Voiceover work: What to use?

[James Lehmann]

Originally Posted by The Dutch Master

ANY mic sounds good on The Don

Well, in that clip it looks like he's speaking into a Brauner (VMA?) through a Pauli SuperScreen pop-shield.

So yeah - the Gearslut creed states that if we buy exactly this gear we will sound exactly like him! Isn't that how it works?

[VoiceManMike]

FYI Warner Bro. Animation uses TLM 103's.

[seanmccoy]

Originally Posted by VoiceManMike

FYI Warner Bro. Animation uses TLM 103's.

Interesting. I recorded Bruce Campbell here for WB's "The Ant Bully" a couple of years ago and they specifically requested a U-87. Maybe they've switched, or maybe they just assumed most outside studios are more likely to have a U-87 than a 103. But in actuality, literally every pro animation or game company I've done work for who had a preference has asked for a U-87.

[nd33]

Originally Posted by jindrich

as dog chao says, gear for VO doesnt matter.

what does matter is having a pro, well designed, great sounding, nice looking, aconditioned vocal booth, a comfortable lounge and nice furniture. also, a good tea machine (I mean electric water boiler, teakane, nice cups, all sorts of tea, etc)

as for mics, senh 416 and neumann U87 are the gold standards. quality closed cans are insdispensable (akg, senh, beyer). As for the rest, as long as it's decent equipment, pretty anything will do. An apogee ensemble for instance, gives you everything you need in one cheap box.






edit: i find it funny to hear people asking about which mic for VO, when the booth's door alone is going to cost $4k.

Hey guys, here's something that's a little confusing to me.
When people talk of recording voice overs it's often said the room needs to be quite dry as the sound will often be very compressed when it's on tv or radio, bringing up the room sound.
The recording room in the pictures above looks fairly large for a booth and doesn't seem to have much coverage of treatment on the walls. Surely you'd get quite a bit of room sound in such a place? I'd have thought you'd have to have ALOT more coverage of room treatment to be able to get good VO results in a room that size...

Love to hear some comments on this!

[musicmatt]

Acoustics play a big part in getting that tight, crisp, compressed vocal sound that is "oh so popular". After that goes Mic-Pre-Compression-Limiter.

Get a Shure SM7b or if you can afford it a Neumann (vintage or TLM doesn't matter IMO). API, Great River, Chandler, Neve are top Pre's. Use an L2 or equivalent.

You might as well invest in a Portable Vocal booth like the one's they have at Real Traps. They'll deaden your environment and make it usable.

[gorillainthemix]

Originally Posted by nd33

Hey guys, here's something that's a little confusing to me.
When people talk of recording voice overs it's often said the room needs to be quite dry as the sound will often be very compressed when it's on tv or radio, bringing up the room sound.
The recording room in the pictures above looks fairly large for a booth and doesn't seem to have much coverage of treatment on the walls. Surely you'd get quite a bit of room sound in such a place? I'd have thought you'd have to have ALOT more coverage of room treatment to be able to get good VO results in a room that size...

Love to hear some comments on this!

As you can tell there is very little "hard" material in there. From the carpet to the table and the side walls. I bet it sounds very good in there, even when you move farther away from the mic.

Originally Posted by James Lehmann

Well, in that clip it looks like he's speaking into a Brauner (VMA?) through a Pauli SuperScreen pop-shield.

So yeah - the Gearslut creed states that if we buy exactly this gear we will sound exactly like him! Isn't that how it works?

I think that's a Manley Reference C. I have also seen pictures of him behind a 416

I come across some voices every now that apply some kind of vocal/mic technique and it's like they have some kind of "natural" compression to the way they speak. I can't explain it any other way, but the voice-over file looks as if it's compressed and it even sounds like it. Regardless of how they speak...it's usually the good ones too.

[Franz]

Yes, it's a Manley Reference C. That's Don's favourite mic, and the one he uses in his own studio.
Does anyone here have experience of that mic for VO's?

