms, so I had to modify it a bit (slightly changing where the mics were pointing). Ended up sounding great--especially since I was using a drummer who understood dynamics and balance, and who played the whole kit like it was a single musical instrument.

In other scenarios, I would close mic everything and do a spaced pair or wide ORTF overhead, favoring the cymbals.

-R

[Jason Poulin]

Originally Posted by narcoman

any method that avoids cymbals as much as possible !!

then how do you record your cymbals?

[fakiekid]

spaced pair, 414xls' in cardioid, slightly angled over to get a better hole in the centre of the OH's. Depending on drummer/cymbal setup, a HH and Ride mic will pop out.

[Brad McGowan]

My approach has always been to use my overheads to capture a natural balance and image of the entire kit. In the past it was a single Royer SF12 directly over the snare about 6 ft. off the ground. I would typically pull out some honk at 500Hz and then shelf boost above 5kHz.

Now I'm doing a mono overhead using a tube condenser above the floor tom aiming at the snare and rack tom.

Lately I've been really trying to minimize the number of mics while maximizing the results, especially since I'm taking a long hiatus from big rock productions and instead working within the limitations of 1" 8-track tape. My goal is to get down to just a kick and one overhead.

Brad

[juanpz]

Can't believe no one has mentioned the Glyn Johns Technique yet.
I sure enjoy it for light jazz and blues.

Just got the M179 and can't wait to use it on the FLR Tom side

However I have had reasonable luck using 451b

[A LaMere]

Originally Posted by joeq

spaced pair
usually 'hovering' over the toms
and the old measuring string keeping them equidistant from the snare.

I have had some good results recently with a single overhead directly above the snare

ditto... this is pretty much exactly what I'm doing currently.

I also bought my own hats for others to use when necessary.
They're VERY quiet hi-hats and probably wouldn't work for most drummers in a live situation.. but they record perfectly.

I've also learned recently that I'll probably have to buy my own ride...
those are the two elements that I always feel are too loud in my own drum recordings.

[DirkB]

Depends on a lot of things:
- how hard does the drummer hit the cymbals compared to the drums?
- how loud are the cymbals (not the same as above!)
- do I feel wide crashes are going to enhance the music?
- am I going for a mono room sound?
- do I want to catch the entire kit or mostly the cymbals?

I agree with Slipperman: I can keep my brain occupied quite a bit thinking of what scenario of overhead placement and how it will effect everything else.

These days (i.e. the band I am working with now) I tend to like the total drumssound a little narrower. I tracked the overheads last week in ORTF and already think I should have opted for x/y because of the heavy compression on the drums I will be using (including a mono room) and the fact that it is still a bit too wide for my taste. Which means I probably be panning the overheads a little inwards which is not something I like doing ....

Another subject all by itself: how do you mix the overheads? Lot's of/no eq/compression/FX/relative volume compared to rest...

Regards,
Dirk

[lowfreq33]

I tend to do spaced pair, and I notice I've been moving the mics more towards the front of the kit these days.

If I do x/y I usually exaggerate the angle a bit, more 110 degrees rather than 90. Tends to get a wider image, but still sums to mono nicely. When doing this I usually have a FOK/room mic up for options in the mix.

And I rarely use sdc's. LDC's for me just tend to work better.

[Ramchandra]

I know this thread died awhile ago but I was wondering if you guys had any pictures and or tips for putting LDCs in ORTF or X/Y.

I feel lame... I can get SDCs in ORTF, but can't figure out the best way to get LDCs in the configuration.

Thanks

Cade

[tapehiss]

i usually use 3 451eb's, two overheads, one snare, and the typical close mics.



however, i found cymbals to be very important, so i have invested into:

-two pairs of hihats, 15'' smooth vintage avedis, and 14'' dave weckl sabians

-two rides - 21'' vintage avedis big bell, and A custom 20'' flat top (no bell)

- all the crash cymbals are k custom zildjian hybrid cymbals which have a warm tone for cymbals and never sound harsh, they seep through the mix instead of cuttin through. (half hand hammered, and half lathe treatment

[JulianFernandez]

n00b question: How do you deal with phase issues when using the spaced pair method?