accurate mic for electric guitar

[lambro]

I am having a hard time capturing the sound the way I hear it in the room

Source is electric rock guitar, tube amps, strats & les pauls, Beck, Hendrix, Schenker, Moore, type sounds, mostly leads.

I use vintage 421s, vintage M88's, Lawson Tube 47 LDC, Beyer 260 Ribbon (no switch) SM 57's. I recently got rid of my 121, which I fear my be the ticket now

The 260 is smooth with nice low end but the highs are gone, mids suppressed
The M88 sits really well, nice upper mids but a noticeable roll off on the highs
The 421 is full but not much mid information and a tad grainier than the M88
The Lawson 47 is probably closest to what I want but is its extremely hard to get the placement where I ham happy with the balance and phase
SM57 too buzzy in top

I have spent about 3 days mixing and matching, different mic angles, distances, panning etc, but nothing sounds like the amp does which is more open and clear (despite the overdrive and sustaining lead sound)

Are there any amp friendly mics that would be more accurate, without being brittle or shrill?

Thanks

[warhead]

Heil PR 30.

Nice cab mic for sure.

War

[DeepSpace]

Originally Posted by lambro

Are there any amp friendly mics that would be more accurate, without being brittle or shrill?

Yes:

Neumann BCM705

or

Shure SM7b

thumbsup

[nas]

Not sure what kind of material you're doing or what your goal is, but I think it's helpful to think of what you hear in the room and what is going to sit well in a multi-track mix as really two different environments. Even if you can get an EXACT replica of what you're hearing in your room, it may not necessarily be the "appropriate" sound or sit well in your mix. You may have to do some E.Q. to carve a space for your guitars so they can be heard clearly with the other instruments in the arrangement. So I think that you should use a mic that will best help in allowing your guitar to sit comfortably in the mix with other instruments with very little E.Q. needed.

The SM57 and the Royer 121 have proven themselves time and again they are great for this... and have more than likely been used by the guitarists who's sounds you really like.

Good luck.

[keiffer]

what speakers do you have available?

I believe you may be right about the 121.

[lambro]

thanks guys

just ran out and picked up a Heil PR30 (actually went to GC to buy something new..)

cleaned up the sizzle nicey

Dr Z Maz 18, Cel G12H speaker, 2001 Custom Shop LP Custom with burstbuckers, using a wampler overdrive pedal, getting a modded Marshall sound at 18 watts instead of 100, of course missing the big air movement

running the PR30 about 6 inches from the grill, lined up with the outside of the cone pointing 45 deg in to the center

have the Lawson LDC around the corner for some aural bleed, mixed together its pretty nice, oh going into a Helios type 69

keep it right here at gearslutz people

[McPhaul]

SM7B and/or AEA R84

Perfect

[Track 7]

Originally Posted by warhead

Heil PR 30.

Nice cab mic for sure.

War

+1 Warren nails it again!

[gwailoh]

Have you tried a 57 and your Lawson in XY pointing at the same speaker? I don't use these exact mics, but, I've found that a 57 or other dynamic plus a decent LDC in XY on the same speaker seems to result in a very natural sound. I usually use an MD409 and a 47fet or 414B-ULS, 'cause that's what I have. :-) 6" - 12" back usually.

[seanmccoy]

Originally Posted by warhead

Heil PR 30.

Nice cab mic for sure.

War

Just used my PR40 on a woofy Celestion cab recently and thought it was great. What is different or better about the 30 vs. the 40?

[NathanEldred]

Bock 195 and/or Shure SM-7b these days for me.

[1radicalron]

I Record a lot of Electric Guitar amps. I like Dynamic Mic's for louder amps. I use Condensor Mic's when the Amp is not so loud, and I want alot of detail.
My Favorites: Loud Amp
#1 Heil PR-30
#2 Sennheiser N/D468
#3 EV RE-20
#4 Shure Sm7
#5 Royer 121
My Favorites Not so loud Amp - Jazz, Ambient etc...
#1 Shure KSM-32
#2 AKG 414ULS
#3 Neumann U87

[lambro]

for this particular sound, I don't want any buzz from mics

I am finding even the finer grain fizz of the 421 and M88 as detrimental

but SM57 buzz is not even considerable

yes I have tried an X/Y with the lawson and the 57, the 57 is going...to ebay

The PR30 is doing wonders for this app.
Sean, Heil on the differences of the PR30 & 40 (guitar & tom vs Bass and Bass drum)
PR Series Microphones | Heil Sound

currently the Lawson is is about 6 feet away pointing across the speaker direction perpendicular and its set on Omni, blending that with the PR 30 which is ~ 6 inches from the grill but at a 45 deg angle, I am getting the sound I hear in the room and it is sitting with the bass and drums perfectly

Nathan's suggestion is in the same camp with 195 & SM7

First time since tracking that I've caught myself just riffing away with monitors on...

thanks again Warhead

[LeMauce]

Just want to chim in with a perhaps a stupid tip.
But i had also the same problem. After knowing a bit the room where i track I found a good spot.
Then i marked when im standing next to the amp in front of it like 3meters away it sounds nothing alike to stand next to it. Also when I was almost flat on the ground with my head in front of the cabinet and 3meters away.
When i was up it sounded great and full.
Flat on the ground. Hars and dull sometimes.
So I fix now my EQ and settings to my taste when im on the ground (the face's that some assistant engi make... priceless) on the same level where my close take mic's are.
I have know less probs to find quick and good sounds.