[Franz]

Originally Posted by nd33

Hey guys, here's something that's a little confusing to me.
When people talk of recording voice overs it's often said the room needs to be quite dry as the sound will often be very compressed when it's on tv or radio, bringing up the room sound.
The recording room in the pictures above looks fairly large for a booth and doesn't seem to have much coverage of treatment on the walls. Surely you'd get quite a bit of room sound in such a place? I'd have thought you'd have to have ALOT more coverage of room treatment to be able to get good VO results in a room that size...

Love to hear some comments on this!

The smaller the room, the deader it has to be. In a vocal booth, the walls are closer. And with closer walls the room responds louder,
and in a higher frequency that will affect the voice much more. In a larger studio room, you don't need those extreme absorbers.

[3rd&4thT]

Originally Posted by Franz

Yes, it's a Manley Reference C. That's Don's favourite mic, and the one he uses in his own studio.
Does anyone here have experience of that mic for VO's?

The Manley Reference C was chosen for Don by the engineer who set up his home studio. Don himself paid little attention to the choice.

The industry standard remains the U87, with the 416 and SM7B being good for certain niche assignments.

The TLM 103 seems to be the fallback mic for people who can't afford the U87, but they'd be better off with a Bock Audio 195, a Violet Designs Global Standard, a Charter Oak E700 or any of half a dozen other reasonably priced mics.

Originally Posted by The Dutch Master

I come across some voices every now that apply some kind of vocal/mic technique and it's like they have some kind of "natural" compression to the way they speak. I can't explain it any other way, but the voice-over file looks as if it's compressed and it even sounds like it. Regardless of how they speak...it's usually the good ones too.

That's not an accident: it's a function of skill and experience, like a VO's ability to shave two seconds off a 60 second spot if asked, without consulting a stopwatch.

The market now places little or no value on these professional skills, and most clients don't understand them even when explained to them. You can process the levels so they are even and change the running time digitally. Who needs humans who know what they're doing?

Cheers,
3rd&4thT

[gorillainthemix]

Originally Posted by 3rd&4thT

That's not an accident: it's a function of skill and experience, like a VO's ability to shave two seconds off a 60 second spot if asked, without consulting a stopwatch.

The market now places little or no value on these professional skills, and most clients don't understand them even when explained to them. You can process the levels so they are even and change the running time digitally. Who needs humans who know what they're doing?

Cheers,
3rd&4thT

very true.
The people I record who have been doing it for 10-20 years can indeed shave off 1 or 2 seconds like that with ease. Simple changes in breathing, articulation and tone of voice can do this without having to actually speed up your pace a lot.

[Franz]

Originally Posted by 3rd&4thT

The Manley Reference C was chosen for Don by the engineer who set up his home studio. Don himself paid little attention to the choice.

Haha! Manley made a big deal about his choice... I would too, if I manufactured a microphone!

[toxostoma rufum]

The Speck EQs are great, and I use a Speck 5.0 Mic Pre with my TLM 103. The 103 can be bright, but it doesn't have that boxy flat sound that I find with Sure and ATs...especially after processing. You can do a whole lot better than a 103 for not much more money, or you can have a 103 and just work with it. I also find it sounds radically different with different mic placements and preamps, which is a good thing, imo...you're not stuck with one typical sound.

[Doc Mixwell]

Originally Posted by toxostoma rufum

The 103 can be bright,

Extremely.

Check out the Microtech Gefell M930. Its a MUCH deeper sounding, more balanced microphone. I feel as though it is a FAR superior transformer less design to the TLM.

[VoiceManMike]

Originally Posted by seanmccoy

Interesting. I recorded Bruce Campbell here for WB's "The Ant Bully" a couple of years ago and they specifically requested a U-87. Maybe they've switched, or maybe they just assumed most outside studios are more likely to have a U-87 than a 103. But in actuality, literally every pro animation or game company I've done work for who had a preference has asked for a U-87.

Well, I was surprised too, but I'm sure they use U-87 there too.

[seanmccoy]

Originally Posted by Franz

Yes, it's a Manley Reference C. That's Don's favourite mic, and the one he uses in his own studio.
Does anyone here have experience of that mic for VO's?

You do know that Don passed away recently, right?

[DSD_Mastering]

Originally Posted by seanmccoy

But in actuality, literally every pro animation or game company I've done work for who had a preference has asked for a U-87.

