Older GML 8200 vs New 8200

SK1 · 1st July 2009

Hello People,

Ok, so the GML 8200 has been around for quite a while (1980s ??). What are the differences between the older versions and the new ones. Are the rack units and the power supply the same or have there been "upgrades".

Also, I'd like to hear from somebody that has had experience with both or even worked with an old one and newer one side by side. What were your impressions?

Surely, there must be some components that became unavailable during the time that Massenburg has been putting these out?

Fletcher · 1st July 2009

They've been around since 1982, the pre has been around since 1983... compressor since '89.

There are some that swear that the ones with the metal toggle switches sound better... personally I don't hear it but they do make the claim. I would think a new one would be better as it has all new components and not 20-25+ yr. old components but that could just be me... I mean it's common knowledge here on GS that "older is better"... right?

SK1 · 1st July 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fletcher

They've been around since 1982, the pre has been around since 1983... compressor since '89.

There are some that swear that the ones with the metal toggle switches sound better... personally I don't hear it but they do make the claim. I would think a new one would be better as it has all new components and not 20-25+ yr. old components but that could just be me... I mean it's common knowledge here on GS that "older is better"... right?

Well, in my case ..... older is cheaper ..... or used is cheaper.

Say I pick up one from the 80's ..... what kind of maintance should I expect ..... would the new power supplies be an upgrade or are they essentially the same.

Be honest .... hahahahaha

SK1 · 1st July 2009

Well, um ..... found a thread that didn't show up when I first searched :

Differences between GML 8200 MKI/II?

So there's model 1 and a model 2.

What could be expected maintenance wise if I picked up an older one?

Zuewi · 1st July 2009

I've read that someone picked up an older unit here at gearslutz some months ago and it wasn't working that good anymore.
I'm happy that i got a new one what works as it should!
i think that the old one hasn't the middlebuttons, where u can mute the equalization what is a very good feature.

SK1 · 6th July 2009

Bump.

Someone must have serviced an older GML 8200. I know the API eqs may need some new op amps and to be recapped ........ are the GMLs similar ? Are the op amps something that is easy to pop in like API ?? Do they have op amps ?? Ever have one recapped ?

Give me all you got on the 8200 please.

SK1 · 8th July 2009

Zuewi · 8th July 2009

Best thing is to ask at the GML page if they can handle you service parts and give you some instructions.
George Massenburg Labs
Also manuals are downloadable if you need it.

SK1 · 26th July 2009

Hard to believe that no one on gearslutz has serviced a GML 8200.

Maybe they're that reliable after 20+ years.

1radicalron · 26th July 2009

I have owned and used a 8200 EQ, and 8302 Mic Pre for way more than 10 years. They both run off the same power supply. I use them almost daily. = Never had a problem, and they sound as great as they did the same day I got them.

PMoshay · 26th July 2009

mine have been good since the late 80's.
Turn them off when you are not using them, as with any gear.

Heat is the enemy, it will degrade anything over time.

Also Time is the enemy ........ but there is no on/off switch.

SK1 · 10th August 2009

Hey guys,

Scored one a few days ago, so it should be here later this week!! It's a newer model, no metal toggles,(used) with the bypass and all that. I'm super excited. Dude said it was an 11 out of 10 cosmetically and functionally so I have high expectations.

Thanks for the input!

SK1 · 4th September 2009

Well, the 8200 showed up and looked perfect. Seriously, the thing must have never been racked ........

However, the right ch light didn't come on and the right eq didn't engage !!! Guess I messed up ...... NOT ...... just a simple wiring issue I guess.

GML has a $75 hr fee with a two hour minimum bench charge. Dude from ebay is picking it up, along with the shipping and even if he didn't I'm still saving around $2000.

Some GML pres might be on the horizon

haikusoftruth · 4th September 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by SK1

Hard to believe that no one on gearslutz has serviced a GML 8200.

Maybe they're that reliable after 20+ years.

I called GML
asked them when to service mine?
"when it doesn't work!"

DONNX · 22nd July 2010

Old vs. New? I got the old. Never heard the new. So, I would love to hear someone's opinion on both of these.

Well from what I was told..., besides the cosmetics. The opamps are different with the old vs. new. Different brands of pots were used over the 8200's life span.

The metal switch employed separate in/out buffer cards for each channel, each with its own local regulation and power filtering. (alot more work, labor and cards than the newer model). The newer push button has only a two-channel buffer card.

Hope that helps.

alexstringer · 22nd July 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by SK1

Hard to believe that no one on gearslutz has serviced a GML 8200.

Maybe they're that reliable after 20+ years.

One of the most reliable eq i've used.
I emailed Massemburg once about maintenance and he told me that 8200 don't need recalibration.

andyfreeman · 22nd July 2010

I got an old metal-toggle one last year. Pots were scratchy, but we all know that's an easy "fix".

It's performed very well for us. No issues whatsoever, though it does get rather hot. We left a space open above for heat.

Congrats on a SERIOUS EQ tool!

