Api 1608: the only console in the world that don't work with Tonelux Shadow Mix

[api1608]

Originally Posted by lildrummerboy70

I spoke to a client of mine a few days ago who is considering a 32 channel 1608. He told me that API said that automation for the 1608 will be ready in the next couple of months. The fact that they said that means something hopefully. I would hope they wouldn't say it just to get him to buy the console.

I can confirm that.

[RoundBadge]

Originally Posted by api1608

I can confirm that.

Weird.
I spoke to the tech dept at API a few days ago and they said its not happening

i'll believe it when i see it.

[Careyn]

Pardon my ignorance but why spend so much money these days on automation and not use the automation features of your DAW and have the console for mixing the levels?

[The MPCist]

Originally Posted by Careyn

Pardon my ignorance but why spend so much money these days on automation and not use the automation features of your DAW and have the console for mixing the levels?

Well, it's different. When you lower your levels in the DAW, your noise levels are still the same -- now imagine having 24-32 channels with tube outboard inserted all hissing... lol

Also your levels from the DAW would be pre-insert so riding the faders on the console would sound a bit different....

[RoundBadge]

Originally Posted by Careyn

Pardon my ignorance but why spend so much money these days on automation and not use the automation features of your DAW and have the console for mixing the levels?

Doesn't work well if your using outboard stuff[comps,pedals,delays,etc] on the channel inserts,subs,etc on the console
you need auto after that stuff so you don't mess your gain structure up going into the comps,etc[ie:thresholds,etc]

[Careyn]

Originally Posted by RoundBadge

Doesn't work well if your using outboard stuff[comps,pedals,delays,etc] on the channel inserts,subs,etc on the console
you need auto after that stuff so you don't mess your gain structure up going into the comps,etc[ie:thresholds,etc]

Originally Posted by The MPCist

Well, it's different. When you lower your levels in the DAW, your noise levels are still the same -- now imagine having 24-32 channels with tube outboard inserted all hissing... lol

Also your levels from the DAW would be pre-insert so riding the faders on the console would sound a bit different....

I see. Thanks for clearing this out for me.
Cheers.

[DirkB]

Originally Posted by RoundBadge

Doesn't work well if your using outboard stuff[comps,pedals,delays,etc] on the channel inserts,subs,etc on the console
you need auto after that stuff so you don't mess your gain structure up going into the comps,etc[ie:thresholds,etc]

Ofcourse that's the essential issue.

However, if you can live with one additional DA/AD loop than it can be made workable. Just use inserts in your DAW prefader. then do automation in the DAW and then send to the console.

Still a workaround, but only for channels where you need both outboard comps and automation at the same time.

Regards,
Dirk

[RoundBadge]

Originally Posted by DirkB

Ofcourse that's the essential issue.

However, if you can live with one additional DA/AD loop than it can be made workable. Just use inserts in your DAW prefader. then do automation in the DAW and then send to the console.

Still a workaround, but only for channels where you need both outboard comps and automation at the same time.

Regards,
Dirk

thats an option but I just cannot do another set of AD/DA.
it changes the sound[not in a good way] too much for my taste.plus another 10-12 k in another 32 plus channels of I/o ,id rather put that into shadowmix,etc

[Sounds Great]

Originally Posted by Careyn

Pardon my ignorance but why spend so much money these days on automation and not use the automation features of your DAW and have the console for mixing the levels?

What if I don't have a DAW, and don't want one?

[The MPCist]

Originally Posted by DirkB

Ofcourse that's the essential issue.

However, if you can live with one additional DA/AD loop than it can be made workable. Just use inserts in your DAW prefader. then do automation in the DAW and then send to the console.

Still a workaround, but only for channels where you need both outboard comps and automation at the same time.

Regards,
Dirk

If you do it that way, why not just keep it in PT and mix there? I don't see how spending the extra money on extra ad/da's and the console just to do it this way.... And if the API is just a 'summer', there are cheaper ways to do it.... 8816/dangerous/equinox/etc....

[DirkB]

Originally Posted by The MPCist

If you do it that way, why not just keep it in PT and mix there? I don't see how spending the extra money on extra ad/da's and the console just to do it this way.... And if the API is just a 'summer', there are cheaper ways to do it.... 8816/dangerous/equinox/etc....

