Voiceover work: What to use?

[DSD_Mastering]

We do VO work mainly for the gaming industry. We just finished a 12-CD set for meditation and do quite a bit of audio books and such.
We have 3 go to mics that we use... U87, RE20 and SM7. We mainly have 2 pre's that we use... a GR and a Digital Audio Denmark. I've also used the Digi Pre.
What makes the difference.... the acoustics in our rooms!


Regards,

[feck]

Regarding needing a proper room, what about an iso booth? My 3x5 Whisper Room is pretty damn dead. Any reasons not to use that?

[3rd&4thT]

Originally Posted by feck

Regarding needing a proper room, what about an iso booth? My 3x5 Whisper Room is pretty damn dead. Any reasons not to use that?

Only photos to impress potential clients. If it produces the sound you want, that's enough.

Cheers,
3rd&4thT

[VoiceManMike]

Originally Posted by 3rd&4thT

Only photos to impress potential clients. If it produces the sound you want, that's enough.

And if you like to sweat.

[jindrich]

Originally Posted by feck

Regarding needing a proper room, what about an iso booth? My 3x5 Whisper Room is pretty damn dead. Any reasons not to use that?

Clients paying for VO aren't teenager bands or your average R&R pals, but corporate people (usually well dressed and that includes ladies on a suit) and they expect a professional facility throughout. Let's not forget they're paying 100/hr besides whatever the VO talent charges.
That means they expect a nice looking and tidy place with a comfortable lounge, clean toilets, design furniture etc etc.

As for the booth, it's not enough for it to sound properly, it also has to be decently sized, well iluminated and comfortable enough so that it allows the VO talent to relax and feel free from constraint, so he/she can thus concentrate in doing his/her job. Clean air, ventilation and a constant temperature and humidity are as important as the sound, remember the session might span to several hours.
Therefore the air conditioning has to be top notch as it will be running during the sessions, and guess what kind of totally silent aircon caters to that?

There's no other way than to have the studio professionally designed and built, from acoustics, to aircon, to overall appearence.

If you don't provide it all, the studio next door will.

(That's why I said before that gear doesnt matter. It certainly does, but it's taken for granted and the last piece on the chain.)

[James Lehmann]

Originally Posted by jindrich

Clients paying for VO aren't teenager bands or your average R&R pals, but corporate people (usually well dressed and that includes ladies on a suit) and they expect a professional facility throughout. Let's not forget they're paying 100/hr besides whatever the VO talent charges.
That means they expect a nice looking and tidy place with a comfortable lounge, clean toilets, design furniture etc etc.

As for the booth, it's not enough for it to sound properly, it also has to be decently sized, well iluminated and comfortable enough so that it allows the VO talent to relax and feel free from constraint, so he/she can thus concentrate in doing his/her job. Clean air, ventilation and a constant temperature and humidity are as important as the sound, remember the session might span to several hours.
Therefore the air conditioning has to be top notch as it will be running during the sessions, and guess what kind of totally silent aircon caters to that?

There's no other way than to have the studio professionally designed and built, from acoustics, to aircon, to overall appearence.

If you don't provide it all, the studio next door will.

(That's why I said before that gear doesnt matter. It certainly does, but it's taken for granted and the last piece on the chain.)

Score on that quote in its entirety, especially the part about not suffocating the talent in a stifling, poky little booth you can hardly stand up in with no fresh air circulation! Been there, done that!

Unfortunately though, as so often happens on Forums, this thread is diverging because the OP first posted a very generalised title (and rather confusingly in the 'High End' Forum too) but then followed it up with this statement and no indication of budget:

Originally Posted by old_skul

My wife is a voiceover talent and we're putting together a home studio... which is my little basement room dedicated to recording my various band projects.

So in reality we're now having two discussions:

1) "Voice-Over work - what to use [in a fully professional v/o facility]?"

2) "What bits and pieces could I use for my home studio that would enable me to do a better job on the sort of v/o work that doesn't require the above than my current rock-music equipped basement?"

