Api 1608: the only console in the world that don't work with Tonelux Shadow Mix

[api1608]

Hello,
One year ago i bought a 32 Channel Api 1608.
This is an awesome console with a fantastic sound.
I have carefully tested all desks in 100k budget and 1608 is the only, with neve 5088, wunderbar and daking 1112 that absolutely match, about sound, the large consoles.
But when i bought 1608 i gave credit to a "specification" that again is on the api site: " Future Vision Automation"
That said, yesterday i emailed to Larry Droppa to ask about introduction of this automation, and he answered this:
"there are no plans to provide automation for the 1608. We
don't have the manpower nor the $ necessary to design such a system."
So i emailed to Paul Wolff , Tonelux chief, about Shadow mix automation system, and he informed me that Shadow mix is not compatible with 1608.
Now, i read on GS that Shadow Mix works with almost all consoles, current and vintage, but not with 1608.
Why?!?
With automation Api 1608, for me, have not competitors, only 5088 in the same league, but api has a better time value.
So not only Api don't realize what he proclames in the specification, but even obstructs possibility to add automation from third part!!!
I am sure that with automation, a prerogative so much important today, api 1608 could be a best-seller.
Instead now i seriously consider possibility to change, may be 5088 that match Shadow mix Automation.
I am so blasted..

[Tony Shepperd]

Why not use Flying Faders?
Martinsound | Flying Faders 2 PR Images

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd

Why not use Flying Faders?
Martinsound | Flying Faders 2 PR Images

Lipstick on a pig maybe?

32 channels of Flying faders plus 8 group busses is almost the price of one 1608 alone.

I am surprised the dealer didn't mention the automation thing. I know last year when i checked out the 1608 the dealer was totally upfront about API stance on it.

[api1608]

Thank Tony andthrill for replay
Ok, api have not intention to make automation.
But you also know that he obstructs third part automation?
Vintage king has in api 1608 page, link to Shadow mix, so i was sure that also without api automation, i could go on shadow mix.
But now only way is Flying faders, yes, about 45k for 32 channel
I am too angry..
What do you suggest?
What do you prefer about this range of consoles?

[drBill]

Originally Posted by api1608

What do you suggest?
What do you prefer about this range of consoles?

I'll tell you right now, I do NOT like ANY 3rd party automation on a console. With the possible exception of Martinsound FF. Too much $#!@ to go wrong. Too much finger pointing. Automation is tweaky enough without joining two different companies. That's just my opinion though, but history is replete with all kinds of kludged nightmares....

[Marcocet]

That is kind of a bummer. Did they explain exactly why shadowmix won't work? is it a size issue? I mean, I've opened up that desk and there are just faders with a whole bunch of space under them. If you have to replace the metal plates that shouldn't be more expensive than 200-300 bucks.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by api1608

Thank Tony andthrill for replay
Ok, api have not intention to make automation.
But you also know that he obstructs third part automation?
Vintage king has in api 1608 page, link to Shadow mix, so i was sure that also without api automation, i could go on shadow mix.
But now only way is Flying faders, yes, about 45k for 32 channel
I am too angry..
What do you suggest?
What do you prefer about this range of consoles?

Look for a used moving fader automation system. They come up for sale quite often.

In the old days Martinsound would let you lease the Flying Fader system but i am not sure how its working these days or if its even financially worth it.

[Tony Shepperd]

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

Lipstick on a pig maybe?

32 channels of Flying faders plus 8 group busses is almost the price of one 1608 alone.

I am surprised the dealer didn't mention the automation thing. I know last year when i checked out the 1608 the dealer was totally upfront about API stance on it.

I thought Flying Faders were now about $5k for every 8.
You could do 32 fader console for about $20,000.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd

I thought Flying Faders were now about $5k for every 8.
You could do the console for about $20,000.

If it is that's news to me.

But i haven't seriously looked into one for a couple of years and lately only checking out the Flying Fader II for a client who has an 8068.

[api1608]

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

Look for a used moving fader automation system. They come up for sale quite often.

it.

Thank!
Are There sites that you can suggest me?

[api1608]

Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd

I thought Flying Faders were now about $5k for every 8.
You could do 32 fader console for about $20,000.

Wow!!
If so i buy it at once!!

[Tony Shepperd]

Originally Posted by api1608

Wow!!
If so i buy it at once!!

You should at least call Martinsound first thing on Wednesday and get a quote.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by api1608

Thank!
Are There sites that you can suggest me?

Put a request that you are looking for one in the classifieds. All of the used gear pimps check it out frequently.

[api1608]

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

Put a request that you are looking for one in the classifieds. All of the used gear pimps check it out frequently.

Thank

[api1608]

Anyway i hope somebody of Api (and Tonelux, ) can here explain reason of this "arcanum"
After spending 80k is annoying listen " we have not powerman nor $ to make automation"

[SK1]

That would be annoying.

I was skeptical the first time I read "future vision automation" on the board and the API site. It would be nice to get a system that you could grow into without having compatibility issues with automation .... or anything else. I have thought of getting an unloaded 1608 and loading the EQs and Comps I already have ..... this just adds to the list of reasons that I hesitate to do so.

