GML 8200: General mix bus settings?

[switch1]

So where do you start for boosting highs and lows on the mix bus with the GML 8200? I know that every mix has a different treatment but what is the first things you try with that eq?

[Doc Mixwell]

Originally Posted by switch1

So where do you start for boosting highs and lows on the mix bus with the GML 8200? I know that every mix has a different treatment but what is the first things you try with that eq?

Honestly, There is no way this question can be answered in a posting without context. To give you a sense of what is needed, and or not needed, #1 for subtracting, you boost and sweep to find the offending FREQ, and then CUT and Sweep, to fix it. #2 for adding, you simply reverse that thinking, and that's where I would start. That might make zero sense, but its the approach I take with every equalizer no matter what. EQ is a spectral/tonal balancing device, so you can find the proper "balance" with the source which is the sole purpose for using it. The 8200 is a smoldering hot, Ginsu Samurai Sword, that slices through cement, or butter. What the material you're going to be slicing through is hard to say on my end.

[TonyBelmont]

A lot of engineers would just turn up the highest frequency (which was 26k) to add that air to the mix.

[switch1]

Well I am pretty sure that every mix needs a different treatment but I know that lots of super-star mixing engineers start with a preset eq on their mix bus.

I've read an interview of Spike Stent ( Spike Stent ) where he clearly states that he raises the high-end on his GML 8200. This is what he says:

Basically what I do with every mix is put a GML EQ across the stereo buss of the SSL, and just lift the top end, above 10K, so I won't have to use as much high end from the SSL. The mid and high end of the SSL is a little harsh and cold. So I turn that down a bit, and then lift the high end with the Massenburg to make the mix sound warmer and add sheen.

So to me that sounds like a shelf at 10k

[Doc Mixwell]

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

A lot of engineers would just turn up the highest frequency (which was 26k) to add that air to the mix.

I like putting my mixes outside to get "that air" you speak off.

Is there different "air" for hip hop than for rock?

[Silver Sonya]

The very nature of the OP question suggests to me that you should not have an 8200.

Yes, I'm going to be that guy in this thread.

Ladies and gentlemen: appearing tonight in the role of Supercilious Bastard, please welcome Chad Clark!

*sigh*

Listen, these are very refined tools that give you access to the ability to pull sound in any direction you want. The GML has a bendy quality to it that is fantastic. It's not my favorite EQ, but it is a truly great addition to anyone's arsenal. However, if you're looking for a "recipe," --- some static setting that is a "betterizer" --- you should save your money. Please don't use an 8200 like some people used to use an Aphex exciter.

Internet audio culture can get so gross sometimes.

OK, dour, boring, insufferable professional guy rant over.

As you were.

- c

[switch1]

Originally Posted by Silver Sonya

The very nature of the OP question suggests to me that you should not have an 8200.

Yes, I'm going to be that guy in this thread.

Ladies and gentlemen: appearing tonight in the role of Supercilious Bastard, please welcome Chad Clark!

*sigh*

Listen, these are very refined tools that give you access to the ability to pull sound in any direction you want. The GML has a bendy quality to it that is fantastic. It's not my favorite EQ, but it is a truly great addition to anyone's arsenal. However, if you're looking for a "recipe," --- some static setting that is a "betterizer" --- you should save your money. Please don't use an 8200 like some people used to use an Aphex exciter.

Internet audio culture can get so gross sometimes.

OK, dour, boring, insufferable professional guy rant over.

As you were.

- c

Well I am already using the GML 8200 for 2 years now with great success.
(at least I like what I hear:P) Mainly some mild top end boosting.

I am not looking for a recipe, I would love to share opinions and see how everybody else is using that amazing piece of gear and I am definitely not looking for a "nicerizer" (come on...). I am pretty sure that lots of people start their mixes with a preset eq on their mix bus, never tried it, looking for opinions: that simple

[bforest4]

Totally legitimate question that I would like to hear the answer to. I have a GML 8200 and know several other mixers that have them and everyone of them starts off with certain settings, and then sometimes tweeks these settings through the mix. But many times, I stay with the same settings I started with because I am mixing into the EQ to add that GML sheen and reduce boosting with plugins.

My settings usually start at +1 db at 16K(Q is set pretty wide), +1 db at 5k, +1 at 3K, +1 at 80HZ.

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by roc mixwell

i like putting my mixes outside to get "that air" you speak off.

