Death Cab For Cutie "Transatlanticism" and the compression on the overall mix

[tubesandteles]

Is anyone here familiar with Transatlanticism by the band Death Cab For Cutie? I was wondering if it is regarded as being over compressed in the mixing/mastering stage by many of you guys/gals? I really like the way it sounds, probably more than any other recording in that genre. By that genre, I mean a combination of loops, acoustics, electronic drums, real drums.... If you know who they are you will know what I am talking about. Also consider the Postal Service, another project of the singer in Death Cab For Cutie. Any opinions on their mixes? Too compressed....squashed maybe? I am getting into recording, at least, I have been doing it for 4 years and I am only now beginning to get anywhere, I didn't say somewhere...just anywhere. Any advice could help. Thanks you guys/gals.

[RoundBadge]

The Death cab Guy had a guest forum over at PSW and flaked on the whole thing.
weak...

[jchadstopherhuez]

i dont really feel like it is "overcompressed" at all...at least not to my ears...it is a rock record...and there certainly is alot of compression used....but it sounds damn good to me....not anywhere near most "modern" rock stuff.

alot of the mixes I do trying to emulate TLA and the like has my SSL quad bus pegging up to 10 db reduction at a 4:1 ratio.....but, it sounds cool...

i think chris walla is a fantastic engineer as well as a great guitarist and songwriter...really love the tones...guitars and drums and vocals....and, I agree that it is a great use of loops, effects, acoustic and electric guitars....

i find the death cab stuff to really sound phenomenal...but..its my opinion..

great band..nice guys

[rainsinvelvet]

I thought that record sounds really good.. It's been a benchmark for me lately when I want the indie rock kinda thing. I'de love to hear more about the recording process..
It sucks to hear that the guy flaked on a guest mod position.

O'well, Still a cool sounding record.
ERic

[RoundBadge]

Yeah..I've been referencing to this record a lot lately..
love it.
credit due though....Chris did answer some Transatlanticisism questions before going MIA..

[tubesandteles]

Well, I always get really negative feedback about my mixes being too limited and all that jazz, but they sound very close and appear very close to alot of stuff that I compare them to in the studio. I take this stuff way too much to heart. I literally worry about overcompression of my mixes while I am in class. If you guys wouldn't mind would you give this a listen. This is supposed to be the mastered version, and I usually feel like it is supposed to kick my ass, you know. Like, I wanted a very modern radio compressed sound. But, yes, death cab transatlaticism is like the holy grail for me, along with Jimmy Eat World. Their last three albums are all as good of quality as I EVER hope to attain. But after that EQ article, I know why it sounds good. The mic list for drums alone was phenominal. Get what you pay for I guess. Anyway, you people who kinda like overcompression, listen...
http://www.soundclick.com/artist/4/treyrick_music.htm
I know it is hard to tell by Mp3's but it is my only choice at this point. I think "Lights in August" is okay, it isn't really very too compressy I guess, but "Time to Time" I love and hate. Too squashed..? That is the question.

[s00p3rm4n]

I could not disagree more. Much as I love Death Cab, and as strong as the songs are, the album sounds way too sterile to me. Not enough air. Even "The Photo Album" sounds less compressed, more dynamic. I like recordings with personality - where you can hear the room. Modern-day Death Cab sounds like it was grown in a petri dish in a laboratory - sterile. Hell, the new single sucks too but I'll still buy the album. I LIKE disparity - I like it when you can tell which drum part is a machine and which isn't. I don't understand why some people want every part to sound the same. Listen to an Eels album - E throws found sounds and samples all over the place, and they sound completely crazy and retain all/much of their original noise - and yet the songs still come together. I hate this notion of some non-native or found sound coming in and destroying everything else. As long as it's in the service of good music, you can have animals cawing and howling (Sgt. Pepper... not overcompressed, is it?) and still give everything room to breathe.