Maybe we should indicate which one we're responding to in subsequent posts...

As for the third and rather monotonous sub-thread along the lines of "It's the talent, stupid", I think here on a serious gear Forum we can take that as a given can't we? Is it really necessary to keep restating this rather obvious truth? When people ask questions on Forums like this it's surely taken as read that their question is prefaced by "Given that I have something worth recording, and according to my budget which is $... what mics (for example) would you recommend I try out and why?"

[3rd&4thT]

Originally Posted by 3rd&4thT

Only photos to impress potential clients. If it produces the sound you want, that's enough.

Let me clarify. For home studios, a fabric shower stall will suffice. They are also common in NY casting and talent agency facilities.

Any number of pro studios in Manhattan use prefab meat lockers, in which VO talent can thrive quite well for two hours or more. A remarkable number of studios here with luxurious client facilities have gone under, so spending money on lovely rooms is no guarantee of competitive survival..

Cheers,
3rd&4thT

[seanmccoy]

Originally Posted by 3rd&4thT

Your preamp should complement the mic, but if you get a fast mic and a fast preamp, you may wind up with more mouth clicks, saliva bubbles, etc. You're not recording jangling keys here.

Hmm, interesting. First time I've heard that mentioned. Any recommendations for slower mics and pres that you also consider well-suited to VO?

[TVPostSound]

250Hz dip, 2k shelf boost (maybe a little peak at 11k-13k)

With a 416?? Sounds like you're trying to make up for the room.

[3rd&4thT]

Originally Posted by seanmccoy

Hmm, interesting. First time I've heard that mentioned. Any recommendations for slower mics and pres that you also consider well-suited to VO?

Um, I tend to think of what to avoid. I once made the mistake of trying a 414 through a perfectly fine Grace preamp - that was no fun at all, though dogs across the river in New Jersey seemed to like it..

OTOH, if you run a 47 clone through a particularly thick tube preamp, you may wind up with sludge. EQ'ing the results will only give you heavily-EQ'd sludge. A transient modifier plugin may help, but at this point you're going the long way around.

Avoid the extremes and you should be fine.

Cheers,
3rd&4thT

[seanmccoy]

Okay. I was just curious because I've been working on a project with a female speaker who produces the highest number of mouth clicks and pops of anybody I've ever recorded. I've been using a UMT70S through a Grace 101, and the vocal quality is very good, but the cleaning process is driving me nuts. My logic circuits can't jive with the idea that a slower mic or pre would somehow magically ignore some of these little annoying sounds, but one never knows.....

[3rd&4thT]

Originally Posted by seanmccoy

Okay. I was just curious because I've been working on a project with a female speaker who produces the highest number of mouth clicks and pops of anybody I've ever recorded. I've been using a UMT70S through a Grace 101, and the vocal quality is very good, but the cleaning process is driving me nuts. My logic circuits can't jive with the idea that a slower mic or pre would somehow magically ignore some of these little annoying sounds, but one never knows.....

1) The mic is wonderful. The Grace is a great preamp, but that's your problem. Try swapping it for some Neve or API clone. If budget is a problem, think Chameleon, Golden Age Project Pre73 or even one of those group buy ACMP preamps being sold off for $200.

2) Notch out around 8K, restoring the air above it. That's the usual core frequency for these noises.

3) Try running the file through a 78/vinyl de-clicker plugin. It won't get 'em all, but the waveform is surprisingly similar.

Good luck,
3rd&4thT

[seanmccoy]

Originally Posted by 3rd&4thT

1) The mic is wonderful. The Grace is a great preamp, but that's your problem. Try swapping it for some Neve or API clone. If budget is a problem, think Chameleon, Golden Age Project Pre73 or even one of those group buy ACMP preamps being sold off for $200.

I have a GTQC, 312A and Vintech 1272. The Vintech is too low gain and I haven't liked the BAE on voices, but I may give the Aurora a shot. It's obviously far more colored than the Grace, but it has tons of quiet gain so I may be able to get away with running it cleaner at a lower input level. As long as it's not so radically different that I won't be able to match it with the previously recorded tracks, it's worth a try!