[Audio Hombre]

dont agree at all, with due respect to your proness.

most hardware eq's with fixed points (unlike many plugins) have a limited number of places to start. assuming you know what you're looking for in advance, there's nothing "wrong" or noobish with starting with some points you're familiar with. like i know right off the bat what a 5500 @ 40hz and 15k is going to do, with even just +.5db added.it's going to provide awesomeness to my less-than-uber- pro ears, thats what its going to do.

i've read comments here where the hammer @5k is automatic if that's what you're looking for and have heard samples with judicious amounts of it's glorious 10k added. i know with the eq-2nv, i love a conservative amount of 56hz of bell, or 100-180hz of lo shelf. every point of it's high shelf is grand but 15 & 18k are the heavenly points for 2buss imho.

there's no zen in using an eq imo. so no deep breaths, closed eyes and meditation required before picking that special eq point. people tend to make this stuff out to be a bigger deal than it actually is more often than not. with a great eq [i've never used a gml but i read its great] you have to go out of your way to fvck something up as far as im concerned.

so i think asking where people like to template from isn't a far fetched question at all.

Originally Posted by Silver Sonya

The very nature of the OP question suggests to me that you should not have an 8200.

Yes, I'm going to be that guy in this thread.

Ladies and gentlemen: appearing tonight in the role of Supercilious Bastard, please welcome Chad Clark!

*sigh*

Listen, these are very refined tools that give you access to the ability to pull sound in any direction you want. The GML has a bendy quality to it that is fantastic. It's not my favorite EQ, but it is a truly great addition to anyone's arsenal. However, if you're looking for a "recipe," --- some static setting that is a "betterizer" --- you should save your money. Please don't use an 8200 like some people used to use an Aphex exciter.

Internet audio culture can get so gross sometimes.

OK, dour, boring, insufferable professional guy rant over.

As you were.

- c

[Silver Sonya]

Originally Posted by bforest4

Totally legitimate question that I would like to hear the answer to. I have a GML 8200 and know several other mixers that have them and everyone of them starts off with certain settings, and then sometimes tweeks these settings through the mix. But many times, I stay with the same settings I started with because I am mixing into the EQ to add that GML sheen and reduce boosting with plugins.

My settings usually start at +1 db at 16K(Q is set pretty wide), +1 db at 5k, +1 at 3K, +1 at 80HZ.

Come on now, people.

This is patently absurd. How can you talk about this in the absence of musical context?

These are frequencies. The 8200 is an equalizer. You use it to augment or attenuate a certain area of the time-based spectrum. Use it logically. Add where you feel there is a deficit, subtract where you feel there is a surplus. It's not mystical. There are no "starter settings."

This is emperor's new clothes to a ridiculous and loathesome degree.

"Which frequencies do you like?"

"Oh, I like 4.5kHz. That's a favorite of mine."

"Cool. I'm a big fan of 300Hz myself."

Um... WHAT?!?

This is is the kind of folderol and misinformation that gets disseminated and amplified through the internet and creates a canon of baseless audio mythology. It results in me having to spend half my working day de-programming my clients from this kind of horseshit language. I have come to resent it.

Make music. Use your ears and use reason. Be an engineer.

- c

[switch1]

Originally Posted by Silver Sonya

Come on now, people.

This is patently absurd. How can you talk about this in the absence of musical context?

These are frequencies. The 8200 is an equalizer. You use it to augment or attenuate a certain area of the time-based spectrum. Use it logically. Add where you feel there is a deficit, subtract where you feel there is a surplus. It's not mystical. There are no "starter settings."

This is emperor's new clothes to a ridiculous and loathesome degree.

"Which frequencies do you like?"

"Oh, I like 4.5kHz. That's a favorite of mine."

"Cool. I'm a big fan of 300Hz myself."

Um... WHAT?!?

This is is the kind of folderol and misinformation that gets disseminated and amplified through the internet and creates a canon of baseless audio mythology. It results in me having to spend half my working day de-programming my clients from this kind of horseshit language. I have come to resent it.

Make music. Use your ears and use reason. Be an engineer.

- c

I can definitely understand what you are stating here and my approach is very close to yours.

But I've heard GREAT (actually consistently great!) mixes from people that work in a completely different way that the one that you suggest:

Want high mids on a kick? First try 5k and off they go.

Bass comp? Always 1176, nuke mode please.

Vox brilliance? Lets try 8k.

Master bus? Don't want me to start talking about presets on comp and eq... You can see that in a lot of great studios!

They tend to have some eq "presets" in their brains and then they tweak everything until it sounds kickass. My best friend (great great mix engineer, amazing instict and vibe) starts with a preset setting on his master bus comp and a preset setting on his Massive Passive mix bus eq and starts mixing into them.

So are all these talented mixers wrong? I don't think so, it is just that sometimes things work great without thinking in a 100% orthological way like yours.

The fun part: I've heard great suggestions from people that cannot deliver a nice mix and some horrible suggestions from those kickass-super-consistent-mix guys.

In the end it's all about delivering some nicely mixed tracks and chating with fellow engineers about the magic of mixing while being open to a different opinion, isn't it?

[Podgorny]

Mix bus EQ settings come ONLY through your own experience.
When you find yourself consistently boosting or cutting certain frequencies, you can take care of it all at once instead of a track by track basis.