And anyone emulating Tom Lord-Alge's mixing "talents" needs to be bludgeoned with the bluntest of objects. That man has ruined everything he's touched. I can literally not think of a modern engineer/mixer whose output has had less personality or more compression than TLA. I'm not saying you're a bad person, I'm just saying you should try to examine what it is about TLA that you like. I only respect him for his sense of precision with the groups he works with. But precision isn't everything - Foo Fighters came off the heels of recording Colour and the Shape, where everything was precise and beat-for-beat perfect and triggered. Then they just got together in a house and recorded There is Nothing Left to Lose, a lot fewer overdubs, no hundred-guitars-playing-one-part... and it's (IMHO) a better written and sounding album by miles. It's compressed, but you still hear the breaths, you still hear a drum off by milliseconds...

I miss the sound of humans playing music.

[thermos]

That is one album I won't listen to because I hate how it sounds so much. Claustrophobic, and a 2-3k nightmare. Doesn't match his songwriting at all I think.

As for overcompression, anyone check out the Futureheads album? That thing sounds ridiculous and is compressed to utter death. You can easily sit through the whole disc and not get fatigued.

[wagz]

i just bought this album 2 days ago. i would really like to know ben gibbard's vocal chain and possibly which keyboards/synths they use for postal Service.

[max cooper]

Wow, maybe I've not given this one enough of a chance. I find that I usually like most of the same stuff that you like, Roundbadge. I've tried and tried with Transatlanticism, but it never 'stuck'. I guess I'm gonna have to give it another go.

[tubesandteles]

The genre in which we are kinda talking about...and they way it should sound. Can you read a few posts up at mine, and talk to me about those two songs at the link that I have in the post please? It would be much appreciate guys/gals.

[s00p3rm4n]

Originally Posted by thermos

That is one album I won't listen to because I hate how it sounds so much. Claustrophobic, and a 2-3k nightmare. Doesn't match his songwriting at all I think.

As for overcompression, anyone check out the Futureheads album? That thing sounds ridiculous and is compressed to utter death. You can easily sit through the whole disc and not get fatigued.

The Futureheads are The Proclaimers without twins. The Proclaimers are Elvis Costello with less clever lyrics. Elvis Costello is The Clash with weaker percussion and more thrash. The Futureheads are The Clash without Elvis Costello's clever lyrics, The Proclaimers melodic sensibilities, or The Clash's percussion or politics.

In a word... suckage.

[RoundBadge]

Yeah, I see what you guys mean about the compression thing on transa..
especially on the rockier tunes
for some reason I don't mind it that much on this record..
Maybe i'm just listening to the radio to much lately
Chris does get some cool sounds overall though.
I'm starting to like the photo album[just got it] more though.

[u b k]

Originally Posted by tubesandteles

The genre in which we are kinda talking about...and they way it should sound. Can you read a few posts up at mine, and talk to me about those two songs at the link that I have in the post please? It would be much appreciate guys/gals.

lights in august isn't too bad, time to time has way too much compression for my taste. it's also a mix thing; there's too much snare and not quite enough vocal for me in august, feels a bit 80's. any chance of convincing you that obvious autotuning is way played out? the chopped vocal/delay at the end is very cool.

in time to time i like the balances but the compression has killed all the life in the drums, and the whole thing doesn't move any air. i'm extra sensitive to this at the moment because i ended up crushing my latest mix too much, enough that i may remix it if it doesn't end up fitting with the rest of my album.

all that being said, your songwriting is great and so is your engineering, so don't sweat this shit. there is no such thing as perfection, and everything you ever do will have flaws and strengths. learn, apply it to the next thing you do, lather rinse repeat. your tunes sound and feel better than 90% of the stuff i hear from folks with questions like yours, vibe is such a rare and beautiful thing and you've got it in spades.

keep it up my friend, all is well.


gregoire
del ubik

[RoundBadge]

Lights sounds fine..Yeah the auto toon thing is way played
..don't sweat it, your doin fine.
Like time to time as a song better.. but yeah the life is squashed out of it..
Start working the automation side of things more and hit the squasher lighter early in the mix process..with practice, little bits of both you can give the glue and keep the excitement thing too.

what stuff are you mixing with?ITB?ITB..plugs...hardware?

