Have you ever recorded drums using deca tree?

[Guruceta]

Hi! I was wondering if anyone looking after an awesome room sound to have just that one for drums (no indiv. micing) had ever tried using the decatree technique to achieve one huge and cool stereo sound on the drums.
If positive, can you upload any samples?
Thanks!

[alanwes]

I've recorded various drums in this way. AB, XY and Decca Tree.

Sometimes i'll just put a pair of Schoeps in front of the kit and it is what's needed.

[Guruceta]

Oh thanks for giving me the spam reporting way...So back in the thread, would you consider the results with the decca tree, good, excellent, amazing??
I'm really looking forward to try this recording but I won't be in the studio in a month but I want to be ready..

[lord_bunny]

I'm just trying out a decca tree today for some drums... I'll post the results. It's me drumming so mic technique can only do so much.

My room is about 1400 sq ft.

Kick Beta52 - Great River
Snare SM75 - Great River
Tom 1 MD421 - Soundworkshop
Tom 2 RE20 - Soundworkshop
OH R84 - Aphex 1100
Center DT C12vr - Aphex 1100
Left DT 414B-uls - Great River
Right DT 414B-uls - Great River

We tested it last night after tearing down yesterdays session. I was really happy with the results. In my room it was better than just spaced pair or Blumlein on their own. I've also done Blumlien for center with spaced pair on either side for a wide image all parallel to each other and it didn't really do it for me like the decca tree.

[vernier]

Btw, what's a good Decca recording that shows this wonderful "tree" thing?

[greatgreatriver]

Originally Posted by Peacock

I have done this and usually limit tracking to 8 tracks or so with my personal music. I posted a song in the One man Production thread where I tracked the drums with a modified Decca tree application. Its post no. 246 in the below thread.

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-mu...ml#post4944337

Great sound man... Beautiful room. The guitar could be less bright though- it cuts through too much.

[lord_bunny]

Originally Posted by Peacock

I do not understand your post. Decca tree recording would not involve individual drum micing.

IIf you use a decca tree it doesn't mean you can't use spot mics. I've worked on film score gigs where there were plenty of additional mics beyond the Decca Tree.

The idea is to use the Decca Tree as the room mics and use that sound as the basis for the whole thing and just bring in kick/snare etc in to help fill it out...

[matskull]

What's a decca tree exactly?

[The_Controllers]

Mic position: 3 microphones in an overhead situation, in a kind of triangle placement. Used a lot in orchestral recording/predominantly large rooms. The mic of choice was usually the Neumann M50's (I think)

[matskull]

Originally Posted by The_Controllers

Mic position: 3 microphones in an overhead situation, in a kind of triangle placement. Used a lot in orchestral recording/predominantly large rooms. The mic of choice was usually the Neumann M50's (I think)

ok, I learned this technique some years ago but it wasn't the same name in french.

I believe it required to use 3 omni placed at a specified distance from each other, right?

[madriaan]

Originally Posted by Peacock

I agree. However, this is a banjo you are hearing.

Made me laugh

m.

[greatgreatriver]

Originally Posted by Peacock

I agree. However, this is a banjo you are hearing.

Thanks for listening.

After mixing I also, felt the banjo was a little harsh sounding.

Yeah yeah - I was a little quick on the typing... No need to make me look like a clown. I'm a cop and ex bodybuilder and I have Yammy NS10 in my CR.

[AlexK]

Originally Posted by Peacock

I agree. However, this is a banjo you are hearing.

Thanks for listening.

After mixing I also, felt the banjo was a little harsh sounding.

Hahaaa! Made me laugh too, not[/B] at greatgreatriver though.

Originally Posted by greatgreatriver

Yeah yeah - I was a little quick on the typing... No need to make me look like a clown. I'm a cop and ex bodybuilder and I have Yammy NS10 in my CR.

I don't think Peacock was trying to make you look like a clown. I would've honestly written the same thing as you in the heat of it...

@Peacock - I love the tune, and the production is really is quite leftfield IMO, but it sounds great! thumbsupthumbsup

[greatgreatriver]

No worries - I laughed to... I'm all string based here - enjoy playing both banjo, tenor guitars etc.

My earlier post was not serious...

Enjoyed the track and wish that I could have that cool room sound in my little studio.

Keep it up guys!

[Ol' Betsey]

Originally Posted by Peacock

I think it could be hard to tell the difference between a jangly gtr and banjo in the mp3's we are listening too.

I once had a guy complain his electric sounded like a banjo...

I suggested it sounded more like a mandolin and that maybe removing his capo from the 7th fret might help?



R.

P.S. Sorry never gone with Decca. Yet.

[Guruceta]

Originally Posted by Ol' Betsey

P.S. Sorry never gone with Decca. Yet.

I guess I kinda had that coming...hahaha

[greatgreatriver]

Originally Posted by Peacock

I meant nothing by it at all my friend. I think it could be hard to tell the difference between a jangly gtr and banjo in the mp3's we are listening too. I did not try to come back with a jab at all. I do in fact agree with you.

Thanks man -

Do you have more takes from this session? I really like what you did to the sound. Love the room tone.

Keep it up bro!

[edva]

there are no rules of course, but AFAIK the Decca tree method was devised to record a larger "instrument" than a drumset. Not it's intended use, if it matters to you.

[greatgreatriver]

Sweet PM me when you have the site up!

[edva]

interesting. After several decades of playing and mic'ing drums, I have returned to a 2 - mic setup, sometimes using ribbons in M/S, which gives one the great ability to adjust the stereo image in the mix.
I have simply grown tired of "conventional" multi-mic'ed recorded drum sounds, and now want my drums to sound real. One of the changes brought about by the increasing fidelity of digital, I suspect. YMMV.

[edva]

Exactly, either ribbons or omni's are my mics of choice here as well. Once you get used to the realism, it's hard to go back.

[Guruceta]

Originally Posted by edva

Once you get used to the realism, it's hard to go back.

Soooo FU**ing true. I was recording guitars today and couldn't get back to motus marshall valvestates and aria pro guitars at any rate,hahaha! thumbsup

Still nothing to do with decatree but as it's the thread I opened....whatever!

[lord_bunny]

Perhaps this is not interesting but the distance between the L and R omni's is about the distance apart I would normally put my room mics. My decca set-up is also pretty close to the ground, only 3' up or so. So the only change is bringing the C mic into the picture and putting it out front more as per the classic decca set-up.

It doesn't sound overly wide to my ears, but I'm using more of the C than the L and R. Although i haven't mixed with it yet it's sounding quite natural.

One of the keys to natural drums I've found is when I use say an R84 for overhead, I don't HPF at all and in fact it's the start of the drum sound. I can blend in the close-mics so they reinforce the OH and it sounds very natural. My decca tree starts about 7' away, and again it gets brought in underneath that overhead so you feel it more than hear it.

I'll post something soon. I've been to lazy to edit my takes this week but I'm doing another round of songs tonight.

Good thread!

[Guruceta]

It'd be amazing if you could post some audios....PLEASEEEEE!!!

[Teddy Ray]

Originally Posted by vernier

Btw, what's a good Decca recording that shows this wonderful "tree" thing?

Original Masters - Ernest Ansermet - Decca Recordings 1953-1967 - Decca - DEC B000837002 - 028947581406 - HBDirect

http://www.arsc-audio.org/journals/v18/v18n1-3p4-19.pdf