If you use my settings, you'll end up compensating throughout the course of your mix to make it sound the way YOU like it.

You're better off using YOUR 2-bus settings to make the mix sound the way you want it to. It isn't any more complex than that.

[mikymike]

Originally Posted by switch1

So where do you start for boosting highs and lows on the mix bus with the GML 8200? I know that every mix has a different treatment but what is the first things you try with that eq?

I would start by boosting the highs and the lows!!!

[Andrew Kinsey]

Originally Posted by Podgorny

If you use my settings, you'll end up compensating throughout the course of your mix to make it sound the way YOU like it.

You're better off using YOUR 2-bus settings to make the mix sound the way you want it to. It isn't any more complex than that.

I think you've hit the nail on the head there.

It is true that alot of the well known mix engineers who use the 8200 have a setting which they use to mix into the unit. Usually its a slight boost in the highs and sometimes the lows, this means that you dont have to do as much eq'ing on the console to get the mix sounding where you want it.

[whitepapagold]

Funny...

I have a starting point on the GML, not sure why people are trying to claim you can't...

And I assumed the OP was referring to the +3 db @ 80hz and +3 db @ 14Khz "recently internet famous" settings... and not a shelf in this case.

Which are great by the way. Of course tweek to taste but its a fun starting point I would NOT normally use and now try everytime. But when a mix feels mid heavy- which lets admit is pretty common, its not a bad place to start... And after my 33609 its pretty happening on the top end- the bottom 3db is almost always too much. BUT I start there on purpose- to think differently. Im a pussy when it comes to EQ and rarely push more than 2 db. I push it up top ALL THE TIME now... adjust the boost and freq and good to go.

Anybody saying settings as starting points on gear doesn't work is a fool... And just wants to be argumentative and an internet fonzie... Starting points, not ending points...

An eq isn't like the threshold on a compressor, its like the compression ratio... And the 1176 is a perfect example of starting points as already pointed out. Try the Bones Howe 1176 setting- its AWESOME... or are you guys better than him too?

[Doc Mixwell]

The 8200 already resembles something that denotes stopping and starting. Just flip it on its side and it will remind you of a street light. You might be waiting a while for it to flash green or red.

[Silver Sonya]

Originally Posted by whitepapagold

Anybody saying settings as starting points on gear doesn't work is a fool... And just wants to be argumentative and an internet fonzie... Starting points, not ending points...

While I must say that I like the term "internet fonzie" and find it very amusing (and may start using it in the future), I disagree.

The only thing that works with EQ is empiricism and musical reason. You find the frequency you want to hear more of or less of. And then you turn the knob. That's it.

- c

[okydoky]

hi,

the best thing is to boost all the frequencies on the gml, heavily. that way you don't have to do any e.q. at all on the console.

console e.q. sucks. just ask "clb".

in fact, you won't even need a console. consoles suck too.

a good approach is to mix "in" to the gml [remember to boost all frequencies], but you have to follow it with at least 2 compressors [one to "tame the peaks" and one to "add weight"], and you have to follow the compressors with a device that simulates an mp3 player with the loudness switch on. these are available at wal-mart.

you don't need speakers either. nobody cool uses speakers anymore. use earbuds [or some old koss headphones for more street cred].

anyhow, just "mix into" all that and you will be just like the pros and your beats will be dopey and rockous.

you're welcome.



right.

[nlc201]

Originally Posted by oky****

a good approach is to mix "in" to the gml [remember to boost all frequencies], but you have to follow it with at least 2 compressors [one to "tame the peaks" and one to "add weight"], and you have to follow the compressors with a device that simulates an mp3 player with the loudness switch on. these are available at wal-mart.

I think Waves is releasing an emulation of this chain at Summer Namm. It's supposedly indistinguishable from the original hardware and software. I hear it will be "warm", "huge" and "analog". They're also using modern digital emulations of old mp3 codecs to give your mix that "vintage 2002" vibe. But you have to use the presets to get the full effect. "Awesome" tends to be the most favored preset by the "pros"......

[okydoky]

Originally Posted by nlc201

I think Waves is releasing an emulation of this chain at Summer Namm. It's supposedly indistinguishable from the original hardware and software. I hear it will be "warm", "huge" and "analog". They're also using modern digital emulations of old mp3 codecs to give your mix that "vintage 2002" vibe. But you have to use the presets to get the full effect. "Awesome" tends to be the most favored preset by the "pros"......

hi,

oh, good! i love me a good emulation.

with any luck it will also provide "a wider more 3-d sound", "better upper midrange clarity", and "more [or less] detailed highs".

and yes, of course we should use the presets, because there all the settings have been pre-set to the best, most awesome numbers [and clb uses presets].

trying to mix based on the actual frequency content of the material can be too dangerous. presets help to avoid that danger.

i'm pretty sure underwriter's laboratories requires presets to be included now, and there's probably a fine if you erase the presets.



right.