Well, I certainly agree it's a workaround and not an ideal solution. And if you want to automate every channel and use outboard compression on a lot of channels, then investing in a automation system definitely makes sense.

On the other hand, if you have a cool analoge console and a couple of good outboard comps, I think this is a somewhat usable scenario instead of relying on plug-ins.

Regards,
Dirk

[jho]

Originally Posted by The MPCist

Well, it's different. When you lower your levels in the DAW, your noise levels are still the same -- now imagine having 24-32 channels with tube outboard inserted all hissing... lol

Also your levels from the DAW would be pre-insert so riding the faders on the console would sound a bit different....

Hissing? My 1608 / 1608EX doesn't hiss at all. Super dead quiet console. 32 channel summing = heaven on earth, usually 1-2-1 fader/PT out, parallels on the submasters.

Sound different? PT --> line into API. Hardware inserts pre fader on the console so moving the console fader DOES NOT change the sound.

[Mind-Over-Midi]

Originally Posted by Sounds Great

What if I don't have a DAW, and don't want one?

Then obviously his question would not apply to you, that’s what.

[Mind-Over-Midi]

Originally Posted by jho

Hissing? My 1608 / 1608EX doesn't hiss at all. Super dead quiet console. 32 channel summing = heaven on earth, usually 1-2-1 fader/PT out, parallels on the submasters.

Sound different? PT --> line into API. Hardware inserts pre fader on the console so moving the console fader DOES NOT change the sound.

So you do all of your automation moves in PT?

Thanks for your time.

[Roc Mixwell]

Originally Posted by RoundBadge

Doesn't work well if your using outboard stuff[comps,pedals,delays,etc] on the channel inserts,subs,etc on the console
you need auto after that stuff so you don't mess your gain structure up going into the comps,etc[ie:thresholds,etc]

If you have wildly varying automation on the track with something patched, why not just use a Hardware I/O for pre-fader PT insert, when/where you need it?

[Marcocet]

How has this degenerated into a conversation about whether mechanical fader automation is worth using?

I keep checking here to see if anyone has found out why shadowmix won't work with a 1608 and there hasn't been any new info. Does anybody actually know? Is it just because they're not allowed to say that it does, or is the impedance of the faders wrong, or what?

Hell, I don't even really want shadowmix for my 1608. I just want to know if it's an eventual option or not.

[RoundBadge]

Originally Posted by Roc Mixwell

If you have wildly varying automation on the track with something patched, why not just use a Hardware I/O for pre-fader PT insert, when/where you need it?

See post 159 above.in can work on individual tracks but w/ lots of parallel stuff,its a pain to double check delay compensation phase issues on the fly,it never sounds right to me.. workflow.
also I do lots off parallel stuff on auxes and subs on the console

[Noise10]

Originally Posted by jho

Hissing? My 1608 / 1608EX doesn't hiss at all. Super dead quiet console. 32 channel summing = heaven on earth, usually 1-2-1 fader/PT out, parallels on the submasters.

Sound different? PT --> line into API. Hardware inserts pre fader on the console so moving the console fader DOES NOT change the sound.

Read the post again.... He said with tube gear inserted. Meaning the outboard gear could cause noise, not the console.

[LordRadio]

I'm going to jump in here because i'm letting my ears rest and I'm virgin flipping a tape:

I have used both the RND alot (working with another GS member and brilliant engineer) tracking drums and also the 1608 and a giant white vintage API console at another studio all within the last few months. I also own the Tree Audio 500.

I was one of the original ordering persons of the 1608. They had my money and me on hold for a while. They were complete ****ing dicks to me at NAMM a few years ago. I cancelled my order and commissioned Steve to start the tree audio 500. On that experience alone i would say automation is not happening. Just my 2 cents.