[s00p3rm4n]

Originally Posted by RoundBadge

Lights sounds fine..Yeah the auto toon thing is way played
..don't sweat it, your doin fine.
Like time to time as a song better.. but yeah the life is squashed out of it..
Start working the automation side of things more and hit the squasher lighter early in the mix process..with practice, little bits of both you can give the glue and keep the excitement thing too.

what stuff are you mixing with?ITB?ITB..plugs...hardware?

I second that... if you compress earlier and lighter, you'll realize that everything sticks together better - then you end up with a song that's actually got real musical dynamics in the waveforms!

And at that point, you will be INSTANTLY better than 82.4% of popular music.

[RoundBadge]

Originally Posted by s00p3rm4n

And at that point, you will be INSTANTLY better than 82.4% of popular music.

that has a nice ring to it...don't it!?

[s00p3rm4n]

Originally Posted by RoundBadge

that has a nice ring to it...don't it!?

I also think dead air has a nicer ring to it than 82.4% of popular music. And much more thoughtful melodies and lyrics!!!

[RoundBadge]

Originally Posted by s00p3rm4n

I also think dead air has a nicer ring to it than 82.4% of popular music. And much more thoughtful melodies and lyrics!!!

[jchadstopherhuez]

Originally Posted by s00p3rm4n

And anyone emulating Tom Lord-Alge's mixing "talents" needs to be bludgeoned with the bluntest of objects. That man has ruined everything he's touched. I can literally not think of a modern engineer/mixer whose output has had less personality or more compression than TLA. I'm not saying you're a bad person, I'm just saying you should try to examine what it is about TLA that you like. I only respect him for his sense of precision with the groups he works with. But precision isn't everything - Foo Fighters came off the heels of recording Colour and the Shape, where everything was precise and beat-for-beat perfect and triggered. Then they just got together in a house and recorded There is Nothing Left to Lose, a lot fewer overdubs, no hundred-guitars-playing-one-part... and it's (IMHO) a better written and sounding album by miles. It's compressed, but you still hear the breaths, you still hear a drum off by milliseconds...

I miss the sound of humans playing music.

Sorry...disagree with you about death cab...really dig the record...as for bludgeoning me, or anyone else....i cant say that i enjoy emulating TLA...I would have to agree with you about 100% concerning him...other than the fact that it is "the radio" sound that alot of my PAYING clients want...so.....

If I am making the calls on the overall SOUND of a record, I am again 100% with you...I would always prefer to hear a RECORDing of a band in a room...warts and all...I do hate the fact that the mainstream "music" these days is autotuned and beat detectived to death...basically having all the life sucked out of it...that sucks...I think the Death Cab dudes at least make ART....maybe not your thing sonically....

Please dont bludgeon me...just creating a balance...my TLA emulations help float my ability to work on REAL records....and it is fun watching that meter peg and any life beat out of the "hit song" we may be "mixing" at the time...

BTW...Tom is a hell of a nice guy...and, lets face it...has become a legend in this biz..like it or not..

Wish the same would happen to Chris Walla, or Matt Bayles, or John Vanderslice, or many other deserving audio talents...

cheers, j

[Zooey]

It's overcompressed, but not fatally so. I, too, prefer the roomier, more dynamic sound of the Photo Album (not to mention that the Photo Album is the only DCFC album with exceptional drums, and that makes a big difference to me).

The squashed-ness of Transatlanticism hasn't put me off listening to it. Unlike, say, the Killers album.

edit: you can add Bloc Party, the Bravery, Futureheads, and the new Fountains of Wayne single to that list (though the rest of the FoW B-Sides are cool).

