Studio Planning

[musicguitar]

Hey everyone,

I am graduating college with a degree in Finance in May 2009. I have a great job lined up at a financial firm. On the other hand, I have been big into recording music for about 9 - 10 years. I decided to turn my studio hobby into something real on the side (weekends/nights after my "real" job). I have the gear I already own listed below, and then I have a list of gear I want to invest in. I would like to know some thoughts on my list and see if it can be tweaked to better suit my studio needs. I want to record full-bands (rock/pop/metal/etc). I will have a live room and a control with a vocal booth. Any and all suggestions are welcome.

Thanks

WHAT I ALREADY OWN (Listed Below)

Microphones:
AKG D-112
(2) AKG 451B
Audix D6
Shure SM-81
Shure SM-58
(5) Shure SM-57
Shure Beta 57A
Shure Beta 52
Shure Beta 91
(3) Sennheiser MD421
Audio Technica 3035
Rode NTK

Monitors:
Mackie HR-824
Adam A7
KRK V6

Preamps:
API 500VPR 10 Slot Lunchbox w/ External Power Supply
API 3124+
(2) Avedis MA5
(2) A-Designs Audio P-1
(2) Purple Audio Bix Mk
Lachapell Audio 583s
Great River MP-500NV

Headphones:
Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro
Sennheiser HD 280 Pro

Others/Software:
Apple PowerMac G5 Dual 1.8 Processor
Universal Audio UAD-1 Card
Steinberg Cubase SX3
M-Audio Izotope Ozone
Drumagog Platinum
BFD V2.0
Universal Audio UAD-1 Plugins

WHAT I WANT TO INVEST IN (Listed Below)

Interfaces:
Lynx Aurora 16 w/ LT-FW
Apogee Big Ben

Microphones:
Bock Audio 195
Shure SM7B

Monitors:
Yamaha NS-10 (Alesis RA300 Power Amp)

Compressors:
DBX 160A

Miscellaneous:
Presonus Central Station
Tech 21 SansAmp RBI Bass DI
(3) Neutrik NYS-SPP-L1 Patchbay

Others/Software:
(3) Euphonix MC Mix
(1) Euphonix MC Control
Malone Design Works MC Desk
Steinberg Cubase 5
URS Everything EQ and Classic Console Compressors
URS Channel Strip Pro
Sonnox Oxford EQ
Sonnox Oxford Reverb
SoundToys Native Effects V3.1
SoundToys SoundBlender
Waves Renaissance Maxx
Celemony Meleodyne Studio 3
DUY Everpack Bundle & DUY DaD Tape Native
Princeton Digital Plate Reverb

[RyanC]

Looks to me like you have unfortunately been hit by the mic pre bus. You need more nice mics! You have all the utility stuff there, but all said and done that is a lot of gear to have, without a single truly high end microphone. I can highly recommend an Innertube MM2000 if you want something that is both awesome and extremely versatile.

Personally I've realized that a verity of pre's are great for people who have A) a console that offers consistency when you need it, and B) at least 25k worth of mics. I've been down that road myself, and sold all the botique pre's and have been building a mic collection instead of a pre collection.

Also make sure to budget 10k for acoustics if you do the work yourself, or 20+ if you plan to hire someone. Makes a bigger difference than everything else on that list.

For bands I would also invest in a user adjustable headphone system.

[dubrichie]

you don't need the Big Ben, the internal clock in the aurora is fine.

go with the PCI / PCI-E AES-16 to interface the Aurora with your computer instead of Firewire.

get better outboard than the DBX 160A - one or two really nice compressors and EQs for tracking, if you can afford them.

get a much better amp than that Alesis piece of crap, used Brystons can be had for very reasonable prices.

upgrade to UAD-2 quad, if you can.

[matt thomas]

you don't need the big ben

you should use an AES 16 to connect to your G5 (not firewire), as it happens I have one for sale. (pm if interested)

You could probably lose some of the plugins too. If you're getting the URS channel strip you could probably pass on the everything eq an compressor bundle. even then you are probably getting a bit carried away with all those bundles

you've got 3 sets of monitors and are buying another? I would sell the ones you have and get one good pair.

remember cables will cost a lot

remember furniture will cost a lot

acoustic treatment is vital (NOT foam)

hope that helps
narco

[musicguitar]

thank for taking a look... when you say two nice compressors and eq's, do you have any suggestions as to which ones? I was looking at Purple MC77 (but thats based on research, not actually using one)

i am getting the other set of monitors, because I am making an "a" and "b" room. I have two mackie onyx 1640's which will go in the "b" room. I have a mackie control pro also for the "b" room. I was going to put the mackies and krk's in the b studio, and use the ns10's and the adams in studio a.

