MIC PRE/ MIC SHOOT OUT

[u b k]

i'd do things very differently than whatever was done on all of alanis' stuff to date, because i've yet to hear a song by her that makes my ears go "mmm mmm good." my heart says that, and so does my body, because i dig her music and her style and, well, HER... immensely. i just can't stand the sonics she's been saddled with.

i would without a doubt reach for your u47/manley combo first, because that strikes me as the most diametrically opposed to the sound i hear on her records.

c12's are finicky bastards, they have the ability to make really good pre's sound not so good to me. i have a langevin that hates the c12 but loves the u67, whereas the daking loves both mics.

sorry, i digress. i have a strong desire to create something with alanis, i'd like to melt away the plastic on her production and give her a good soaking with the 70's saturation hose, then dry her off with a distinctly post-millenial glitch towel, sprinkled with lavender oil and warmed to 110 degrees.

oops, did i say that out loud?


gregoire
del ubik

[barforama]

Originally Posted by Sqye

I don't know if you read earlier, but James Demeter was a pleasure to deal with when we asked him to modify his front end for us on his vtl-2a (? item name correct?) tube compressor to give us more gain flexibility on the front end for recording alternative jazz cornet and flugelhorn. I've met him and his cronies several times, and they are really cool people.

My point is, if you're unhappy with anything, you might be able to get Demeter to do mods for you, and that's pretty cool in a company, in general.

Sure, but let's cut down on all the advertising for now....

If I wanted mellow vocals my first try would be a U67 and due to the lack of a MP-2NV on your list I'd use the 312 or the Neve's.....I'd probally try 'em all. It tends to cut right through even complexe mixes. I would indeed also try a Royer R121, since I have found that on some female voices it just is THE THANG.

[Sqye]

Originally Posted by u b i k

i'd do things very differently than whatever was done on all of alanis' stuff to date, because i've yet to hear a song by her that makes my ears go "mmm mmm good." my heart says that, and so does my body, because i dig her music and her style and, well, HER... immensely. i just can't stand the sonics she's been saddled with.

i would without a doubt reach for your u47/manley combo first, because that strikes me as the most diametrically opposed to the sound i hear on her records.

c12's are finicky bastards, they have the ability to make really good pre's sound not so good to me. i have a langevin that hates the c12 but loves the u67, whereas the daking loves both mics.

sorry, i digress. i have a strong desire to create something with alanis, i'd like to melt away the plastic on her production and give her a good soaking with the 70's saturation hose, then dry her off with a distinctly post-millenial glitch towel, sprinkled with lavender oil and warmed to 110 degrees.

oops, did i say that out loud?


gregoire
del ubik

Thank you for your incredibly refreshing response. I totally hear you.

Which Langevin and Daking pres are we talknig about here, if you don't mind my asking?

And how did you get hold of YOUR c12? Did you have work done on it? If so, who did it? I'm asking like a 2 year old - why, why, why?

Thanks, gregoire for your humour and 411.

[Sqye]

Originally Posted by barforama

Sure, but let's cut down on all the advertising for now....

If I wanted mellow vocals my first try would be a U67 and due to the lack of a MP-2NV on your list I'd use the 312 or the Neve's.....I'd probally try 'em all. It tends to cut right through even complexe mixes. I would indeed also try a Royer R121, since I have found that on some female voices it just is THE THANG.

Hey, thanks, man. So you really dig the MP-2NV. Can you tell me what you like about it so much - is it mostly that you like it with the 67, specifically? Or do you use it for everything? The r121 is on definitely my forthcoming list.

When you say "it tends to cut right through even the most complex mixes", are you talking about the 67 - I'm not sure I follow you.

Sorry, I didn't mean to be advertsing for ANYONE.

Thanks so much for your input.

[barforama]

Originally Posted by Sqye

Hey, thanks, man. So you really dig the MP-2NV. Can you tell me what you like about it so much - is it mostly that you like it with the 67, specifically? Or do you use it for everything? The r121 is on definitely my forthcoming list.

I like the MP-2NV on allmost anything and everything. Really!! I sold off my Fearn pre, my Avalon pre's, my ISA215 and my Neumann pre's since they were getting less to no use.

Originally Posted by Sqye

When you say "it tends to cut right through even the most complex mixes", are you talking about the 67 - I'm not sure I follow you.