There was a thread where Roundbdge had spoke of putting the tonelux automation into a 1608. I think he even said something about modding the busses to 8 faders instead of the rotary deal. Maybe he can weigh in.

[GYang]

Originally Posted by api1608

With automation Api 1608, for me, have not competitors, only 5088 in the same league, but api has a better time value.

It's not time value what drove your decision I hope.

In my comparisons 5088 offered preferred sonics vs. API to my ears. (I don't track through console what might be crucial advantage for API lovers who do it).

All systems I've tried with Shadow Mix worked like butter, with no real competition in absolute qualty of sound (no existence of degradation theoretically or practically).

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by GYang

All systems I've tried with Shadow Mix worked like butter, with no real competition in absolute qualty of sound (no existence of degradation theoretically or practically).

But it is limited to 32 tracks with a ProTools system which is what most people use.

Flying Faders is the easiest to learn, most elegant and great sounding of the older automation systems. Too bad you could not use it on an SSL console.

[raal]

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

But it is limited to 32 tracks with a ProTools system which is what most people use.

Josh at RND told me you can get a cheap laptop, install any DAW of choice and run SM faders from that, even if you're on PT.

that could be an option if you need more than 32 faders. the thing i like about Shadowmix is it reads and writes protools, and i think it's the only analog automation system now that does that, no? martinsound has been talking about releasing a PT friendly system but it's been years and no tamales.

to get back on topic, my impression is API is selling their share of 1608s without offering automation, so they're probably not too motivated to make that move for now at least.

[RoundBadge]

Originally Posted by api1608

So i emailed to Paul Wolff , Tonelux chief, about Shadow mix automation system, and he informed me that Shadow mix is not compatible with 1608.
Now, i read on GS that Shadow Mix works with almost all consoles, current and vintage, but not with 1608.
Why?!?

Wow.Did you ask Paul for the technical specifics?
Shadowmix is the way to go.
I have a 24 in Tonelux rig and I want the faders.it's a great system.
but no 1608?..bummer
New FF's are waay expensive and finding used working rigs ain't no fun.I've done it for an old 3288 API

[The MPCist]

Man, that sucks to hear that API isn't going to offer any automation option. They should! Or at least let people know that ahead of time before buying it.......

[dandeurloo]

lately I've only heard weird things about API customer service. I have a friend who owns a huge Legacy. Almost right away his switches started to fail and API didn't take care of them. You would think if you drop that kind of cash on a desk they would warranty it for 5 years or so. I guess they are switching gears towards 500 series stuff and not the big console market.

[Marcocet]

I have a 32 channel 1608 and have had really good relations with their customer service. At the very beginning (right when the 1608 was released) it was hard to get a hold of them, but recently they've been amazing. True, switches and op amps have gone bad but that's what happens when you use a console every day. They've sent me replacements immediately when I asked, and helped me out with the faders and wiring harnesses to change the aux return section over from rotary.

I was hoping to one day possibly add automation, so if anyone could figure out WHY shadowmix won't work I would be very appreciative.

[Sounds Great]

Originally Posted by dandeurloo

lately I've only heard weird things about API customer service. I have a friend who owns a huge Legacy. Almost right away his switches started to fail and API didn't take care of them. You would think if you drop that kind of cash on a desk they would warranty it for 5 years or so. I guess they are switching gears towards 500 series stuff and not the big console market.

I've seen that board. I didn't know about problems with it.

Sure is one great looking desk, though.

[SK1]

Originally Posted by Marcocet

I have a 32 channel 1608 and have had really good relations with their customer service. At the very beginning (right when the 1608 was released) it was hard to get a hold of them, but recently they've been amazing. True, switches and op amps have gone bad but that's what happens when you use a console every day. They've sent me replacements immediately when I asked, and helped me out with the faders and wiring harnesses to change the aux return section over from rotary.

I was hoping to one day possibly add automation, so if anyone could figure out WHY shadowmix won't work I would be very appreciative.

How much did it cost you to switch to faders for the aux returns?

[Marcocet]

I can't remember specifically but it was only a couple hundred bucks. Well worth it for my workflow, and if I get around to buying 8 more EQs then I essentially have a 40 channel board.

[glissando]

This is a small console with a very big sound...You can't get everything you want...if you want large format with automation, buy a legacy....the 1608 is what it is....and it is a great "little" console...also using the automation in your DAW with a few human moves should be just fine don't you think?

[robmix]

What about looking for an old GML system ? All the "old" guys dig it. . . .

I've used FF II and it will (at some point) read/write HUI data. Martinsound used to own another inexpensive moving fader system (for their Neoteks, Audiomate). Maybe they'll revive it to compete with Shadowmix and fill in this gap. Use FF systems do appear every now and again, so be patient.

[RoundBadge]

Originally Posted by tekis

I've used FF II and it will (at some point) read/write HUI data. Martinsound used to own another inexpensive moving fader system (for their Neoteks, Audiomate). Maybe they'll revive it to compete with Shadowmix and fill in this gap. Use FF systems do appear every now and again, so be patient.

Honestly it'd be cheaper to just sell the API,get the RNC console and go w/ shadowmix