MIC PRE/ MIC SHOOT OUT

[Sqye]

CHALLANGE:

You have to record Alanis Morisette tomorrow in your living room for a Maverick release next week.

You have ONLY these 6 choices of Mic/ Mic pre combinations:


1. C12 & Amek Purepath CIB

2. AT 4033 & 1084

3. AKG C 414 B-ULS & 1073

4. U87 & Avalon 737 vt sp

5. U67 & BAE 312a

6. U47 & Manley 610


I know none of these combinations are necessarily the ideal ones, but I'm trying to provoke intelligent responses from the experienced pros that I know you guys all are.

Thanks - can you give your reasons!

[Kestral]

Time to call Mike Nehra at Vintage King and trade some of that trash for a Neve 1073/1084

[Sqye]

If you noticed I listed BOTH of those units. But thanks for the advertisment.

[Kestral]

Originally Posted by Sqye

If you noticed I listed BOTH of those units. But thanks for the advertisment.

Ok, it's official. I have gone blind

My answer: U47 and 1084

Just for the record, I am in no way affiliated with Vintage King except for the fact that I am a very satisfied customer having spent high $$$ there.

[drmmrboy]

Only these combo's?
Or mix and match from the list?

[Sqye]

My brother - I'm very happy for you that you spend a lot of money on vintage gear and that you love your fellow gear slutz at Old Age King (JJ).

But I'm trying to get real responses from people with real reasons attached to them. I've spent the last 25 yaers of my life recording great vocalists with great gear.

And Alanis doesn't f*%k around behind the mic, so I would like to know more about why YOU would choose those particular pieces of gear for her.

Can you clarify?

Thanks.

[Sqye]

Originally Posted by drmmrboy

Only these combo's?
Or mix and match from the list?

The reason I picked these combos, is that it would be easier and more obvious to pick the combos we already know that work together. I'm trying to provoke answers like, "I would normally never use a 4033 (even though Alan Parsons raves about it) for anything, but if I had no choice I'd go with that combo".

You see, so I'm trying to create a challange that involves compromise and discussion.

Thanks

[Kestral]

Originally Posted by Sqye

But I'm trying to get real responses from people with real reasons attached to them. I've spent the last 25 yaers of my life recording great vocalists with great gear.

Wow, you've been around for 25 years and you're still a nobody? I only do it for a hobby and I've garnered national and international award nominations.

If you're playing at the level of Alanis, then you'd have the budget to get what was needed for the job. But since you don't, you're obviously a wanker. Shit or get off the pot. In your case, getting off the pot is the anwer.

[Andreas G]

...oh cool, a quiz I hope there is a flowerpot to win

well, I would take the U67 (that's a safe bet) but I don't know the BEA 312a pre (exotic, exotic, exotic, )
If I had a second chance I'd take the U47 (if it works on vox it's unbeatable) but again I don't know the Manley pre (exotic, exotic, erotic, )

so, let us know what you'll have tried on your Alanis Morisette session tomorrow and who wins the flowerpot

Andreas

[warhead]

Whatever sounded best, or the ultimate Gearslutz answer ALL of them.



I have to ask, after 25 years have you not found a winning combination for pre / mic on vocals? Just curious and sincerely not meant as a knock.

War

[joaquin]

I think that your selection will depend on her Vocal tone at the moment, the room, and the "color" that best complement the tracks she's going to sing to.
I guess that I'd record a bit of every combo (since you know and like them) and make the decision on the spot...she can help too.

On a different note: Please fellow slutz STOP with the BS and insecurities. We are all here to learn and support each other. Peace.........................Joaquin.

[ziegenh5]

This whole thing makes no sense.
How can you expect someone to tell you what Alanis is going to sound like through any of those combinations? Why marry a mic to a specific mic pre anyway. Audition mics through your favorite pre and pic one. FWIW I heard she sings through a C12, so I'd try that one first, probably with the 1073. Next I'd try the U67, then the U47, and if at that point I didn't have a great sound, I'd tell Alanis to find someone else to record her. If you are set on sticking to your pre-selected combo's, than I pick 1 and 5. BTW, it's not cool to insult people who are trying to give you advise, even when it's not the advise you wanted to hear.
Sean

[Sqye]

Originally Posted by Kestral

Wow, you've been around for 25 years and you're still a nobody? I only do it for a hobby and I've garnered national and international award nominations.