-A

gml · 24th July 2010

gentle men and women of Gearslutz,

here's the history of the 8200.

in the early 80's Ron Pendragon and i built a 5-band stereo EQ based largely on the EQ design of the GML/Nova boards at the Complex and on the road with Nova Sound (touring sound reinforcement co). this basic parametric eq design has changed a bit since the first ITI in 1971, and some of the changes have been substantive.

for instance, in the Sontec EQ design of 1976 or so i dropped the inductor that was used in the low-frequency shelf, redesigned the discrete op-amp (the first of the blindingly fast FET-input designs) AND implemented a terse, three-transistor inverter in the single-stage peak filter.

but since 1982, after we re-focused our product to better embrace reliability (the Sontec stuff is not reliable in any sense of the word), we settled on a design that is more or less unchanged since then. the differences (aside from having to change componentry as parts went obsolete - which happens more often than you'd like) are: 1> replacing the toggle switch and led indicator with an integrated led-illuminated pushbutton & 2> replacing the 5534 inverter in the peak filter with another GML 8802 discrete op-amp. the latter change made the performance of the unit more consistent; lowered the noise floor; and improved headroom, HF distortion and stability margin. it was and is the expensive way to go, but given a level-playing-field (more about this later), i think one would likely choose it on the basis of the more transparent sound.

we still service everything we've ever built (save GML Automation, with enough sub-assemblies which themselves have gone obsolete, which we no longer support).

George

tubeaudiofan · 24th July 2010

Got to repost this [I posted it to another thread awhile back]:

Reminds me of a time about 15 years ago when I had just bought a GML EQ and a SSL Comp...the i/o switch on the SSL was not lighting, and I called SSL, and was informed that there was a $25.00 minimum order for parts [we are talking about a .50 cent light bulb], I then asked if I could buy a set of schematics for the extra $$, they said NO, and I vowed not to give them any more $$$,[and then realized they were the same as a box of Studer A80 bulbs I had...]

So next I was missing a knob/collet cap cover [colored] on the GML, and called and asked to buy one, and they asked which one [which color], said they would check on it, and it appeared 2 days later, [Fed Ex], no charge for the knob cap or shipping... and the GML was USED!!! Needless to say customer for life...

George has always made great stuff, and stood behind it...and he was really helpful and freely shared tips/knowledge when he came and made a record here in 1981-'82 [Champaign], and I was working the graveyard shift after him...He said feel free to try my toys out, just re-set them for me for tomorrow. NICE! He was also the first person to explain to me why it was important to use 20K [@30 ips] to set up the 24 track...and he made a fellow engineer [Rich D. his 2nd here in IL] check it every day, even though it almost never changed...

Manufacturers that truly support their gear [and don't charge for stupid questions- which many of mine often seem to be...] are the ONLY people I want to do biz with...

See- Not everyone b*tches on gear slutz...

1st July 2009	#1
SK1 Lives for gear Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 1,142 Thread Starter	Older GML 8200 vs New 8200 Hello People, Ok, so the GML 8200 has been around for quite a while (1980s ??). What are the differences between the older versions and the new ones. Are the rack units and the power supply the same or have there been "upgrades". Also, I'd like to hear from somebody that has had experience with both or even worked with an old one and newer one side by side. What were your impressions? Surely, there must be some components that became unavailable during the time that Massenburg has been putting these out? __________________ -"Stick and move"

1st July 2009	#2
Fletcher member no 666 Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Durham, NC Posts: 9,464	They've been around since 1982, the pre has been around since 1983... compressor since '89. There are some that swear that the ones with the metal toggle switches sound better... personally I don't hear it but they do make the claim. I would think a new one would be better as it has all new components and not 20-25+ yr. old components but that could just be me... I mean it's common knowledge here on GS that "older is better"... right? __________________ CN Fletcher Professional Affiliations: R/E/P Professional Recording Engineer and Producer forums - serious hobbyists welcome TELEFUNKEN Elektroakustik SoundPure.com mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33 We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid Roscoe Ambel once said: Pro-Tools is to audio what fluorescent is to light

26th July 2009	#10
1radicalron Gear nut Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 103	GML I have owned and used a 8200 EQ, and 8302 Mic Pre for way more than 10 years. They both run off the same power supply. I use them almost daily. = Never had a problem, and they sound as great as they did the same day I got them.

26th July 2009	#11
PMoshay Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: NY Posts: 988	mine have been good since the late 80's. Turn them off when you are not using them, as with any gear. Heat is the enemy, it will degrade anything over time. Also Time is the enemy ........ but there is no on/off switch. __________________ www.PeterMoshay.com www.LiveFromDarylsHouse.com

22nd July 2010	#15
DONNX Lives for gear Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: United States Posts: 5,347	Old vs. New? I got the old. Never heard the new. So, I would love to hear someone's opinion on both of these. Well from what I was told..., besides the cosmetics. The opamps are different with the old vs. new. Different brands of pots were used over the 8200's life span. The metal switch employed separate in/out buffer cards for each channel, each with its own local regulation and power filtering. (alot more work, labor and cards than the newer model). The newer push button has only a two-channel buffer card. Hope that helps. __________________ DN

1st July 2009	#5
Zuewi Gear addict Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Austria Posts: 480	I've read that someone picked up an older unit here at gearslutz some months ago and it wasn't working that good anymore. I'm happy that i got a new one what works as it should! i think that the old one hasn't the middlebuttons, where u can mute the equalization what is a very good feature.