The other suggestions are great, def am changing the list for the AES16 card, whats the difference between the AES16 and the AES16-SRC?

I've dropped the big ben from the list, seeing as several people including you both have commented that it is not needed, and if I can save the dough i will.

As far as plugin's go. I am a student so I get most not all of these plugins for 50-75% off retail price, which makes picking up a lot look attractive for me. I understand it might be overboard tho.

Also, the comment in regards to microphones, what suggestions do u have for high end mics. I thinks my mics I have cover a lot of ground. I could def. use some nice LDC. I was looking at the CM7, or Peluso stuff. Any suggestions?

Any other thoughts?

Thanks.

[deda]

Think ribbons for a versitile mic from overheads, guitars cabs, and certain ones are great on vocals, hell for almost anything. A pair of ribbons depending on your choice, Coles 4038's, Royer's or the AEA's I understand are great and the most affordable are a must. I can not imagne recording without my ribbons and you will feel the same way I promise, regards ,deda,,

[deda]

I also meant to recommened Disterrsors in the comp department, very versitle when your looking at a min. amount of compressors to work with they are another can't miss Swiss Army knife. Regards ,,deda,,

[cosmodos]

Originally Posted by musicguitar

As far as plugin's go. I am a student so I get most not all of these plugins for 50-75% off retail price, which makes picking up a lot look attractive for me.

Student discounts aren't designed to allow students to get equipment/software for cheap. It's designed to allow students to get equipment/software for cheap for educational purposes. You'll have to buy the full license in order to use the plug-ins for commercial purposes.

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by cosmodos

Student discounts aren't designed to allow students to get equipment/software for cheap. It's designed to allow students to get equipment/software for cheap for educational purposes. You'll have to buy the full license in order to use the plug-ins for commercial purposes.

yeah, I think its only music and music tech students that qualify for educational discounts.

[matt thomas]

Originally Posted by musicguitar

The other suggestions are great, def am changing the list for the AES16 card, whats the difference between the AES16 and the AES16-SRC?

I believe the SRC does realtime Sample Rate Conversion. It is unlikely you will need this.

And as others have stated, typically it is illegal to use student copies for professional use, check with the manufacturers policy.

narco

[Hammer Mark]

I have BLUE's Kiwi and Dragonfly and I'd recommend them for great sounding, versatile LDCs. They are not what most here would consider "high end" -- you'll have to ask someone else about those.

[deda]

Originally Posted by Hammer Mark

I have BLUE's Kiwi and Dragonfly and I'd recommend them for great sounding, versatile LDCs. They are not what most here would consider "high end" -- you'll have to ask someone else about those.

I disagree B.L.U.E. mics I own, Mouse, Dragonfly and Blueberry and have used all have their place in any High End Studio except maybe the Cactus and I'd own one of those if I could get it cheap it's not worth the asking price though. I actually think when it comes to mics splitting hairs on high end would be pricy standards, yes of course, but I've had success with cheap ass Realistic mics in the right spot so I believe High End guys own and use all types of mics from cheap to exspensive. They use what it takes to get the job done. Then you have guys like Frank Zappa that use anything that picks up a sound. I read an article a year or so ago where a well known guitar player got the track he wanted using the mic in his laptop. The laptop just happened to be on at the time so it was an accident I believe how the story went but it proves my point somewhat, regards ,,deda,,

[deda]

Another under rated affordable mic is the AT 4050 and a pair can be a plus for overheads and can be eBayed for 500.00 to 700.00. They are damn good for the money but they perform much better than their price would indicate. If you surf a lot of High End Studio sites you'll see them in almost every studio along with others of the AT 40 series. I have only the AT 4050's so that's all I'll comment on. Regards ,,deda,,

[Drumsound]

Instead of the big gear list spend the money on making a great space. A great sounding room that inspires players will do a ton for your projects. I good designer and a contractor that does what the designer says won't be cheap, but the results could be great.

Then put a bunch of instruments in the space!

[whitepapagold]

Originally Posted by RyanC

Looks to me like you have unfortunately been hit by the mic pre bus. You need more nice mics!.

Exactly. Thread finished. Thats the most ridiculous preamp vs microphone list YET! Its so insane what this stupid place has done to prosumers studios and pocketbooks...

Not one nice microphone on the list...

