Is there a NEVE 33609 J/D Modification? True or False?

[DONNX]

NEVE 33609 J/D Modification?
Hello Slutz! Got a AMS neve 33609 J/D and I really think this is one of my favorite compressor/limiter for tracking and drum bus duties overall. Its just adds a beautiful color to the tracks as some of you know already.

I have read here on GS that there is some kind of small resistor removal modification (R24 & R25) that once removed/or just lifted of contact in the chain, it would make this compressor sound closer to the original Neve 33609 (holy grail of the classic neve comps) and better than the stock configuration.

I realize after some research that the original 33609 had different transformers so that alone will make it sound different from my experience with gear. My question to anyone who knows, is this modification legit? Or is it a true street secret for the new J/D comps to sound better than stock?

I am very hesitant to even mess with the resistors to change the ohm load on the input stage in order for it to sound slightly better if any. I do notice a sound difference when switching the impedance on the classic neve modules from "hi" to "low" (1.2k to 300ohms). The source sounds thicker at 300ohms (low). I wonder if this mod is doing the same effect? Also impedance settings on the Groove Tubes Vipre has the same effect and a broader range of ohm settings. Which is a monster of a tubed preamp btw. One of my favorites for that " in your face" vocal sound.

I think it sounds great like it is stock, but my curiosity is begging me to ask you all if you know about this mod? Or is it a fairy tale? There was only one guy here that mentioned it. Thanks

[whitepapagold]

Interesting... +1 for curiosity

Though I wouldn't change a thing on mine even if its true! Thats a zero complaint box for me!

I'd probably be more interested in a mod that makes AMS actually release the 2254...

[Geoff_T]

Originally Posted by DONNX

NEVE 33609 J/D Modification?
Hello Slutz! Got a AMS neve 33609 J/D and I really think this is my favorite compressor/limiter for tracking and mix bus duties overall. Its just adds a beautiful color to the tracks as some of you know already.

I have read here on GS that there is some kind of small resistor removal modification (R24 & R25) that once removed/or just lifted of contact in the chain, it would make this compressor sound closer to the original Neve 33609 (holy grail of the classic neve comps) and better than the stock configuration.

I realize after some research that the original 33609 had different transformers so that alone will make it sound different from my experience with gear. My question to anyone who knows, is this modification legit? Or is it a true street secret for the new J/D comps to sound better than stock?

I am very hesitant to even mess with the resistors to change the ohm load on the input stage in order for it to sound slightly better if any. I do notice a sound difference when switching the impedance on the classic neve modules from "hi" to "low" (1.2k to 300ohms). The source sounds thicker at 300ohms (low). I wonder if this mod is doing the same effect? Also impedance settings on the Groove Tubes Vipre has the same effect and a broader range of ohm settings. Which is a monster of a tubed preamp btw. One of my favorites for that " in your face" vocal sound.

I think it sounds great like it is stock, but my curiosity is begging me to ask you all if you know about this mod? Or is it a fairy tale? There was only guy here that mentioned it. Thanks

Hi

I'm sure that if you used the search function you would find the original thread.

The resistors in question aren't on the motherboard... they are on the relay/logic circuit board.

They are silly resistors and I can't figure out why they were fitted. They make the input impedance around 600 ohms instead of the normal 10Kohm.

That is like making the line input of your 1073 600ohm instead of 10Kohm... for what purpose?

The attachment is from the AMS-Neve 33609 tech manual pdf on their site.

[jjblair]

I have an early 33609. It's either an "a" or a "b." I don't understand why it's supposed to be a "holy grail." I like it, and it's useful, but it's not my fav.

[Geoff_T]

Originally Posted by jjblair

I have an early 33609. It's either an "a" or a "b." I don't understand why it's supposed to be a "holy grail." I like it, and it's useful, but it's not my fav.

Hi

You won't have any problems selling it!

[leebridges]

Originally Posted by jjblair

I have an early 33609. It's either an "a" or a "b." I don't understand why it's supposed to be a "holy grail." I like it, and it's useful, but it's not my fav.

...yah...how much you want for it?

[DONNX]

Originally Posted by Geoff_T

Hi

I'm sure that if you used the search function you would find the original thread.

The resistors in question aren't on the motherboard... they are on the relay/logic circuit board.

They are silly resistors and I can't figure out why they were fitted. They make the input impedance around 600 ohms instead of the normal 10Kohm.