If you're playing at the level of Alanis, then you'd have the budget to get what was needed for the job. But since you don't, you're obviously a wanker. Shit or get off the pot. In your case, getting off the pot is the anwer.

Dude, just chill. I can't believe how hostile you are - I'm just trying to get real answers and opinions from people - I didn't join this thread to start fights with people. I really do appreciate your opinion. Thank you - if that's all you want to say, I respect that. I wasn't trying to come accross as arrogant or anything. I'm glad you think I'm a nobody (when you have NO IDEA WHO I AM - I could be your friggin mom) - can you tell me who an example of a somebody, in your opinion might be? You're just dropping names and advertiosing your friends business - isn;t this a DISCUSSION board?

Can we please just focus on the gear - that's what this is about, no?

[Sqye]

Originally Posted by ziegenh5

This whole thing makes no sense.
How can you expect someone to tell you what Alanis is going to sound like through any of those combinations? Why marry a mic to a specific mic pre anyway. Audition mics through your favorite pre and pic one. FWIW I heard she sings through a C12, so I'd try that one first, probably with the 1073. Next I'd try the U67, then the U47, and if at that point I didn't have a great sound, I'd tell Alanis to find someone else to record her. If you are set on sticking to your pre-selected combo's, than I pick 1 and 5. BTW, it's not cool to insult people who are trying to give you advise, even when it's not the advise you wanted to hear.
Sean

Thanks for your input. I know it make no sense. It was purely posted to spark discussion. An thank you for your input. I wasn't trying to insult anyone - I just know that we sometimes have a tendency to a) Pick our set-up with a kneejerk reponse (which is cool, if it works all the time) and b) Since we are gear sluts, we sometimes can have the tendancy to buy and use stuff without really listening to it, or thinking about the relevant applications. In this instance, I'm just tryint to address a specifac recording circumstance.

THanks a lot, Sean

[Sqye]

I'm really not trying to offend anyone - apologies to Ketral. Dude, I apprciate your input. Can you accept my apology - I really was not trying to insult you? You're the one who said for me to trade in trash, assuming a lot of things about what I posted.

Can we PLEASE focus on the gear. IN a preferably non-adversarial manner, adn without assuming or presuming anything about one another.

[Sqye]

Originally Posted by warhead

Whatever sounded best, or the ultimate Gearslutz answer ALL of them.



I have to ask, after 25 years have you not found a winning combination for pre / mic on vocals? Just curious and sincerely not meant as a knock.

War

Thanks for your response. My favorite combo tends to be the 87 or 47 and a 1073 or 1081, although the 1084s are definitley mopre versatile, obviously. I like the prsim eqs also for some help, too. 67s tend to be better for male vocals, IMHO and experience, but I haven't found a 67 to rock my world, yet - probably just my luck. I do love the c12, and 312a, as well.

[Sqye]

Originally Posted by joaquin

I think that your selection will depend on her Vocal tone at the moment, the room, and the "color" that best complement the tracks she's going to sing to.
I guess that I'd record a bit of every combo (since you know and like them) and make the decision on the spot...she can help too.

On a different note: Please fellow slutz STOP with the BS and insecurities. We are all here to learn and support each other. Peace.........................Joaquin.

Thanks

[Sqye]

Originally Posted by Andreas G

...oh cool, a quiz I hope there is a flowerpot to win

well, I would take the U67 (that's a safe bet) but I don't know the BEA 312a pre (exotic, exotic, exotic, )
If I had a second chance I'd take the U47 (if it works on vox it's unbeatable) but again I don't know the Manley pre (exotic, exotic, erotic, )

so, let us know what you'll have tried on your Alanis Morisette session tomorrow and who wins the flowerpot

Andreas

Thanks, Andreas. So you've been really happy with the 67 on energetic high female vocals? Where did you get your 67? Do you use it for a lot of diiferent stuff?
Do you find any of the higher end detail missing on that mic for female vocals?