STOP. Put your wallet back in your pants and go find someone who knows microphones who can help you.

and... STOP reading threads here like they are worth basing purchases off! The lack of resource balance/management in your set up is INCREDIBLE.... And very reflective of this type of internet frenzy mentality.

Seriously, your preamp section reads like an ad for Gearslutz...

[mobilemozart]

faster computer!!! - I've stopped using the G5 Dual 1.8 year ago; IMHO, any Mac Pro 8-Core, perhaps the one that just gets discontinued would be the first thing to get

[matt thomas]

whilst a faster computer would undoubtedly be nice, its not a necessary expense.

I know many top studios still using G5's. (Actually I think possibly all of the top studios I know are still using G5's, although mostly due to the need to buy a new Pro Tools card system if you upgrade, a native system would benefit more but I'd still put my money elsewhere)

narco

[mobilemozart]

Originally Posted by narco

whilst a faster computer would undoubtedly be nice, its not a necessary expense.
narco

I disagree. The latest generation computers are the single most effective way to upgrade any DAW-based studio. I know we're all slutz here and love vintage and analogue and big consoles and stuff.
But being able to open more plug-ins without bouncing stuff down makes a bigger difference.
In my books, after the computer next up would be room treatment and speakers, then a great console.
BTW, any new Mac Pro would be 10 times faster than that old G5:

Updated Mac Pro Benchmarks and Video of Internals - Mac Rumors

[deda]

Originally Posted by whitepapagold

Exactly. Thread finished. Thats the most ridiculous preamp vs microphone list YET! Its so insane what this stupid place has done to prosumers studios and pocketbooks...

Not one nice microphone on the list...

STOP. Put your wallet back in your pants and go find someone who knows microphones who can help you.

and... STOP reading threads here like they are worth basing purchases off! The lack of resource balance/management in your set up is INCREDIBLE.... And very reflective of this type of internet frenzy mentality.

Seriously, your preamp section reads like an ad for Gearslutz...

You are correct in in pointing out that with 66,300 members he may need to buy 66,300 mics to satisfy every posts opinion. But the use of Gearslutz in general and the all important search fuction is the best resource on the internet and in my opinion the best resource period to use in accessing gear performance from High End to Low End, from computers to microphones but this is but one step, accessing information, it must always be followed up with actual hands on and ears open with said gear live and in person and A/B to your liking. This can be hard to do sometimes but this step should not be left out. I am only guessing on this statement and that being if he would have used this resource first as he bought gear from different salesmen he would not have the MicPre to microphone disparity he now has. He would not have bought many of the mics that are now his only choice for recording an upright bass, piano or vocals.

So you are absoulutely correct that Gearslutz with it's 2.5 million posts, it's information and opinions from members can be misused easily. But as stated there is no other resource that comes close for information concerning any of the multitude of recording and live sound renenforcement questions when used properly anywhere in the known universe. Jules idea of a music forum for the dreamers of making music correctly has evolved into a music aficionado masterpiece. The fact that he also brings in for our edification industry giants like Tony Maserati this last 2 weeks is just iceing on the cake.

Musicguitar you are in the right place just use the hell out of the search function as opposed to doing a thread on such important decession's that you are faced with. Post of course on threads that have what you think you need if a post seems worthy. By posting you end up reafirming the posters opinions as well for if it's an old thread and the posters had more repetitions using the gear he might have changed his mind. The beauty of it is all and I mean all of the members and moderators usually answer quickly and freely. The PM function should not be forgotton either in case a response is slow in forth coming but it should be used wisely as well.

While making a case for the greatness of Gearslutz as a member you have a key to the Dungeon, a members only unmoderated, kinda, gem of a forum called "Gear Free Zone-Politics / Serious Social Issues. I recommend it highly to all members to visit the forum from time to time, some never leave and there are some very smart people that reside there and of course some dumb asses as well. It is also a gem of a forum with World Wide participation and with the conundrums we face as Homo-Sapiens now and in the near future it's a nice place to visit that's also full of many varied opinions. It is a nice place to visit but you wouldn't want to live there.

Additionally whitepapagold the insainity you speak of does exisit and is more the norm rather than the exception. But it is not a stupid place, it's a brilliant place and just because to many make rash unsound decisions on a whim shouldn't deminish it's brillance. Maybe every moderator should put a sticky at the top of each forum stateing "USE WISELY" and "NOT Responsble for ANY STUPID Decisions Based On Information Within".