[dasbin]

I think Transatlanticism has an awesome sound to it. I too use it as a reference a lot lately. It is technically a bit squashed but the compression has a good sound to it, for whatever reason. I like it. There is a SACD version too I think, though I haven't heard it.
The album has a huge sound to it. Makes them sound like some sort of epic movie scene rather than a rock band (which is, dissapointingly, all they are live).
I haven't liked most previous Death Cab mainly because of shoddy production... Photo Album is at least pretty close, it sounds to me like it was trying to reach Transatlanticism but only got 75% of the way there. Previous albums and singles were small, sterile, and thin sounding. Transatlanticism is also by far the most complex, with an incredible amount of layers and sounds in there that I have no idea what they are.
The biggest difference is that Ben's vocal sound has improved enourmously with each album. The sound is bigger and more encompasing and 3D each time. I too would be very interested to hear what vocal chain was used - I tried emailing like 10 people and companies associated with Death Cab asking this a while ago, but got no response.

If someone can get directly in touch with Chris Walla, I would be a very grateful man. I think there is some magic compression recipe on the lead vox going on here.

As a side note, I don't hear any overabundance of 2-3K on this record at all. If anything this record is rather "warm" and mid-bass-oriented than practically all recent pop/rock recordings. It doesn't have the annoying ear-attacking guitars of, say, recent Weezer. Much more mellow sounding, while somehow being bigger.

[s00p3rm4n]

Originally Posted by mixman499

Sorry...disagree with you about death cab...really dig the record...as for bludgeoning me, or anyone else....i cant say that i enjoy emulating TLA...I would have to agree with you about 100% concerning him...other than the fact that it is "the radio" sound that alot of my PAYING clients want...so.....

If I am making the calls on the overall SOUND of a record, I am again 100% with you...I would always prefer to hear a RECORDing of a band in a room...warts and all...I do hate the fact that the mainstream "music" these days is autotuned and beat detectived to death...basically having all the life sucked out of it...that sucks...I think the Death Cab dudes at least make ART....maybe not your thing sonically....

Please dont bludgeon me...just creating a balance...my TLA emulations help float my ability to work on REAL records....and it is fun watching that meter peg and any life beat out of the "hit song" we may be "mixing" at the time...

BTW...Tom is a hell of a nice guy...and, lets face it...has become a legend in this biz..like it or not..

Wish the same would happen to Chris Walla, or Matt Bayles, or John Vanderslice, or many other deserving audio talents...

cheers, j

It's sad that people expect that sound from you. I really do understand if people pay you and expect you to do it, but still if you have any input you could at least encourage them to let you turn down the robotifying machine. Or just laugh in their faces whenever they tell you to turn the compressors up. Literally. They've already paid you, it's okay. If that doesn't work - there's always the threat of physical violence. Hey, it worked for Phil Spector!

Vanderslice - fookin' A, yes! Chris Walla - for the most part! TLA - frankly I could care less if he's a nice guy, he still makes records that sound like utter ass.

I love Transatlanticism - I think the songs are great. It's just boring to listen to because every peak and ounce of air have been sucked from it. That said, I love DCFC, but would only listen to them on record. They must have some kind of mystical voodoo shaman who cuts chickens' heads off come in to compress the vocals - because Ben's voice is pretty lame live.

Is TLA really a legend? Because that would be pretty goddamn sad. I think it's saying something when Butch Vig makes more dynamic-sounding records than someone.

And I won't bludgeon you. I'll just sit in the corner, silently judging you.

[Zooey]

Originally Posted by s00p3rm4n

I love Transatlanticism - I think the songs are great. It's just boring to listen to because every peak and ounce of air have been sucked from it.

It's a bit boring to me for a different reason: it sounds like every note was painstakingly overdubbed. Unlike the Photo Album, I don't get the sense that the band was ever in the same room at the same time.

[dasbin]

Chris Walla is producing the new Nada Surf album. I'm very excited. Hopefully this will mean a reversal of the crap production on Let Go which absolutely destroyed the emotional content that the boys bring to their songs.

[dasbin]

Originally Posted by Zooey

It's a bit boring to me for a different reason: it sounds like every note was painstakingly overdubbed. Unlike the Photo Album, I don't get the sense that the band was ever in the same room at the same time.

Does this really matter? An album should stand on its own; it is what it is.. in this case, an art form created by many means which would not be possible live. I think that gives it a fantastic sound.
Have you heard DCFC live? IMO, you don't WANT to hear those guys in the same room at the same time
To me the Photo Album had potential that was never brought forward because of the boring production. It was too straight-rock-band-esque. The songs were written with a similar epic feel as Transatlanticism but the production was something else entirely.
It was a great album with fantastic songs, there was just always a feeling with it that it could have been more.