I was talking about the pre.

[Sqye]

Originally Posted by barforama

I like the MP-2NV on allmost anything and everything. Really!! I sold off my Fearn pre, my Avalon pre's, my ISA215 and my Neumann pre's since they were getting less to no use.

I was talking about the pre.

Wow - talk about advertising - I've gotta check this thing out.

Thanks a lot for your strong recommendation - much appreciated!

[Sqye]

Originally Posted by barforama

I like the MP-2NV on allmost anything and everything. Really!! I sold off my Fearn pre, my Avalon pre's, my ISA215 and my Neumann pre's since they were getting less to no use.

I was talking about the pre.

Which Avalons were you using?

[Sqye]

Originally Posted by djui5

Jagged Little Pill was recorded to ADATS. It stands to this day as an example of what an incredible Engineer, great songwriters/producers, and a unique voice can do for the music industry.

From the mic list I'd set up both the C12/CIB and the U47/Manley. I'd have her sing in both and pick which one works for the album. I'm guessing the C12 is going to work best.

If I could change any of the gear, I'd use a U47 into a GML or Earthworks pre, with an 8900 in the chain.

Her voice seems to suite this well.

BY the way, as far as the parachutes thing goes, I dropped a closed parachute onto the head of a threatening Borg from 5 flights up, and entirely disarmed him - he was en route to colonising and integrating my vast army of gear slut engineers earlier this morning.

[barforama]

Originally Posted by Sqye

Which Avalons were you using?

VT737SP's

[Sqye]

Originally Posted by barforama

VT737SP's

Ah, thanks - do you have any faith at all in ANY of the Neve clone boxes, other than the GR stuff. What do you think of the BAE stuff. People seem to dislike the vintech stuff here at GS pretty much hands down. Have you checked out any of the OSA gear? Or know folks who have?

If you had to do a desert island channel in a box?

Purepath?
ISA?
Manley?
Chandler LTD-1 seems to be VERY popular around here!
Avalon? (737 sps) You were using them - you really don't like them that much? The GR units don't really give you as much flexibility, do they? Or do they just SOUND so good? I can't believe you gave up vintage Neves for them. That blows my mind.
Have you tried the portico?
What about the true tracker stuff from Germany?

I've used Summit TLA-100, the TL Audio valve stuff, Millenia, Hardy, and so many others, and I've ALWAYS found the neves to be more kick ass.

I know I'm hammering you with questions. But I'm very curious - you seem so sold on this thing, and I can't believe it.

Anyhow, I'm going to sleep now. So I'll respond manana!!

Thanks so much for all of your input and time. You've been awesome!

[barforama]

Originally Posted by Sqye

If you had to do a desert island channel in a box?

That would be a Great River MEQ-1NV - I haven't had this particular combo in my hands, but I have a Great River EQ-2NV that is freaking amazing aswell. And this is just the single channel version.

Manley SLAM! would be a cool option aswell

Originally Posted by Sqye

Purepath?
ISA?
Manley?
Chandler LTD-1 seems to be VERY popular around here!
Avalon? (737 sps) You were using them - you really don't like them that much?

I haven't tried the Purepath, but I believe the components are similar to the ones in the 9098-series. The eq is very cool as a surgical eq, the 9098 comp wasn't really my thing. I had it for a couple of months and sold if off again. The pre is ok, but nothing stellar.

ISA eq is drop-dead amazing! However the comp on the strips is boring at best, the pre is better than the one in the 9098-series, but still not a favorite of mine. And who needs a gate on a channel-strip?

Yes, The Manley SLAM is a winner!

I did like the Avalons. The comp is useless, the pre is great and the eq is amazing for vocals....but other things were more intriguing so I had to sell something off. Actually I think I sold the last VT737 to buy my Manley Massive Passive. I haven't missed either of the VT737's...ohh, except for tracking bass. The VT737 has a really lovely DI, but I bought a U5 for that purpose instead. However the MP-2NV gets most of the DI work around here anyway....go figure.

Originally Posted by Sqye

The GR units don't really give you as much flexibility, do they? Or do they just SOUND so good?

They just sound good. What more could you possibly wish for? thumbsup

[Sqye]

Originally Posted by barforama

That would be a Great River MEQ-1NV - I haven't had this particular combo in my hands, but I have a Great River EQ-2NV that is freaking amazing aswell. And this is just the single channel version.