Every game we've done here has been through a U87


Regards,

[cubivore]

Originally Posted by seanmccoy

Interesting! Out of curiosity, what didn't you like about the KSM44?

i used it for several years and just grew out of it. it's got a very neutral sound, but not enough beef. it sounded okay, but just no magic and picked up too much room and brutally showed any off-mic behaviour. i also always used the rolloff on the mic and at the pre and i think that sucked out some life. anyway, all i do is VO so i figured at some point i'm gonna have to do some ADR for live-action again and needed an indoor SDC for this purpose. i picked the schoeps and did several A/B tests. they both have their charms, but the cmc641 is so rich sounding, but proximity is more of a problem that requires subtle adjustments on the VAs behalf. i'm happy with the sound at this point, but i'd really like to get a nice LDC, like the gefells or something. i'm just waiting on my bailout check...

[seanmccoy]

Originally Posted by cubivore

i used it for several years and just grew out of it. it's got a very neutral sound, but not enough beef. it sounded okay, but just no magic and picked up too much room and brutally showed any off-mic behaviour. i also always used the rolloff on the mic and at the pre and i think that sucked out some life. anyway, all i do is VO so i figured at some point i'm gonna have to do some ADR for live-action again and needed an indoor SDC for this purpose. i picked the schoeps and did several A/B tests. they both have their charms, but the cmc641 is so rich sounding, but proximity is more of a problem that requires subtle adjustments on the VAs behalf. i'm happy with the sound at this point, but i'd really like to get a nice LDC, like the gefells or something. i'm just waiting on my bailout check...

Thanks for the info. I'm going to add one super-quiet mic to my arsenal for uber-wispy speakers, and the KSM44 is one of the options.

[matt82aust]

I have used many different setups and always been happy with the result i can pull from them. Some of them are

416 -> Amek 9098 ->Bomb Factory Fairchild

Rode NT1A -> Joe Meek VCQ1

AT4050 -> SSL XLogic Alpha Channel -> Smack or BF76

Currently i am

AKG C214 -> Universal Audio DCS -> Renaisance Channel

My point is, each of these setups have a wide flavour of sounds, but all have been extremely usable and yielded great results. I couldn't even tell you what my favourite configuration is.

[Dayo]

While this thread seems to have morphed into a discussion on voiceover recording techniques, would any care to share their thoughts on recording and mixing female voices?

It's always seemed to me that guys are easier to record, but when it comes to the girls, I must admit I struggle to get that network sound.

Any general tips for recording and mixing female voiceovers - especially those with bright voices? EQ and compression? Is the L2 a no no?

And apart from the SM7B, are there any other mics that are favoured on female v/o's?

Thanks!

[asap audio]

Females can be tough to record. I use an LDC, have them talk across the mic, rather than straight into the capsule. Also, you can use a foam pop filter to surpress some of the 10k+ sibilants.

I'll compress voice seperate from the music. Females can be very expressive. Sometimes I'll manually raise or lower the voice level on a word or syllable to avoid a big spike.

On the music track, I usually dip EQ in the 1k to 4k area to allow the voice to cut through the mix. Don't compress the music at any stage.

I'll use a touch of hard limiting on the final mixdown.

Works for me.

[3rd&4thT]

Originally Posted by asap audio

Don't compress the music at any stage.
I'll use a touch of hard limiting on the final mixdown.
Works for me.

I'm not surprised.

M/S has possibilities. Compress the voice M and limit the music S. Worth exploring.

Cheers,
3rd&4thT

[cubivore]

Originally Posted by Dayo

While this thread seems to have morphed into a discussion on voiceover recording techniques, would any care to share their thoughts on recording and mixing female voices?

i think this can be helped with starting with the right mic. if you're broke like me you probably don't have a lot of options, but that's one reason i switched to the schoeps. it really made the thin, sibilant lady voices much thicker and less airy. i also preferred using a solid state pre to a tube one for more edge and definition. this is one small, but significant changed that's helped me at least.

[Dayo]

Originally Posted by asap audio

Females can be tough to record. I use an LDC, have them talk across the mic, rather than straight into the capsule. Also, you can use a foam pop filter to surpress some of the 10k+ sibilants.