Thanks

[Sounds Great]

Originally Posted by Sqye

5. U67 & BAE 312a

That would be my first try.

[Sqye]

Originally Posted by Sounds Great

That would be my first try.

Hey thanks, Rob. What do you like about the 67 for female vocals, and the api?

[Sounds Great]

Originally Posted by Sqye

Hey thanks, Rob. What do you like about the 67 for female vocals, and the api?

Actually I am going off what I hear people saying and based my conclusion off of that. I do have a Gefell M582/M71, which I have been told has some similarities to the 67.

I do know that with Alanis I would want something with slightly rolled off highs, and the U67 could be just the ticket.

Or purhaps a trumpet mute.

[Sqye]

Originally Posted by Sounds Great

Actually I am going off what I hear people saying and based my conclusion off of that. I do have a Gefell M582/M71, which I have been told has some similarities to the 67.

I do know that with Alanis I would want something with slightly rolled off highs, and the U67 could be just the ticket.

Or purhaps a trumpet mute.

Would that be a Daking trumpet Mute?

I suppose you're satisfied with the Gefell - to say the least?

Thanks

[Drumsound]

Based on hearing Alanis' music on the radio I would say got for the darkest combo possible. I'd start with #5 (btw is that a Manley 60dB mic pre or a UA 610?). I wouldn't even admit that the 4033 was in the building if Alanis was there. Not because of gear snobbery, but because that thing is super duper bright and I'm pretty sure that her voice and that mic would make fingernails on a chalk board sound like Perry Como.

Now...Whadda got for compressors?

[Sounds Great]

Originally Posted by Sqye

Would that be a Daking trumpet Mute?

I suppose you're satisfied with the Gefell - to say the least?

Thanks

Yes, the Gefell is a true secret weapon. I also had a UM70, which is basically the same capsule (but multi) and solid state. But the (valve) M582/M71 has much stronger output, fuller bass, and the same smooth high end.

Before deciding on this for vocals (my own, mostly), I have had C414eb, Neumann M149, Soundelux U99, Sony C37, AT 4060, and a few others.

The Sony C37 would be another posibility for Morisette, very hi-fi mids, no brittle high end. Really an in-your-face sound, especially with the BAE 312 which I had at the time. Would be just right for her sound, I bet.

[Andreas G]

Originally Posted by Sqye

So you've been really happy with the 67 on energetic high female vocals?

Yes! Especially on energetic high female vocals it'll save you!

Originally Posted by Sqye

Where did you get your 67?

www.hestudiotechnik.de
Andy and Markus from hestudiotechnik and their technician knows these old stuff and it's restauration very well. There are a lot of old mics out there (especial in your U.S. area), that are modifed to death or simply butchered! If you own such a mic, you'll never get it's strength.

Originally Posted by Sqye

Do you use it for a lot of diiferent stuff?

Of course! You should have known after 25 years that the U67 is one of the best alround mics ever build.

Originally Posted by Sqye

Do you find any of the higher end detail missing on that mic for female vocals?

You have to know how a U67 works. 1) Don't use a popscreen (the U67 don't need it, believe me it works) that kills one or two db of high frequencies, 2) the U67 takes EQ very well! (therefor it's pretty well known). Simply add some highs to your assumed dull signal and/or use the right preamp.

If you have the chance, try also an U47! If it works on vox it'll beat the U67 (more 3D). I prefer the later K47 capsule (darker), the M7 has a bumb at 8K, that may sound cool, 'cause it's more right into your face, but the younger U47 is my thing.