Manley SLAM! would be a cool option aswell



I haven't tried the Purepath, but I believe the components are similar to the ones in the 9098-series. The eq is very cool as a surgical eq, the 9098 comp wasn't really my thing. I had it for a couple of months and sold if off again. The pre is ok, but nothing stellar.

ISA eq is drop-dead amazing! However the comp on the strips is boring at best, the pre is better than the one in the 9098-series, but still not a favorite of mine. And who needs a gate on a channel-strip?

Yes, The Manley SLAM is a winner!

I did like the Avalons. The comp is useless, the pre is great and the eq is amazing for vocals....but other things were more intriguing so I had to sell something off. Actually I think I sold the last VT737 to buy my Manley Massive Passive. I haven't missed either of the VT737's...ohh, except for tracking bass. The VT737 has a really lovely DI, but I bought a U5 for that purpose instead. However the MP-2NV gets most of the DI work around here anyway....go figure.


They just sound good. What more could you possibly wish for? thumbsup

I hear that (no pun intended) - what more, indeed.

There may be some slight mods on the Purepath - it is a newer unit. I'll have to check that out. Yeah, the Slam looks like a killin' unit.

So, no BAE? HIs 312a's are at least supposed to be good. Or OSA? I guess you probably don't care at this point, since you've gotten rid of all your neve stuff - I still can't believe it. What about Daking and Langevin? Have you checked out the Liquid Channel or the Toft units? They've received some good reviews, not stellar, but at least decent.

Do you have any API stuff, at all. tutt

Yeah, you're right - my friend Janek (KILLIN jazz player from the UK) uses the U5 for a DI for his live and recording rig. We used it to track him in my studio in the city last year - it sounded great. Everything your iterating seems to be consistent with general consensus, and I'm very happy to have your opinions and perceptions, because they reinforce what I know, and what I've heard and read at this point.

Thank you so, so much for all your info - you are the KING OF DENMARK , I presume, to be so gracious with your time. Thanks, many times. Such detailed reports - muichas gracias, senor!!

[barforama]

Originally Posted by Sqye

So, no BAE? HIs 312a's are at least supposed to be good. Or OSA? I guess you probably don't care at this point, since you've gotten rid of all your neve stuff - I still can't believe it. What about Daking and Langevin?

Do you have any API stuff, at all. tutt

I don't have any Brent Averill or OSA stuff, no.
I don't believe I've ever said I've gotten rid of any Neve stuff?!!?

Daking pre and eq's is to my knowledge a remake of the Trident A-range. I use the MTA Trident A-range reissue and like it very much. The pre's has their force on closemiced drums, bas- and guitar-amps. Sorta like the same stuff the GR MP-2NV shines on. The eq on the A-ranges is great. Not at all subtle or transperent, think more in the ways of aggressiveness

I've had a Langevin Dual Vocal Combo in the studio for a while and it is a good preamp and limiter. Especially considering the low price!! It also had to go when I bought my Massive Passive though. It didn't get all the atention it deserved.

Originally Posted by Sqye

Thank you so, so much for all your info - you are the KING OF DENMARK , I presume, to be so gracious with your time.

No, no. I am king of the world.
You're welcome.

[djui5]

Originally Posted by Sqye

Which GML and Earthworks pres are you partial to, and what kind of sessions have you done with them, if you don't mind me asking?

They're all the same. You either get a 2 or a 4 channel one. GML released a new "channel strip" that has a pre, eq, and compressor in it. I've heard it sounds really good, but haven't had the pleasure to test it out. I might try one of these.
I've used clean pre's on a lot of stuff. Rock to rap to vocal oriented pop or pop/rock. I use them when the singer sounds great and the music dosen't require a lot of flavor from the singer, like Alanis or Celine or MJ, etc etc etc. Other mic's I like in this situation are the C-800 and Blue Bottle.

Can you describe the mics, eq, and compression that you like for aggressive female and high male vocals using this favored gear of yours? Your favorite combos?

If it's aggressive music with an aggressive voice, I'd use, for female, a U47 into a 1095 into an 1176 or a distressor. For male I might try a 57 or SM7 if the U47 didn't work. A fet 47 is another possibility. For pre's I'd try either a 212 or 1095. Possibly something tube like a V78 to see how it would sound. It depends on the singer and the song. I'd use either an 1176 or distressor in the chain also. For fx's with these types of situations, I'd send the vox through either a guitar cab or stomp box for flavor/distortion. If I felt the need, a Pultec MEQ might see it's way into the chain.