Originally Posted by 3rd&4thT

3) Try running the file through a 78/vinyl de-clicker plugin. It won't get 'em all, but the waveform is surprisingly similar.

Good luck,
3rd&4thT

I've been using Izotope RX for some noise reduction, but this woman produces far too many clicks for me to trust an automated removal process. Can't risk any artifacts. Good idea, though—one I have had some limited success with in the past, particularly with spitty "f's" and "th's".

[andychamp]

I've had good results with TLM103 -> GreatRiver preamp -> Distressor (barely working, for safety mainly).

As has been said, making the VO talent comfortable is just as important as the technical side.

[steins]

I sometimes do VO for educational stuff. In my experience, the room (or rather, lack of room) is the most important part. Silent chairs, a clean, noise-free environment and a good VO talent comes second. Then, the gear. I usually set up a Se Reflection filter behind the mic and 3 MiniTraps behind the talent to minimize unwanted reflections. My room is good-sounding for music, but not dead enough for serious VO work. As some other did mention, your finished VO will be compressed and brutally limited, bringing out every dB of unwanted room noise.

As for the signal, my usual path is either U87 or TLM103 -> Great River - > 192 I/O ->PT HD at 24/44. Sometimes I provide a 416 if the client asks for it. I´m dying to test a SM7b, for some reason that one has never found it´s way into my mic locker.

Stein Tore

[jeffsochor]

Originally Posted by seanmccoy

Okay. I was just curious because I've been working on a project with a female speaker who produces the highest number of mouth clicks and pops of anybody I've ever recorded.

I've had the same problem with a female VO talent, cycled through U87, Soundeluxe U99, 421, each through either a Chandler LTD-1, Grace, Digi Pre.... finally happy with an SM7b into an Amek 9098. Mostly radio spots, so it is heavily compressed/limited in the mix stage. Try it, I was pretty surprised this was the combination that worked.

[seanmccoy]

Originally Posted by jeffsochor

I've had the same problem with a female VO talent, cycled through U87, Soundeluxe U99, 421, each through either a Chandler LTD-1, Grace, Digi Pre.... finally happy with an SM7b into an Amek 9098. Mostly radio spots, so it is heavily compressed/limited in the mix stage. Try it, I was pretty surprised this was the combination that worked.

I don't have an SM7B, though it has worked its way to the top of my priority list. But I'd be curious to see if a low-output dynamic like that would work well on a soft-spoken woman such as this. If this project was for normal broadcast, with constant music filling in all the gaps, none of this would be a problem. But it's for an educational course and will likely be totally naked most of the time. I've recorded thousands of voice-based projects with hundreds of people, and this one is definitely a tough one.

[3rd&4thT]

Originally Posted by seanmccoy

I don't have an SM7B, though it has worked its way to the top of my priority list. But I'd be curious to see if a low-output dynamic like that would work well on a soft-spoken woman such as this. If this project was for normal broadcast, with constant music filling in all the gaps, none of this would be a problem. But it's for an educational course and will likely be totally naked most of the time. I've recorded thousands of voice-based projects with hundreds of people, and this one is definitely a tough one.

Your mic is great! and it's not the problem. I understand the temptation, but the Grace, wonderful as it is for many purposes, is an unmerciful xray with vocal problems. Try swapping the preamp before you spend any money on another mic.

BTW, is your talent sipping warm water while recording? If not, she should. A lot of the worst saliva percussion happens with drymouth.

Best,
3rd&4thT

[Lenny]

You already said you have an api lunch box. I would think any of the api, mic preamps, eq,compressor, will work great with a neumann mic, I have an akg 414tl, and it doesn't sound as natural as either the M149 or the tlm 193. I also have lunchbox with 550b eq's and i use api 200 series preamps and compressor,gate etc., but that is for singing and it sounds open and natural to my ears.