Andreas

[Sqye]

[QUOTE=Andreas G]Yes! Especially on energetic high female vocals it'll save you!
www.hestudiotechnik.de
Andy and Markus from hestudiotechnik and their technician knows these old stuff and it's restauration very well. There are a lot of old mics out there (especial in your U.S. area), that are modifed to death or simply butchered! If you own such a mic, you'll never get it's strength.
Of course! You should have known after 25 years that the U67 is one of the best alround mics ever build.You have to know how a U67 works. 1) Don't use a popscreen (the U67 don't need it, believe me it works) that kills one or two db of high frequencies, 2) the U67 takes EQ very well! (therefor it's pretty well known). Simply add some highs to your assumed dull signal and/or use the right preamp.

If you have the chance, try also an U47! If it works on vox it'll beat the U67 (more 3D). I prefer the later K47 capsule (darker), the M7 has a bumb at 8K, that may sound cool, 'cause it's more right into your face, but the younger U47 is my thing.

Thank you so much, Andreas. Your insight and detailed response is very helpful (of course it had to come from Germany - my wife is German, and her dad is an engineer).

I've used a somewhat modified 67 a bunch over the years - and I always thought it sounded it bit muddy to my ears. I've used them on trumpet, flugelhorn, cornet and other high brass, tenor sax and tenor vocals, and I was never really thrilled with the mic. We had some more work done on it, and I still haven't been particularly thrilled with it. I tried using it with some of my favorite female vocalists years ago, and still was not happy.

I think I need to try it again with fresh ears, some other pres, compression and eqs. I monitor with th Dynaudio m1s, which I like a lot they at least give me some good detail.

Thanks, again, you've been a big help.

I LOVE the 47.

[crypticglobe]

Originally Posted by Sqye

CHALLANGE:

You have to record Alanis Morisette tomorrow in your living room for a Maverick release next week.

You have ONLY these 5 choices of Mic/ Mic pre combinations:


1. C12 & Amek Purepath CIB

2. AT 4033 & 1084

3. AKG C 414 B-ULS & 1073

4. U87 & Avalon 737 vt sp

5. U67 & BAE 312a

6. U47 & Manley 610


I know none of these combinations are ideal, but I'm trying to provoke intelligent responses from the experienced pros that I know you guys all are.

Thanks - can you give your reasons!

Well, I know this probably isn't what you are looking for, and maybe someone said it already (I only skimmed)... but if it was an artist of that stature, and there was a budget, I would have all of those chains set up and ready to go... and maybe a few more. Then, when she got there I would spend some time doing a shoot-out. Whatever sounded best to me... and she agreed (this part is important... they have to love how they sound), would be what got the call.

That's just me though. There is no way I can hear a particular vocalist and say... oh... I would go for an SM-7 and API for that guy... etc. I mean... ya just never until you are there... ya know?

[Alexi]

hi there,

i would probably go with the

u 67, BAE 312 combo............can't tell you why though

cheers

[Sqye]

Originally Posted by Drumsound

Based on hearing Alanis' music on the radio I would say got for the darkest combo possible. I'd start with #5 (btw is that a Manley 60dB mic pre or a UA 610?). I wouldn't even admit that the 4033 was in the building if Alanis was there. Not because of gear snobbery, but because that thing is super duper bright and I'm pretty sure that her voice and that mic would make fingernails on a chalk board sound like Perry Como.

Now...Whadda got for compressors?

Thanks, drum sound - gotcha on the 4033. I've noticed on that mic that there's a weird distortion anomole with high spls all across the board frequency-wise (so male and female vox, but NOT so much with high brass - weird?!!). It's supposed to be able to handle HIGH spls - wuddup with that? Any ideas?

I was referring to the Manley unit. Why? Do you have any ideas?

Compressors include la-2as, 1176s, rnc, demeter, summit, drawmer, tlaudio, rnc, nothing SUPER fancy. VTCL-2a, that I had James Demeter modify the front end on to get even higher input gain.

I was actually going for more of a Jimmy Kimmel kind of vocal sound

[Sqye]

Originally Posted by Alexi

hi there,

i would probably go with the

u 67, BAE 312 combo............can't tell you why though

cheers

Hey no fair - you HAVE to tell me why. I NEED to know.

Thanks, ALexi.