I mean, 47 to GML with the 8900 is clear. Do you have some other winning combinations that you know you'd try off the bat?

Again it depends on the song and style of the album. If I had available, I'd also try a C-800 into a 737, or a Manley reference into a GML/EW's or API 212.

Thanks so very much for your time

Anything for you little buddy

[Drumsound]

Originally Posted by Sqye

Thanks, drum sound - gotcha on the 4033. I've noticed on that mic that there's a weird distortion anomole with high spls all across the board frequency-wise (so male and female vox, but NOT so much with high brass - weird?!!). It's supposed to be able to handle HIGH spls - wuddup with that? Any ideas?

I was referring to the Manley unit. Why? Do you have any ideas?

Compressors include la-2as, 1176s, rnc, demeter, summit, drawmer, tlaudio, rnc, nothing SUPER fancy. VTCL-2a, that I had James Demeter modify the front end on to get even higher input gain.

I was actually going for more of a Jimmy Kimmel kind of vocal sound

The first room I worked in had a 4033 as our "best mic" for a while. It kinda pissed me off on all kinds of vocals, harsh and splatty. It is however a great acoustic guitar mic.

The compressor line was just me being a smart ass. With your list you shouldn't have a problem.

[Sqye]

Originally Posted by djui5

They're all the same. You either get a 2 or a 4 channel one. GML released a new "channel strip" that has a pre, eq, and compressor in it. I've heard it sounds really good, but haven't had the pleasure to test it out. I might try one of these.
I've used clean pre's on a lot of stuff. Rock to rap to vocal oriented pop or pop/rock. I use them when the singer sounds great and the music dosen't require a lot of flavor from the singer, like Alanis or Celine or MJ, etc etc etc. Other mic's I like in this situation are the C-800 and Blue Bottle.



If it's aggressive music with an aggressive voice, I'd use, for female, a U47 into a 1095 into an 1176 or a distressor. For male I might try a 57 or SM7 if the U47 didn't work. A fet 47 is another possibility. For pre's I'd try either a 212 or 1095. Possibly something tube like a V78 to see how it would sound. It depends on the singer and the song. I'd use either an 1176 or distressor in the chain also. For fx's with these types of situations, I'd send the vox through either a guitar cab or stomp box for flavor/distortion. If I felt the need, a Pultec MEQ might see it's way into the chain.



Again it depends on the song and style of the album. If I had available, I'd also try a C-800 into a 737, or a Manley reference into a GML/EW's or API 212.




Anything for you little buddy

You have been most generous with your responses, and I am very grateful. Thank you very, very much for your insight and gear recommendations.

Yes, I do also love the vocals through the amp color, sometimes (these days, I usually use plug-ins for that effect), and I like the Pultec unit a lot.

I've even used the 57 on harsh female vocals afew times, and one engineer I met tracked Madonna with a 57 for a dance track (speakers blaring in the control room - how's that for hi-fi, though I'm sure you've heard that particluar tale, or maybe even know the guy). I believe Sammy Hagar uses the 57 (or used to) quite frequently - I wouldn't be surprised, given his style of delivery).

Thanks, again - you made my day.

[Sqye]

Originally Posted by Drumsound

The first room I worked in had a 4033 as our "best mic" for a while. It kinda pissed me off on all kinds of vocals, harsh and splatty. It is however a great acoustic guitar mic.

The compressor line was just me being a smart ass. With your list you shouldn't have a problem.

Hey, thanks.

I just thought you might have specific compressor in mind that you like particularly for the high energy hi register female vocals.

As regards the 4033, It's really weired with that mic - I've been happy with it recording mellower and even somtimes harsh high brass and vocals (sometimes, even versus vintage 87s and 67s), and then sometimes it seems, it's way too harsh.

The nicest high brass sound I got EVER, was thumbsup with a pair of 4033's x-y at about 2 1/2 feet in a large burled maple concert hall with the player at the foot of the stage - pretty large hall (not huge), but the sound was pure butter.

Anyhow, thanks again, for your feedback.

Again, any specific compressor recomendations and/ or settings would be welcomed if you have a formula that you know and like.