That is like making the line input of your 1073 600ohm instead of 10Kohm... for what purpose?

The attachment is from the AMS-Neve 33609 tech manual pdf on their site.

Thanks Geoff. I really appreciate the help and clarification. So this won't hurt it eh, if I lift one side of those boogers up? I just bought this not too long ago. Don't want it to crap out on me before getting some good use out of it.

So how much do want for the original Mr Blair?


Geoff I added another photo. I hope this is the right board sir.

This is the board without the trannies, next to the PSU coil with r24, 225 and in,out, connectors.

Is this the right set of resistors? All I would have to do is heat one end with a solder gun and pull one end up to break the connection right?

Thanks alot Geoff.

[RoundBadge]

Michael Angelo is the guy that knows the mod.
Heres a link:
Neve 8068 / 8078
I'd be interested in trying it out,but really I'm wondering what it does exactly to the sound.switchable would be cool
Contrary to what some older 33609 purists insist,I really like the JD.
even compared to the older 32264's and 'C" I use [mostly relagated for drums or subs].
its a bit more open sounding than the oldies.
i find the jd more useful for mix buss purposes.I used to want to lift a bit of 10k-12k after the C. w/the JD,it just isn't the case.still like em all for diff things
A variable attack mod would be cool.still curious about this resistor mod though.

[DONNX]

Originally Posted by RoundBadge

Michael Angelo is the guy that knows the mod.
Heres a link:
Neve 8068 / 8078
I'd be interested in trying it out,but really I'm wondering what it does exactly to the sound.switchable would be cool
Contrary to what some older 33609 purists insist,I do really like the JD.
even compared to the older 32264's and 'C" I use [mostly relagated for drums or subs].
its a bit more open sounding than the oldies.
i find the jd more useful for mix buss purposes.I used to want to lift a bit of 10k-12k after the C. w/the JD,it just isn't the case.still like em all for diff things
A variable attack mod would be cool.still curious about this resistor mod though.

Well with everyone's help (thanks Roundbadge for the link), I finally figured it out. Just wanted to double check, triple check with you slutz before I actually did the procedure on a $4500 compressor. I am no compressor/preamp DIY guy/builder. But I know how to use a solder iron and do basic stuff. It was simple procedure. Lift one end of the R24 and R25 resistor on the relay board as Geoff and Michael Angelo have mentioned.

WOW! Is the word I will say to you all. I had it strapped on the mix bus and once I lifted the ends up I could not first really notice a big difference. But as the session was playing and I pushed the resistor back into contact, there was a profound difference. To my ears at least. With the R24 and 25 disconnected the sound is clearer and more 3D/OPEN for the lack of better words. When I reconnected the loose end back, I just added a cloud to the signal and lost the high end, in comparison. Definitely a difference and definitely a slutty thing to do Can't believe that little booger resistor did all that. Why in the "BLEEP" did AMS put that on there if doesn't help the sound?

Oh well, I am really happy now with my purchase. Awesome! Awesome! one more Awesome!

And thanks to everyone who helped! Especially Michael Angelo and Geoff Tanner! Back to making music!

[RoundBadge]

Originally Posted by DONNX

Well with everyone's help (thanks Roundbadge for the link), I finally figured it out. Just wanted to double check, triple check with you slutz before I actually did the procedure on a $4500 compressor. I am no compressor/preamp DIY guy/builder. But I know how to use a solder iron and do basic stuff. It was simple procedure. Lift one end of the R24 and R25 resistor on the relay board as Geoff and Michael Angelo have mentioned.

WOW! Is the word I will say to you all. I had it strapped on the mix bus and once I lifted the ends up I could not first really notice a big difference. But as the session was playing and I pushed the resistor back into contact, there was a profound difference. To my ears at least. With the R24 and 25 disconnected the sound is clearer and more 3D/OPEN for the lack of better words. When I reconnected the loose end back, I just added a cloud to the signal and lost the high end, in comparison. Definitely a difference and definitely a slutty thing to do Can't believe that little booger resistor did all that. Why in the "BLEEP" did AMS put that on there if doesn't help the sound?

Oh well, I am really happy now with my purchase. Awesome! Awesome! one more Awesome!

And thanks to everyone who helped! Especially Michael Angelo and Geoff Tanner! Back to making music!