[tubesandteles]

THanks Roundbadge and ubik...
It is so great of you both to give me a listen and some responses. ubik, I agree with you on pretty much everything you said. I will take those things to mind when working on future material...in a few days when I get back in the studio (summer school at the moment). For Roundbadge, you asked about whether it was mixed ITB or how, plugs, software...
For Time to Time, which I agree with you about the drums...lol..and the snare completely by the way. This is going to sound strange but I was going for one of those CLA or TLA mixes. There are alot of songs that my friends really like, that just explode the speakers and kick my ass and hurt my ears...particularly by the Juliana Theory, their album love (actually a few were mixed by CLA). I was going for that on Time to Time.
A Vintech X73i (my good pre! that I LOVE DEARLY) was used as often as possible on that song. It was used on the snare with a 57. The guitar tracks were two complete takes of the song on a Fender Hot Rod Devil Panned R and L. First pass with a 57, second with a sennheiser e602 (kick mic). Bass was done direct with the x73i, synths and keys were done in Reason 2.5. Vox KSM32 through, you guessed it, Vintech x73i. Shaker...vintech. Hi-hat that is sampled periodically throughout the song in addition to the live drums....vintech. LOL. All recorded into Cubase SX2 through a Motu 896HD. I guess I tried outboard summing...lol, by sending the Stereo L and R channels through my two JoeMeek VC6 British Channels, the compressor was nice I thought, sounded good before the L2. But what destroyed the drums..I knew it when I did it, was a Nomad Blue Tube FA...something Compressor. Kinda killed them, I squashed them too much. I was going for that at the time, but I am smarter now, and I know there is a middle ground I could have met. I learn SO much from you guys on a daily basis.
As for Lights in August, all programming done in reason. Bass played through Vintech, who would have though, vox done with VINTECH x73i and a Shure Beta 87c. Lights was mixed in the box...i had just gotten my M-Audio Trigger Finger, and I was fascinated with using Cubase and Reason rewired to it...because I could record vox in cubase, process them, chop them up and put them in ReDrum withing Reason and just sample on top of the track. Lights was a spur of the moment thing. Hope I didn't bore you all too bad, you asked Roundbadge and I told you. The only eq that I used on anything was the channel eq in Cubase SX, pretty much only hi-pass filters.
Death Cab makes me sick with their sweetness. The vocals sound perfect to me! UBIK, I really enjoyed listening to your song during the nicesizer test. It is really good. It is the type of music that I think I am into creating the most. Time to Time is a little more typical rock than I feel most of my album will end up being. I really look up to you guys and I value your opinion. Thanks so much to everyone. I feel like I am getting a better audio education than I could get at any college congregating here...discussing and learning trial by error. Thanks again.

[BrianBrian]

I have the Transatlanticism SACD and definately don't think it is overcompressed. Never compared it to the redbook version though, maybe that is different. The vocals sound fantastic, but I think the overall sound is definately cleaner than any earlier album. I thought "Lightness" had some excellent bass sounds and great production overall. I really liked Photo Album, Something About Airplanes, and We Have the Facts....quite a bit more than this one.

Oh if you are interested in The Postal Service, check out DNTEL (Jimmy Tamborello, who made the beats/backing tracks for TPS). He put out some great records before collaborating on "Give Up". In fact you can hear Ben singing on Life Is Full Of Possibilities in 2001 (?), which is a great album. Also check out Something Always Goes Wrong by DNTEL. Excellent ambient music, very different from anything else I have heard by him.

[dasbin]

The first single from DCFC's new album is available on their website. Really cool vibe this song has! Besides the excellent songwriting, the production is really interesting... very airy stereo vox. Cool stuff.

[soundeslutz]

certain dc songs deffinitly have there own signature to them. as for the song at hand, one of my persnal faves,i do taste quite a bit of compression, but i dig it.