In closing I say "Hat's Off and All Should Bow Toward's London to Jules and His Splendid Creation", regards ,,deda,,

[piano]

The world is FULL of studios. But hey, if you love it.

You need a good vocal mic. Lots of choices ..... personally I love my Lawson 251 and 47 variations.

Then you need an 8 core mac to process the plugs you get.

Have fun shopping!

[emfrank72]

Maybe I'm crazy, but I don't think the Bock 151 is a crappy vocal mic. I'd love to pick one up myself. I would recommend the UAD2 card and get rid of the UAD1 assuming your G5 can use PCIe cards.

[ing23]

Alternatively this desk would suit the Euphonix Artist series very well.
The picture shows the ProMedia desk, a larger desk is also available called the ProEdit.

[EliasGwinn]

Originally Posted by Drumsound

Instead of the big gear list spend the money on making a great space. A great sounding room that inspires players will do a ton for your projects. I good designer and a contractor that does what the designer says won't be cheap, but the results could be great.

Then put a bunch of instruments in the space!

+1 (x1000)

(...this coming from an engineer at Benchmark who makes mic-pres and converters....spend your money on your acoustic spaces and musical instruments. )

[musicguitar]

Thanks for all the replies. I have been away for awhile working.

The room I am building will be in my house that I am going to purchase in May upon graduation from school. I am allotting $12,465 to construction costs of the studio. Weird number, I know. I am well schooled in construction, so I will save a lot of money doing it myself. I've been reading Gerv.'s book about studio acoustic/construction.

To comment, I have a lot of great instruments, I just don't list them because I didn't find it necessary. I collect amps, I'm a guitar player at heart (orange, hiwatt, vox, mesa, marshall, fender, etc). I have several amazing drum sets (dw 80's kit being my favorite). I just wanted to expand my passion for music engineering not the playing side.

I understand I'm getting flammed for the 500 series preamps, understandable. But for the price I paid for them I couldn't get anything to come nearly as close and I have had a lot of bad bad bad bad pre's in the past. I did demo all my units, I never buy anything blindly without first researching, in addition to getting a demo in my own recording environment.

As for the plug-in's I was unaware of the student thing for commerical use. I am a music student as well (triple major: finance, economics, and music technology). I appreciate the comments on this.

I am unsure as to why I am getting some ppl saying "Not one nice microphone on the list..." Am I crazy, because I thought all of the mic's I have can make and have made some really great records (for me and many others). Obviously I understand that my vocal mic selection is lacking, but thats why I'm hear to evaluate options and try things out.

If I had to get some LDC for vocal what are some other choices. I'm hearing Peluso 2247se, Tele ak47, but I have not tried them (and can't comment until I do). The Bock Audio was based on a recording done for a roadrunner records band (sinch) by a gearslutz member (drew maz.) with a Soundelux 195, the reason I wanted to get a Bock Audio because it is the original/remake of that mic.

Any thoughts on LDC's beyond what i've gotten from many posters. I am going to try and get a bunch of choices and then demo them out.

Thanks,
Sean

[EliasGwinn]

Will you be focusing on any genre(s), or is your goal to be a general purpose recording studio?

Also, where will the studio be located (City, State)?

ps. At the risk of scuffing my shoes on a dead horse, I strongly recommend appropriating as much of your 'studio' budget as possible to the construction, including wiring the studio with star-quad balanced lines. The reason I stress this is because you can always add a mic, pre, compressor, etc, but renovating your studio is a messy affair, and will bring everything to a grinding halt. The studio is the single most important "piece of gear" you will be using, and upgrading it later may not be a viable option. IMHO...

[musicguitar]

The goal of the studio is general purpose, I tend to do a lot of rock/pop bands now, but I do the occassional R&B, Rap, Metal.

The studio will be located in Malvern, PA. Or Coatesville, PA (outside Philadelphia). It depends on where I find an affordable house with enough space to build the studio right.

I have factored in wiring (did a lot of pricing on redco.com) with Mogami spools and what not. I am building all the cables myself (XLR to XLR, XLR to TRS, etc), as well as wiring a snake myself (saves me a lot of money).

I am focusing efforts on the studio gear alone now, because I do not have a location as of yet until I purchase the house. Then I will be focusing a lot on the design and function of the studio.

Thanks for the replies, keep em coming.

[EliasGwinn]

Again, at the risk of angering any equestrians... Being a general purpose studio, I would recommend investing in a wide range of MI (musical instruments). The guitar and drum gear are great, but I would consider adding at least a nice baby-grand piano, and also Hammond B3, synths, percussion, efx pedals, rhodes, wurlitzer, etc.

