converter/interface upgrade

[Pchicago]

Thought I'd toss this question into a deeper knowledge base.

I write songs with a friend, we've been at it for a long time and have backlog of stuff we'd like to record in a more serious way, something beyond the demo attitude and all..with an eye towards a few albums for small release etc. We play all of the instruments so, for the most part, we are usually doing single tracks at a time..when we track our drums we need 4 inputs.

Been using various Firewire interfaces over the years, most recently Alesis io 14/26 products, which have worked well. I find the conversion to be pretty damn good.

We have a decent collection of mics, our best preamp right now is an Apogee mini mp which I purchased used recently.

Anyhow, I'm wondering what a decent upgrade would be insofar as, making a significant converter upgrade?

I've done well in the used market in Chicago and would not think twice about looking for a pro quality system that has a few years of movement towards "obsolete" on it.

But, it has to represent a significant sonic step..upwards from a late model consumer piece. I'm not against a great sounding Firewire thing either

I've looked at some the various middle of the road to higher end consumer stuff products..and I'm not convinced that I'd be getting much more than the Alesis io14/26 gives us.

Any suggestions? price range..hmm, 900 to 1400 american for a used system with 2 to four ins..outs? I'm realizing now that it would be nice to have more than one stereo pair of outs. Ideally..at least 4 ins is probably key as we do drums.

I'm not a newb to recording but as far as the - low end of the high end range - (used)..no clue.


Iinput appreciated

p.s. I'm intrigued by the Apogee duet as far as conversion but I'm not sure it's enough as far as ins outs.

[desotoslo]

go for a used Ensemble. you can find one in your price range regularly in Ebay.

[Pchicago]

desotoslo,

Thanks, been eyeballing the Ensemble a bit.

Wondering what else there is, if anything, in that range. 1400 is my top end and would require me to sell my bicycle.

Are there any other products to consider in the lower end of the range?

Anyone?

Thanks

Pete

[Jimbo]

The Big Three in this range:
- Apogee Ensemble
- RME Fireface
- Metric Halo (Mac only)

I have two Metric Halo 2882 units and am very satisfied.

[space2012]

Originally Posted by Pchicago

making a significant converter upgrade?
..., it has to represent a significant sonic step..upwards from a late model consumer piece.
....Any suggestions? price range..hmm, 900 to 1400 american for a used system with 2 to four ins..outs? I'm realizing now that it would be nice to have more than one stereo pair of outs. Ideally..at least 4 ins is probably key

from A/B listening tests, i think:

8 channel cheap:
behringer ada8000, or motu 2408mk2

better:
m-audio profire 2626 in stand alone mode.
apogee AD16x
lucid
lynx aurora
protools hd 192io
mytec 8x192

the best AD:
Weiss ADC2 MK2
Manley SLAM! Digital

best DAC:
universal audio 2192
Weiss DAC1 mk2
Mytek 8x192

best ASIO Drivers:
Lynx AES16 pci or pcie
second best ASIO:
RME Hdsp9632 pci or pcie, not firewire/usb.
one of the best midi drivers:
RME

best wordclock:
antelope 10m + ocx
teac esoteric atomic clock
second best:
any temperature controlled oscilaltor
like:
Drawmer M-Clock TXCO
or Antelope ocx
or Mutec iclock
or dCS 995/998
or...
3rd best:
any clock arround 5 to 50ppm
like:
rosendalh 5ppm
lucid genx192 25ppm
Alesis Ai-2 50ppm

best digital cables:
pure silver
second best:
99.997% OFC silver plated
3rd best:
99.997% OFC is good enough for 44.1/48khz

most audio transparent software:
Sonar 8 32-bits with 64-bit engine active.
second best:
Nuendo/Cubase

most cpu amd/intel optimized software:
Sonar 8

most complete features in a software:
?

each machines makes the sound a bit or less diferent, and that comes down to personal taste.

[Pchicago]

Thanks folks..Space, nice rundown.

I'm gonna take a wild shot and say that the Apogee preamps on the Ensemble are probably better than something like the RME Fireface or the Metric Halo preamps?

I guess I should say that I'm on a MAC G5 dual 2.0 running Cubase in Tiger 10.4.11

Wondering about any issues with later model hardware..Not the fastest box on earth right now but it serves my needs. Trying to avoid going through a computer upgrade.

[desotoslo]

Yea, ensemble preamps are better than FF800 and 2882, easily. They are the same as Duet, and I have duet... I'd classify them as being transparent and a bit punchy even.

the 2882 preamps are good, but don't have a lot of gain (40 db) so they get noisy fast, and won't work for quiet sources.

with FF800 the conversion is on par with 2882, but the preamps are weak.

the ensemble is way more versatile, and the conversion is arguably better.

if you can swing the 14-1500, and have a mac, you'd be happy with the ensemble, judging from your description for a quality interface with good conversion and preamps all around.

but hey, there is another one worth checking out: TC Electronic Studiokonnekt 48. search for it on gearslutz. the mac driver stability is a bit of a question mark, though supposedly it's good. PC is more stable it seems. the conversion and preamps on that unit are both good and it can be found without the remote for $800.

another option would be to get an Echo Audiofire8 or 12 for about $4-500, and just pick up some outboard pres. The conversion in those units are supposedly very good (I'm receiving my Audiofire8 in a couple of days, and will compare it to my Duet), and the drivers are solid. There was a comparison thread somewhere where the Audiofire8 or 12 was compared to the Rosetta, and a lot of the people guessed the Rosetta wrong, or couldn't tell which was which. Echo knows converters.

I got the AF8 for about a bit over $400 (a bargain!) and I'm going to pick up some more outboard pres to go with it. I think it will be a good system.

So while I don't know exactly how the conversion on the Audiofire stuff is yet, I would recommend that route, personally. With Ensemble, you are paying for the Apogee name to a certain extent. Echo has bad marketing, [so(?)] their products are cheap. I wonder where they are assembled though. Apogee is built in the USA... and that's worth something.

Bang for the buck, studiokonnekt is the best deal, me thinks. It has 4 good preamps, lots of ins/outs, very useable DSP. Echo converters are also very good, but you'll have to buy outboard pres (Audiofire8 only comes with 2, and I don't know if they're any good, yet, though some people say they're just neutral) ... buying 4 good outboard pres easily adds another $700+ on the price... so you're already looking at like $1200. These are just estimations.

that said, studiokonnekt is assembled in Thailand. take that with a grain of salt. it means something to me. I'd rather have a product built in america (ensemble) or Japan, Europe... in the long run, I think it's a better investment. (Again, not sure where Echo is assembled... I took a chance on it.)

desoto


ps: selling bike = suck.

[Lex_Laws]

I love my Ensemble! great pres and conversion... of course, this statement doesn't really help you much... but I thought I would share

[Pchicago]

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