I'll compress voice seperate from the music. Females can be very expressive. Sometimes I'll manually raise or lower the voice level on a word or syllable to avoid a big spike.

On the music track, I usually dip EQ in the 1k to 4k area to allow the voice to cut through the mix. Don't compress the music at any stage.

I'll use a touch of hard limiting on the final mixdown.

Works for me.

Thanks for the input. I sometimes find that using a foam pop shield can make sibilance worse since the overall upper mids and highs are dulled somewhat, but the piercing peaky sibilants cut through the foam like a knife. I guess it depend where the nasty peaks lie.

Be very interested to thoughts on general EQ "go to" settings for female FVO's.

[gorillainthemix]

honestly I don't do anything drastically different to female voices. I try to found the "hum"-area and scoop some out there, and maybe go easy on the highs but other than that it's pretty straight-forward.


The "Go-To" setting is usually a 80-100 Hz High Pass, 200-300 Hz dip with a wide Q, high shelf boost around 2-3 kHz and perhaps a small peak at 11-13 kHz. This is a very general preset. I have 3 go-to EQs (plug-ins):
1. Focusrite - I like it because it's very "sharp" and penetrating. Perfect for commercials, but it's very sensitive. Push it too much and it will crap on your sound.
2. MDW - Great sound, easy interface and works well on basically anything.
3. Sonnox - Smooth, precise and you can really "push" it without sounding distorted or too "digital".

For instance if I give it a high shelf boost with Focusrite, 2-3 dB will do it..anything further and you'll start hearing cracks etc. With the Sonnox I can probably go up 5-6 dB and it will still sound fine. That's what I mean with "pushing" it.

[VoiceManMike]

Originally Posted by Dayo

... would any care to share their thoughts on recording and mixing female voices?

Try a ribbon mic, they are more forgiving on the gal's. If you can get your hands on an RCA KU-3A this would be the preferred mic but a Royer R-121 should do just fine.

[Dayo]

Originally Posted by VoiceManMike

Try a ribbon mic, they are more forgiving on the gal's. If you can get your hands on an RCA KU-3A this would be the preferred mic but a Royer R-121 should do just fine.

Wow that looks like a very interesting mic; certainly not something I'd considered. I'm wondering if it will be a good match with my Fearn VT1 pre? I must do some digging around.

[Dayo]

Originally Posted by VoiceManMike

Try a ribbon mic, they are more forgiving on the gal's. If you can get your hands on an RCA KU-3A this would be the preferred mic but a Royer R-121 should do just fine.

It looks a lovely mic, but Doug Fearn tends to think the signal won't be hot enough for v/o work. Shame.

I did discover I had a ribbon mic in my arsenal though - a Beyer M260 - which actually sounds fabulous, although not quite hot enough for the kind of up close and personal v/o work that we both do here. It's been my talkback mic for donkey's years - off to ebay with I think.

[VoiceManMike]

Originally Posted by Dayo

It looks a lovely mic, but Doug Fearn tends to think the signal won't be hot enough for v/o work. Shame.

I did discover I had a ribbon mic in my arsenal though - a Beyer M260 - which actually sounds fabulous, although not quite hot enough for the kind of up close and personal v/o work that we both do here. It's been my talkback mic for donkey's years - off to ebay with I think.

I use one almost everyday, it is plenty hot enough. They Beyer might be a good start but the Royer would be a better choice, or if you want to bust your budget an AEA R44. If you need more gain the AEA TRP - The Ribbon Pre will jack up with 83 dB of gain.

[TVPostSound]

Well, in that clip it looks like he's speaking into a Brauner (VMA?) through a Pauli SuperScreen pop-shield.

So yeah - the Gearslut creed states that if we buy exactly this gear we will sound exactly like him! Isn't that how it works?

Don used a 416 up until a couple of years before his passing.

I never "worked", when Don was in for VO, I set the level, and record, he did all the work.
The room (with a 416) didn't even matter.

So in my eyes, it's not the mic, it's not the room, it's the talent.

A perfect room, with a $5,000 mic will not make a bad VO talent sound good.