6th July 2009	#6
SK1 Lives for gear Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 1,142 Thread Starter	Bump. Someone must have serviced an older GML 8200. I know the API eqs may need some new op amps and to be recapped ........ are the GMLs similar ? Are the op amps something that is easy to pop in like API ?? Do they have op amps ?? Ever have one recapped ? Give me all you got on the 8200 please.

8th July 2009	#7
SK1 Lives for gear Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 1,142 Thread Starter

10th August 2009	#12
SK1 Lives for gear Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 1,142 Thread Starter	Hey guys, Scored one a few days ago, so it should be here later this week!! It's a newer model, no metal toggles,(used) with the bypass and all that. I'm super excited. Dude said it was an 11 out of 10 cosmetically and functionally so I have high expectations. Thanks for the input!

4th September 2009	#13
SK1 Lives for gear Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 1,142 Thread Starter	Well, the 8200 showed up and looked perfect. Seriously, the thing must have never been racked ........ However, the right ch light didn't come on and the right eq didn't engage !!! Guess I messed up ...... NOT ...... just a simple wiring issue I guess. GML has a $75 hr fee with a two hour minimum bench charge. Dude from ebay is picking it up, along with the shipping and even if he didn't I'm still saving around $2000. Some GML pres might be on the horizon

22nd July 2010	#17
andyfreeman Gear maniac Join Date: May 2010 Location: San Francisco Posts: 159	I got an old metal-toggle one last year. Pots were scratchy, but we all know that's an easy "fix". It's performed very well for us. No issues whatsoever, though it does get rather hot. We left a space open above for heat. Congrats on a SERIOUS EQ tool! -A __________________ ••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• Recording Eisley's 2011 EP in a house For a good time, follow @andyrecordsyou Record On Location

24th July 2010	#18
gml Gear nut Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada Posts: 92	new vs old gentle men and women of Gearslutz, here's the history of the 8200. in the early 80's Ron Pendragon and i built a 5-band stereo EQ based largely on the EQ design of the GML/Nova boards at the Complex and on the road with Nova Sound (touring sound reinforcement co). this basic parametric eq design has changed a bit since the first ITI in 1971, and some of the changes have been substantive. for instance, in the Sontec EQ design of 1976 or so i dropped the inductor that was used in the low-frequency shelf, redesigned the discrete op-amp (the first of the blindingly fast FET-input designs) AND implemented a terse, three-transistor inverter in the single-stage peak filter. but since 1982, after we re-focused our product to better embrace reliability (the Sontec stuff is not reliable in any sense of the word), we settled on a design that is more or less unchanged since then. the differences (aside from having to change componentry as parts went obsolete - which happens more often than you'd like) are: 1> replacing the toggle switch and led indicator with an integrated led-illuminated pushbutton & 2> replacing the 5534 inverter in the peak filter with another GML 8802 discrete op-amp. the latter change made the performance of the unit more consistent; lowered the noise floor; and improved headroom, HF distortion and stability margin. it was and is the expensive way to go, but given a level-playing-field (more about this later), i think one would likely choose it on the basis of the more transparent sound. we still service everything we've ever built (save GML Automation, with enough sub-assemblies which themselves have gone obsolete, which we no longer support). George

24th July 2010	#19
tubeaudiofan Gear maniac Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: The Muddled West Posts: 163	Got to repost this [I posted it to another thread awhile back]: Reminds me of a time about 15 years ago when I had just bought a GML EQ and a SSL Comp...the i/o switch on the SSL was not lighting, and I called SSL, and was informed that there was a $25.00 minimum order for parts [we are talking about a .50 cent light bulb], I then asked if I could buy a set of schematics for the extra $$, they said NO, and I vowed not to give them any more $$$,[and then realized they were the same as a box of Studer A80 bulbs I had...] So next I was missing a knob/collet cap cover [colored] on the GML, and called and asked to buy one, and they asked which one [which color], said they would check on it, and it appeared 2 days later, [Fed Ex], no charge for the knob cap or shipping... and the GML was USED!!! Needless to say customer for life... George has always made great stuff, and stood behind it...and he was really helpful and freely shared tips/knowledge when he came and made a record here in 1981-'82 [Champaign], and I was working the graveyard shift after him...He said feel free to try my toys out, just re-set them for me for tomorrow. NICE! He was also the first person to explain to me why it was important to use 20K [@30 ips] to set up the 24 track...and he made a fellow engineer [Rich D. his 2nd here in IL] check it every day, even though it almost never changed... Manufacturers that truly support their gear [and don't charge for stupid questions- which many of mine often seem to be...] are the ONLY people I want to do biz with... See- Not everyone b*tches on gear slutz...

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