Don't get me wrond, I like API products, My tree is filled with 550's and 560s and a few 525's, but well, service i don't think is their forte for the little guy (read anyone not being a 100,000$+ console)

The RND is a beautiful beast and truly built in the fashion of the classics. Mic Pres in silk mode is good as gold. Versatility in tracking is great. Tons of headroom good sound. 1608, yeah cool. I like a well maintained 1604 better. The vintage white beast sounded awesome but, you know, don't use that channel, skip this one, etc. Mixing? Tree Audio all the way. Reconfigure and go baby. Inward Connections sound all day long - plus it's shadowmix compatible.

YMMV, IMHO, PEace and all that.

BTW, Roundbadge i got a EAR 660 over here right now on lead vocals with a smidgen of Level-OR in parralel - AMAZING

[RoundBadge]

Originally Posted by LordRadio

BTW, Roundbadge i got a EAR 660 over here right now on lead vocals with a smidgen of Level-OR in parralel - AMAZING

sounds cool.I gotta try that.
I've got 2 on the mix buss w/ the Shadow hills Mastering comp -1 db from each.unreal.

[robmix]

Originally Posted by RoundBadge

While your looking check out the Rupert Neve 5088 as well.I did and its pretty great.
its on my radar for when i move to a bigger space.

And if you're still looking, check out a Daking. Rumor has it there's one for sale in the classified section here on GS

[PheelTheMusic]

Originally Posted by robmix

and if you're still looking, check out a daking. Rumor has it there's one for sale in the classified section here on gs

!Please buy his console so I can stop thinking about selling my organs on the black market!

[LordRadio]

Originally Posted by RoundBadge

sounds cool.I gotta try that.
I've got 2 on the mix buss w/ the Shadow hills Mastering comp -1 db from each.unreal.

Yeah, the gain and knobs on the EAR are weird.. took a second to get used to. AC and DC threshold WTF? But alas, once I got the gain right at the input it was on and on. only thing i wish is it had a hardwire bypass since i'm not using it in parallel. Funny enough, although i'm sure it's cpable of really great high-fi stuff, I'm using it to decimate lead vocals (almost 10 dbs of reduction on transients) and its great. 525 behind it to catch a couple peaks, Using the level-ors in crunch mode and then filtered off the top in parallel to add just a bit of mid-range rasp and the vocals sound huge. No de-esser, no eq. Awesome.

Damn, i have to return this rental in a few days to.

btw
Daking and Wonderbar are also great, modern boutique consoles.

[RoundBadge]

Originally Posted by robmix

And if you're still looking, check out a Daking. Rumor has it there's one for sale in the classified section here on GS

[ToneLux]

Originally Posted by RoundBadge

Honestly it'd be cheaper to just sell the API,get the RNC console and go w/ shadowmix

ShadowMix also uses a custom made fader from P&G that has the identical track as Pro Tools, and when you take the mix elsewhere, it retains all your moves.

[RoundBadge]

Originally Posted by ToneLux

ShadowMix also uses a custom made fader from P&G that has the identical track as Pro Tools, and when you take the mix elsewhere, it retains all your moves.

And that is what it's all about.
Auto/PT married together AND afforadable.end of storythumbsupthumbsup

[Trev@Circle]

any more news on this. Any new automation options for the 1608?

[jpupo74]

Originally Posted by rimskidog

any more news on this. Any new automation options for the 1608?

This ain't gonna happen.

[Trev@Circle]

Originally Posted by jpupo74

This ain't gonna happen.

what ain't? API providing it, shadowmix working with it, martin sound providing a lower cost option or another manufacturer entering the Market?

[alexamk]

Scott's suggestion is the exact setup that I am going to put into my studio later this year. I just recently got into API gear. Last year I bought 2 3124, 1 5500 eq, 1 2500 comp, as well as the Arsenal Audio stuff. I have over 40 channels of very high end pres in the studio (Neve, Focusrite, Amek, Wunder, Portico, Avalon, etc) but have been relying more and more on just the API's. I would love to get another 5-6 5500 eq racks and then my dealer suggested I look at the 1608. I am in the market for an ICON and was about to get one this month but with the Euphonix aquisition I may wait till the end of the year. I am planning to get the 1608 with at least 4 channels of the 527 comp and an ICON. I will use the 1608 for tracking and summing, automation will be ICON. I have and HD6 but have also started to use logic pro and it would be nice to use the 1608 with that as well.