Awesome .just gotta try it now
can you post some pics of the mod you did?
I've got the JD sitting here in front of methumbsup

[RoundBadge]

Oh wait I see you marked them in the previous pic .thanks.looks super easy

[jjblair]

Not selling. What's with the ICs in that pic?

[DONNX]

Originally Posted by RoundBadge

Oh wait I see you marked them in the previous pic .thanks.looks super easy

Yea just refer to the picture and heat one end of the resistor and pull it up off the board. Simple. You can hear the difference when you A/B or push on the resistor to contact it to the board back and forth. Going back and forth, I could hear the obvious difference. Cheers!

[DONNX]

Originally Posted by jjblair

Not selling. What's with the ICs in that pic?

JFYI, Fletcher was selling his original 33609 for $8500. I had to pass.


I see a couple more on Fleabay. Once sold from Dan Alexander for $4800 and another guy is trying to sell his for $7000.

What a slutty piece of gear eh?

[RoundBadge]

Originally Posted by DONNX

Yea just refer the picture and heat one end of the resistor and pull it up off the board. Simple. You can hear the difference when you A/B or push on the resistor to contact it to the board back and forth. Going back and forth, I could hear the obvious difference. Cheers!

Super.It'd be cool to make it switchable.just for the two diff vibes:Light/Dark.
Thanks!

[blakeyboy]

I'm fitting the old green Marinair transformers into a newish 'J' tomorrow for a customer in Belgium. Those Belclere type 10015and6 are much crunchier, while putting the old ones back will (hopefully ) give the fat clear sound of the old ones.......
I can't help wondering why AMS Neve do this version- going back to something like the old board with the Carnhill transformers would have been just as easy to do. I think they're missing a big trick. Unless they really need the extra £40 they save per unit...

Blake.

[syra]

I really like the J/D sound as is although I'd be curious to try this out. I do like how it smooths out the upper midrange... not sure if I'd be a fan of it brighter. Would you say that besides the brightness there is a difference in space?

[Geoff_T]

Originally Posted by blakeyboy

I'm fitting the old green Marinair transformers into a newish 'J' tomorrow for a customer in Belgium. Those Belclere type 10015and6 are much crunchier, while putting the old ones back will (hopefully ) give the fat clear sound of the old ones.......
I can't help wondering why AMS Neve do this version- going back to something like the old board with the Carnhill transformers would have been just as easy to do. I think they're missing a big trick. Unless they really need the extra £40 they save per unit...

Blake.

Hi Blake

Oh God, yes! If they could dump those ugly switches, the logic IC's they need, the 4 pole relays, and surplus wiring, etc., replace them with the toggle switches the original used... it would more than cover the cost of using original transformers.

And dump those 680 ohm input terminating resistors!

Talk about taking a nice product and making it less nice!

When I was at Neve, I begged them to change the locking on/off switch + indicator lamp for a snap-in neon rocker, and the 1777 psyu board for an IC regulator but they wouldn't do it.... until years after I left with the /C.

Then they came up with the ugly switches, cheaper transformers and input resistors...

Makes sense?

[Geoff_T]

Originally Posted by jjblair

Not selling. What's with the ICs in that pic?

Hi

They are the logic IC's required to interface between the expensive and ugly front panel switches and the expensive 4 pole relays that switch the audio...

Versus inexpensive 2P C/O toggle switches!

[whitepapagold]

Originally Posted by RoundBadge

Awesome .just gotta try it now
can you post some pics of the mod you did?
I've got the JD sitting here in front of methumbsup

PLEASE post your opinion if you try the mod! I am like you- I LOVE the 33609 as is! In electrical engineering theory, this stuff is obviously true... BUT in reality, Im not finding my 33609 lacking sonically whatsoever...

But Im also not trying to make it sound exactly like the originals...

[jjblair]

Originally Posted by DONNX

JFYI, Fletcher was selling his original 33609 for $8500. I had to pass.


I see a couple more on Fleabay. Once sold from Dan Alexander for $4800 and another guy is trying to sell his for $7000.

What a slutty piece of gear eh?

Hey, if somebody offered me $8k, they can have it. But really, I like to use it, but it's not in my list of "indispensable" gear.

[AB3]

I have not tried the 33609, but the Vintage Designs CL1MKII compressor is one of my favorites. I use it on vocals, and just about anything. Great for drum buss, mix buss, etc. Seems that there are not a lot of users here though.