[gorillainthemix]

Originally Posted by TVPostSound

With a 416?? Sounds like you're trying to make up for the room.

dfegad
tutt
In the last 2 years I have recorded almost 1,000 voiceovers in a $50,000 iso booth...with a Sennheiser MKH416.
If you feel a need to eq your voiceovers differently, be my guest. You won't hear me make any ridiculous claims about your room. All my clients (from Philips and Axe, to Nintendo and Mitsubishi) are happy campers leaving my studio.

I'm working with the top voiceovers in Europe and sometimes have APT/ISDN sessions with America (last one I recorded Greg O'Neill for Philips, since you're in Burbank I assume you know who that is).
The parameters I gave where averages, all voices are different.

[Franz]

That's a cosmetic EQ. You don't dip 250 Hz nessesarily because you have to, but sometimes rather because it sounds right.
If you allways have to do that, I would also say that the room is bad. However there's more to voice over productions than
making it sound natural. Sometimes unnatural is just right. Especially in the world of commercials and movie trailers.

[gorillainthemix]

Originally Posted by Franz

That's a cosmetic EQ. You don't dip 250 Hz nessesarily because you have to, but sometimes rather because it sounds right.
If you allways have to do that, I would also say that the room is bad. However there's more to voice over productions than
making it sound natural. Sometimes unnatural is just right. Especially in the world of commercials and movie trailers.

Exactly.
I usually dip between 200-350 (depending on voice), because it creates space in the mix for other elements and it still leaves the VO up front and dominant. It also doesn't take anything away from the sound of the particular voice in question, that's how good the room is.
If I don't do this, the rest will and your spot will sonically get killed in a commercial block by all the others.

[OSchmitz]

As a vo talent I work more and more via ISDN/APTx. That means that I have to deliver a nearly unprocessed sound, so the studios can do anything they want to do with it. Here is the equipment I use:

Booth: Desone
Mic: TLM-103
PreAmp: Tube Tech MEC 1A
Converter: Benchmark ADC 1
Cables: Vovox (digital and analog)

[Franz]

Originally Posted by The Dutch Master

Exactly.
I usually dip between 200-350 (depending on voice), because it creates space in the mix for other elements and it still leaves the VO up front and dominant. It also doesn't take anything away from the sound of the particular voice in question, that's how good the room is.
If I don't do this, the rest will and your spot will sonically get killed in a commercial block by all the others.

Yes!

My I ask how wide of a Q you usually end up with?

[gorillainthemix]

Originally Posted by Franz

Yes!

My I ask how wide of a Q you usually end up with?

for that range usually very wide.

[seanmccoy]

Originally Posted by The Dutch Master

Exactly.
I usually dip between 200-350 (depending on voice), because it creates space in the mix for other elements and it still leaves the VO up front and dominant. It also doesn't take anything away from the sound of the particular voice in question, that's how good the room is.
If I don't do this, the rest will and your spot will sonically get killed in a commercial block by all the others.

Right on. My booth, though very well designed, has a tiny bump around 315 Hz that only certain low females and mid-range males tend to push. Fortunately, though, as you mentioned, this is right in that muddy vocal frequency range that we often carve out a little anyway for the vast majority of mixes, both music and broadcast.

I don't believe there's a room on the planet that doesn't have "a sound." Some just sound better than others.

[stagefright13]

The Sm7 is what I use for sssy poppy voices. I comes with a built in pop filter AND an extra overlarge one for double protection. That and a U87 should be about all ya need. And both are fantastic for rock music. My booth is about 10' by 12' plenty big and comfy but not super fancy. And I use mobile bass traps. Maybe it's just me but some commercials I can hear the room and sounds unnatural in an advertising sound setting.

John

[voiceactor]

Certainly an interesting thread you people have going here.

[puuluu]

Let´s hear some of your VO´s, folks!
It would be interesting to hear a VO ( ready commercial, or plain voice) and know what as used making it.

[gorillainthemix]

Colt Cleartec (deep male)
Mario Power Tennis (soft female)
Dymo (soft male)