[warhead]

Originally Posted by seanmccoy

Just used my PR40 on a woofy Celestion cab recently and thought it was great. What is different or better about the 30 vs. the 40?

The 40 ever so gently sets the midrange back, is a little more airy and also brings more bass response to the game. The PR 30 has a bit more midrange focus and not quite as much low end, which fits cabs better in general in my opinion. However, the PR40 is, out of the PR series, the most versatile overall with a more extended sound top to bottom.

He wanted a cab mic and based on his description, for sure the PR 30 (and at a lesser price) seemed to be the ticket. A tighter, more focused midrange.

Originally Posted by lambro

thanks again Warhead

Originally Posted by Track 7

+1 Warren nails it again!

Y'all is the bestest...!

War

[seanmccoy]

Originally Posted by warhead

The 40 ever so gently sets the midrange back, is a little more airy and also brings more bass response to the game. The PR 30 has a bit more midrange focus and not quite as much low end, which fits cabs better in general in my opinion. However, the PR40 is, out of the PR series, the most versatile overall with a more extended sound top to bottom.

He wanted a cab mic and based on his description, for sure the PR 30 (and at a lesser price) seemed to be the ticket. A tighter, more focused midrange.
War

Gotcha, thanks. So in this case, where I was looking for a massive, full-range power sound, the PR40 may have been the better choice. But I'm adding a PR30 to my shopping list.

[gwailoh]

Originally Posted by warhead

The 40 ever so gently sets the midrange back, is a little more airy and also brings more bass response to the game. The PR 30 has a bit more midrange focus and not quite as much low end, which fits cabs better in general in my opinion. However, the PR40 is, out of the PR series, the most versatile overall with a more extended sound top to bottom.

I wonder whether there are differences between individual PR40s, as I've read similar descriptions comparing the PR30 and PR40 in other threads, yet, these descriptions contradict my own results. My PR30 has considerably more low end than my PR40, and is flat up to a moderate bump at about 4khz. My PR40 by comparison is a bit thin on the low end, and has a pretty hefty bump at about 5khz. The PR30 is good on guitar and bass cabs, and sounds great inside a kick drum. Whereas this particular PR40 is thin on bass and kick, and downright fizzy on guitar cab. See some of the comments toward the end of this thread on PSW for similar results: PSW Recording Forums: Whatever Works => The Heil PR 40 Dynamic mic...AWESOME!.

[TanTan]

depends on the number of guitar tracks in the mix.. if i had to live with one mic it would be a U47, but I'm using SM57's, MD421's and U87's all the time, i don't think i did any guitar amp recordings the past year without a Coles 4038 as a second mic about 2-5 meters from the amp

[BLueROom]

my fave for guitar has been the Senn 441. I LOVE this mic

[Baz]

Well, as I recently commented on in another thread, and as described in this thread, the SM59 has to be the biggest sleeper out there for e-guitars. Eats the 57 and I don't see myself using the 57 in have lieu of the 59 anytime soon if I don't have to. I know, I know "but the 57 is used on countless, classic records!@?" whatever, I like the 59 way more and the fact that it doesn't have that often annoying hump in the high mids is probably what I like about it. Very ribbonesque sounding but with a tad more extension.

I also love the 414BULS on the grill with a dynamic or U87i + R121 Tandem for the most natural sound, but that doesn't work for all styles.

[seanmccoy]

Originally Posted by gwailoh

I wonder whether there are differences between individual PR40s, as I've read similar descriptions comparing the PR30 and PR40 in other threads, yet, these descriptions contradict my own results. My PR30 has considerably more low end than my PR40, and is flat up to a moderate bump at about 4khz. My PR40 by comparison is a bit thin on the low end, and has a pretty hefty bump at about 5khz. The PR30 is good on guitar and bass cabs, and sounds great inside a kick drum. Whereas this particular PR40 is thin on bass and kick, and downright fizzy on guitar cab. See some of the comments toward the end of this thread on PSW for similar results: PSW Recording Forums: Whatever Works => The Heil PR 40 Dynamic mic...AWESOME!.

Sounds like somebody snuck into your studio and switched the mic labels to me.

[gwailoh]

Originally Posted by seanmccoy

Sounds like somebody snuck into your studio and switched the mic labels to me.

Not just mine, seemingly. See the final page of the PSW thread I linked to.

[nomoreflakes]

I use a 57 and a 121 together (through a TG2) with a 414 (through a v72) about 3-5 feet away for ambience if the room i'm in is up to it. Take time to check phase / comb filtering. Come mixing I usually end up using eq to brighten / remove proximity mung and generally use a more 57 than Royer with the ambient mic much lower than both often panned the other way for space.