This is the producer-side of me talking, but I believe that musical instruments create a broader sound palette then mics, pres, compressors, etc. Don't get me wrong, great recording gear is essential to making high quality recordings. However, more importantly, I believe that records are about the music more then the recording. Great music comes from great musicians creating art in a great space. A broad range of MI puts the tools in the artists hands.

But this is just my personal preference, and this is a very subjective matter.

Good luck...

[RyanC]

Hey Sean-

I can only speak for myself here, but I didn't mean to flame anyone or turn this into some sort of indictment of gearslutz. I have bought some of the stuff that is big here on GS, and found it just didn't do it for me (u87 for ex) and other things that seem to be total GS sleepers and loved those things and use them all the time (1" 16 track tape for ex), that is life as a gearslut. And it sounds like you have done quite a bit of research, so cool.

IMHO you need some mics that are not Chinese. Don't get me wrong, I use Chinese stuff all the time and they offer pretty good value, but you will want some real high end US/Aus/Eu mics.

Impossible for anyone to say over the internet what mics will work for you; for me, I am often the engineer and the session musician, so mics that are no brainier always sound good, but not boring are my cup of tea. A pair of well maintained k47 m49's and a soundfield would be great for my working style. I have a pair of cad vx2's and the mag mic, and right now the one I would add would be the soundfield.

If you are a tinkerer and like to have many different options (and think that you can convince bands to take the time) I would look at a blue bottle, a bunch of caps, and some of the red bodies to be able use some of your different caps. Or start with the red body, work you way to the blue. Thats a cool system and kindof like the 500 for mics.

The only downside with that is now you have to figure out per vocalist which cap/body/pre is ideal, and with your pre collection, and say 5 caps and 2 bodies, it will take quite a while to get through all ~150 options. . .

[warhead]

Originally Posted by musicguitar

The room I am building will be in my house that I am going to purchase in May upon graduation from school. I am allotting $12,465 to construction costs of the studio. Weird number, I know. I am well schooled in construction, so I will save a lot of money doing it myself. I've been reading Gerv.'s book about studio acoustic/construction.

Sean, I have a very good friend that I list as a free consultant on my website under Acoustics, named Jeff Hedback. Jeff has done rooms for friends and customers of mine, and also gives me advice on treating my own space. He is able to help with planning and construction on a 'for hire' basis, but if you have a plan you'd like to submit to him to discuss he can give you commentary on it and help avoid pitfalls, whether you hire him or not. He is the nicest, most non-pushy / soft spoken guy you could ever imagine: another great reason I promote him...!

I cannot stress this enough: the room matters so much and it's nice to know you have budgeted for it...! But be sure somebody out there takes a look at your plans, or that you bring somebody in who knows the pitfalls of construction and the process to (A) save money and (B) make effective use of the money you spend.

It's amazing what little steps you can overlook that compromise a room's effectiveness.

War

[whitepapagold]

Originally Posted by deda

Additionally whitepapagold the insainity you speak of does exisit and is more the norm rather than the exception. But it is not a stupid place, it's a brilliant place and just because to many make rash unsound decisions on a whim shouldn't deminish it's brillance. Maybe every moderator should put a sticky at the top of each forum stateing "USE WISELY" and "NOT Responsble for ANY STUPID Decisions Based On Information Within".

In closing I say "Hat's Off and All Should Bow Toward's London to Jules and His Splendid Creation", regards ,,deda,,

The problem is I remember, as I assume you do being around in 2005, what it used to be like. There was always a dynamic of internet BS but this place has become a wh@rehouse and MOST of the peoples opinions that I respect and got me here to begin with... are gone.

So though I agree that Jules had created an amazing place, its is falling to the ignorant masses and its popularity will be its own demise as far as legitimacy goes. I used to read with interest, now mostly I can't believe how many people are misrepresenting themselves, their knowledge and their studio...

Everyone has to start somewhere but the problem is this forum used to NOT be gorged with beginners, prosumers and gearpimps galore. They were always here, but it was more 50/50... Now its 95/5.

Ive also seen threads and posts disappear because they don't help sales of certain manufacturers... The money value of this site has killed its legitimacy. Everytime I ask a real question that you would have to have some knowledge to answer, no or minimal responses but if I buy a Pacifica and want to hear what serial numbers other owners have, 100 people will unrack their preamps to join the club...

This place is now one kick away from Harmony-Central...