Lavry Blue or DA 11?

[Delta Heavy]

Originally Posted by Twin303

Will the Presonus in that chain massively effect the sound quality, should i take it out?

Al

it's passive, so it shouldn't do.

i would be more concerned with the 824s, but that's just me

[The Beatsmith]

i have FF800 -> Lavry DA10 -> Central Station -> Adam S3A/NS10's/Event TR8's

the central station is great, no colouration i've found. however, there are issues with my remote (i don't trust them at all) so i stopped using it. actually, they're all like it, i think. basically, the main unit is near my desk so i don't bother plugging the remote in. maybe i'll buy another one one day if my setup has to change and give it another go, but i am not happy with my remote unit.

go for it. i think the blue will be great, but i wouldn't bother spending the extra cash on it - get the DA11 and put money towards upgrading your monitors.

cheers

[Chris Wilson]

Originally Posted by Twin303

I can't decide between the Lavry blue 2 channel AD/DA or the DA 11. Does anyone know if the Blue has an Spdif or optical or is it just AES/EBU? More importantly which sounds better?l

The LavryBlue D/A has only AES/EBU input and balanced XLR out.

If you plan on expanding your conversion setup to more channels in either direction, the Blue would allow you to run more channels off one internal clock, which is desirable and a little more cost effective. If you need only two channels of D/A, your Blue chassis would sit 75% empty and be less versatile in function.

Does anyone know if the conversion is better on one or the other?

[Ashermusic]

Originally Posted by Chris Wilson

The LavryBlue D/A has only AES/EBU input and balanced XLR out.

If you plan on expanding your conversion setup to more channels in either direction, the Blue would allow you to run more channels off one internal clock, which is desirable and a little more cost effective. If you need only two channels of D/A, your Blue chassis would sit 75% empty and be less versatile in function.

Does anyone know if the conversion is better on one or the other?

Dan says they sound pretty much identical. With the Blue you get expandability mostly.

I have owned a DA-10 for several years now and it made a big difference in the quality of my mixes.

[funka]

i would be more concerned with the 824s, but that's just me

No, me too...

[P Sound]

Originally Posted by Twin303

I am looking to put a Lavry Da converter in my setup. I currently use a Fireface 400 and a Presonus Central station to run multiple inputs and outputs.

I can't decide between the Lavry blue 2 channel AD/DA or the DA 11. Does anyone know if the Blue has an Spdif or optical or is it just AES/EBU? More importantly which sounds better?

My chain would work Fireface 400 > Lavry > Presonus > Mackie HR 824

Will the Presonus in that chain massively effect the sound quality, should i take it out?

Any thoughts would be great.

Al

Chris Wilson wrote:

The LavryBlue D/A has only AES/EBU input and balanced XLR out.

The LavryBlue 4496 has XLR digital I/O that is compatible with most RCA/SPDIF I/O using simple XLR to RCA adapters. So it does, in effect, have "SPDIF" I/O. The analog outputs of the MDA-824 (the DA converter in a 4496) can be configured for balanced or unbalanced operation, just like the DA10 or DA11.

The 4496 is configurable, so you can get it with just the DA converter; but it is a bit more complicated if you want to add an AD converter at a later date because the first AD converter has to be in place to install the MSYNC clock module for the AD converter(s). Because there are critical calibrations done at the time of installation, this is usually done at the factory.

As with most things in life, there are good things and not-so-good things about passive attenuators. If they worked better in every application, all audio equipment would have them (right?)

The biggest concern with using a passive attenuator is that at any position other than "full up," it effectively raises the source impedance. I believe this is why the "remote" for the volume control may yield results that are not as good as without it- there is enough cable and the associated capacitance that can affect the frequency response. Ideally, the passive attenuator should be located as close as possible to the input (amplifier) it is feeding. Practical considerations usually mean that some cable is needed between the passive attenuator at the listening position, and the amp/monitor inputs, so there will always be some cable impedance issue. If the attenuator is a relatively "low" value like 600 ohms to 1k, this effect can be minimized, but not eliminated. If the impedances are such that there is interaction in the audio range, the most noticable effect is usually that the "character" of the sound changes as you raise and lower the volume.

The volume control of the DA10/DA11 optimizes this by using something similar to a passive attenuator to adjust the level, then an output buffer amplifier to "de-couple" the attenuator's (variable) impedance from the cable. The result is that the "character" of the sound is very consistent over a wide range of volumes- much better than with a standard rotary potentiometer volume control.

But this does not mean you can't get good results using the Presonus system. You need a good low impedance source (which all of the Lavry DA converters are), and to use good quality low-capacitance cable that is as short as practically possible to make the run from Central Station to amp/monitor input, to get the best results.

[JHolla006]

Originally Posted by The Beatsmith

i have FF800 -> Lavry DA10 -> Central Station -> Adam S3A/NS10's/Event TR8's

Could someone explain the reason for adding the Lavry as a Converter when the fireface already is an ad/da??? Im sorry to jump into your thread?

[theblotted]

Originally Posted by JHolla006

Could someone explain the reason for adding the Lavry as a Converter when the fireface already is an ad/da??? Im sorry to jump into your thread?

because Lavry conversion is better. because Lavry doesn't interface directly with say, a Mac Pro. because FF800 has a killer software mixer with solid drivers.

my chain is FF800 --> Lavry Blue AD/DA (using canare transfo's) --> CS --> HR824's/NS10's.

better sound for sure. never tried DA11.