[RoundBadge]

Originally Posted by AB3

I have not tried the 33609, but the Vintage Designs CL1MKII compressor is one of my favorites. I use it on vocals, and just about anything. Great for drum buss, mix buss, etc. Seems that there are not a lot of users here though.

Yeah I've heard its kind of a more hi fi vibe to the Neve.
been meaning to check one out.that and Geoff's comp

[AB3]

DEAR MERCENARY PEOPLE: PLEASE send Roundbadge the Vintage Designs unit to check out. This guy has probably heard every compressor just about. If he loves it, think what it would do for sales and assistance to other people. I know I love it, but I have not heard as many compressors as he has heard. So - there is my pitch.

Originally Posted by RoundBadge

Yeah I've heard its kind of a more hi fi vibe to the Neve.
been meaning to check one out.that and Geoff's comp

[RoundBadge]

yeah Fletcher gotin touch a while back. I gotta call Merc at some point
so many comps,so little time.
kinda scary how many new units have come out in the last couple years.

[MsM]

Input impedance of a piece of gear, which you change when removing the input loading resistors on the J/D, can affect the behaviour/sound of the preceding unit in the signal chain, in some cases. That might account for differences heard with and without the input resistors. Some transformers may change their frequency response, and passive circuits, for example an EQ, are designed for a certain load of its output. For an LA-4, it's in the manual recommended to bridge the output with a 620 ohm 1/2 W resistors, if the next stage has a high input impedance, to have a proper loading of the output stage. (How much this affects the sound, I haven't tried yet, haven't had time to connect the pair.)

Maybe not that big effect/noticable with modern gear, but a possible source for differences in sound when disconnecting the J/D input resistors.

As usual, let your ears decide

[Geoff_T]

Originally Posted by MsM

Input impedance of a piece of gear, which you change when removing the input loading resistors on the J/D, can affect the behaviour/sound of the preceding unit in the signal chain, in some cases. That might account for differences heard with and without the input resistors. Some transformers may change their frequency response, and passive circuits, for example an EQ, are designed for a certain load of its output. For an LA-4, it's in the manual recommended to bridge the output with a 620 ohm 1/2 W resistors, if the next stage has a high input impedance, to have a proper loading of the output stage. (How much this affects the sound, I haven't tried yet, haven't had time to connect the pair.)

Maybe not that big effect/noticable with modern gear, but a possible source for differences in sound when disconnecting the J/D input resistors.

As usual, let your ears decide

Hi

I fully concur that the 680 ohms on the input to the 33609JD primarily affects how the preceding equipment behaves... indeed that's why I thought it an odd "improvement" to undertake. Prior to Michael Angelo mentioning it I was blissfully unaware of the mod... having not had much to do with the latest offering of the unit.

The 680 ohms harks back to an era, 50 years ago and beyond, where equipment was set up as 600 ohm input and output. These days, bridging inputs, 10Kohm or thereabouts, are the order of the day and will have minimal affect on preceding equipment.

It's how the unit was originally set up.

Like Blake, I'm convinced that the main difference in sound is the transformers (and definitely not swapping a BA640 for a BA440 for the amplification).

[blakeyboy]

Hi Geoff
On another thread I listed my misgivings about the input transformer loading on the modern 33609. It had a 10k reistor added to the 2k2 I expected. Lo and behold, I moved on to channel two this evening and the 10k wasn't there. The input transformers were loaded differently! Well spotted test department. Not.

Blake.

[Geoff_T]

Originally Posted by blakeyboy

Hi Geoff
On another thread I listed my misgivings about the input transformer loading on the modern 33609. It had a 10k resistor added to the 2k2 I expected. Lo and behold, I moved on to channel two this evening and the 10k wasn't there. The input transformers were loaded differently! Well spotted test department. Not.

Blake.

Hi Blake

Indeed... and there was another thread a year or more ago about the 1073's and the note in the manual to remove the 5K1 loading resistor if used in a rack with faders... the guy posted a photo showing that they had not been removed in the AMS-Neve rack.

I love the company, I have strong ties, many friends and much loyalty as can be seen on my site where I won't help folks clone their gear...

But it's stuff like this makes me frown...

[syntheasy]

The mod works very well!
Now my 33609 JD is more open and has more depth than ever.
You really love this very easy mod,
Luca