[JHolla006]

Originally Posted by theblotted

because Lavry conversion is better. because Lavry doesn't interface directly with say, a Mac Pro. because FF800 has a killer software mixer with solid drivers.

my chain is FF800 --> Lavry Blue AD/DA (using canare transfo's) --> CS --> HR824's/NS10's.

better sound for sure. never tried DA11.

So how or when would you know to "only" use a DAC by itself it a ADC by itself?

[theblotted]

Originally Posted by JHolla006

So how or when would you know to "only" use a DAC by itself it a ADC by itself?

when you have one that you can trust... or can't hear/feel the difference in your workflow.

[Getafix]

Personally i would be wary of adding something like the Presonus in between the Lavry & your monitors. If you need to switch between extra monitors & need other features you could consider something like the Dangerous D-Box.

[theblotted]

Originally Posted by s-cube

Personally i would be wary of adding something like the Presonus in between the Lavry & your monitors. If you need to switch between extra monitors & need other features you could consider something like the Dangerous D-Box.

have you used the Presonus Central Station?

[engmix]

I have, and i agree not to use with something as high end as the lavry. I think the CS is an excellent bang for the buck for home project setups. Not for critical listening.

[chu]

Originally Posted by P Sound

Chris Wilson wrote:
The LavryBlue 4496 has XLR digital I/O that is compatible with most RCA/SPDIF I/O using simple XLR to RCA adapters. So it does, in effect, have "SPDIF" I/O. The analog outputs of the MDA-824 (the DA converter in a 4496) can be configured for balanced or unbalanced operation, just like the DA10 or DA11.

The 4496 is configurable, so you can get it with just the DA converter; but it is a bit more complicated if you want to add an AD converter at a later date because the first AD converter has to be in place to install the MSYNC clock module for the AD converter(s). Because there are critical calibrations done at the time of installation, this is usually done at the factory.

As with most things in life, there are good things and not-so-good things about passive attenuators. If they worked better in every application, all audio equipment would have them (right?)

The biggest concern with using a passive attenuator is that at any position other than "full up," it effectively raises the source impedance. I believe this is why the "remote" for the volume control may yield results that are not as good as without it- there is enough cable and the associated capacitance that can affect the frequency response. Ideally, the passive attenuator should be located as close as possible to the input (amplifier) it is feeding. Practical considerations usually mean that some cable is needed between the passive attenuator at the listening position, and the amp/monitor inputs, so there will always be some cable impedance issue. If the attenuator is a relatively "low" value like 600 ohms to 1k, this effect can be minimized, but not eliminated. If the impedances are such that there is interaction in the audio range, the most noticable effect is usually that the "character" of the sound changes as you raise and lower the volume.

The volume control of the DA10/DA11 optimizes this by using something similar to a passive attenuator to adjust the level, then an output buffer amplifier to "de-couple" the attenuator's (variable) impedance from the cable. The result is that the "character" of the sound is very consistent over a wide range of volumes- much better than with a standard rotary potentiometer volume control.

But this does not mean you can't get good results using the Presonus system. You need a good low impedance source (which all of the Lavry DA converters are), and to use good quality low-capacitance cable that is as short as practically possible to make the run from Central Station to amp/monitor input, to get the best results.

cheers mate! nice info here

[javahut]

Originally Posted by theblotted

because Lavry conversion is better. because Lavry doesn't interface directly with say, a Mac Pro. because FF800 has a killer software mixer with solid drivers.

my chain is FF800 --> Lavry Blue AD/DA (using canare transfo's) --> CS --> HR824's/NS10's.

better sound for sure. never tried DA11.

So you take an analog out of the FF800 to the AD of Lavry, then the Lavry DA out to Central Station and then to the monitors?

Or you take a digital out from the FF800 to the Lavry digital in and let Lavry do the DA to the Central Station?

If the former, I'd switch to the latter... and get rid of the CS and use the Lavry for volume. Or in some cases... I might even prefer using the digital volume control in Total Mix.

My question is... how much latency is there going from the AD of the Fireface, to the DA of something like the Lavry and out to the monitors? Is it more than going from the the Fireface AD, and then staight out of the FF800 DA? Or is taking the digital out of the Fireface to an external converter via SPDIF coax, optical, or AES about the same latency as using the internal FF800 conversion? My worry is latency of using an external converter fed from the FF800 would be a little too much for monitoring tracking. But maybe that's not a problem? I know in the FF800 conversion, latency has got to be under 5ms... around 3ms or so, for decent tracking to me. Is that doable with AD to the FF800 and digital out to the digital in of an external converter, then out to the monitors?

I'm thinking it may be just as good or better to upgrade to the RME UFX and keep everthing in TotalMix. That would keep the tracking latency as low as possible and still have relatively great DA conversion for tracking AND mixing via the UFX.

[dude24man]

get the UFX and be done with it, you can use it as a monitor controller. head phone mixes with no latency or next to none with effects. the difference between the rme DA and the lavry DA is very small. get the UFX and make music and forget about it!!!!!