Lexicon reverbs: a brief bestiary

[RKrizman]

Originally Posted by Nobody Special

They're very close, Sean. The PCM90/91 Random Hall came from the 300 Random Hall, which is very, very close to the 480L. The PCM90/91 has a 20-bit memory as opposed to the 18-bit memory in the 480L. It also has an extra bit in its coefficient architecture. These result in a slightly cleaner sound in the PCM version.

I have a 300. What presets correspond to Random Hall? Large Hall?

Thanks,
R

[Michael Carnes]

Originally Posted by RKrizman

I have a 300. What presets correspond to Random Hall? Large Hall?
R

They may be listed in the manual, but you can easily learn which algorithm is underneath the preset you're running. Load the preset and hold a button (I'm pretty sure it's the Prog/Banks button) for two seconds. It will then show you the name of the algorithm.

If I got the button wrong (don't have a 91 close by at the moment), just try the others. A lot of people don't know that the 81 and 91 have online help by holding the buttons down.

[DanDan]

I have a 480 memory Cartridge here. I haven't used it for years. Would anyone like to have it? Free, just pay the postage.
DD
Sound Sound - Homepage

[RKrizman]

Originally Posted by Nobody Special

They may be listed in the manual, but you can easily learn which algorithm is underneath the preset you're running. Load the preset and hold a button (I'm pretty sure it's the Prog/Banks button) for two seconds. It will then show you the name of the algorithm.

If I got the button wrong (don't have a 91 close by at the moment), just try the others. A lot of people don't know that the 81 and 91 have online help by holding the buttons down.

Found it in the 300 manual, thanks.

-R

[audio ergo sum]

Originally Posted by Nobody Special

Makes all sorts of sense, and I'm sorry we don't have such a document for you. To be completely truthful, I'm not sure when we'll have it. Only thing I can suggest is simply to audition the presets with your source audio and choose what you like. In the end, that's the measure that matters.

To carry that a bit farther, the names themselves are descriptive up to a point. You know a percussion-labeled preset will be more diffuse so that transients don't rattle around. You know that a vocal-labeled preset will be less-diffuse, with perhaps a hint of discrete echo. But I'm not at all sure how I'd draw a meaningful text distinction between ElephantShoe1 and ElephantShoe2. They'll be similar, but depending on your particular snare drum (or Ophicleide) either one could be the preset of choice.

N.S.

Thank you. Having a table to look at would give one a quick idea what was intended.

That can't be difficult to do. Just a column for each parameter and a line for each preset.

What happened in the last years at Lexicon? Do you find explaining your presets and algorithms redundant? I certainly don't.

Couldn't you even copy/paste a lot of stuff from the older manuals?

[seancostello]

Hi all:

I have been doing some reading, listening, and the like about the early Lexicon plates. As far as I can tell, there are a couple of varieties of plate reverbs available in the early Lexicons. The 224 has a couple of Plates, as well as a Constant Density Plate. In the M200, there are 2 types of plates described - one simply referred to as Plate, the other as Rich Plate. The Lexicon 224XL has Plates, Constant Density Plates, and Rich Plates.

Can anyone describe the sonic differences between these plates? I know that the Constant Density Plates are, well, constant density, and are probably kinda close-ish to the EMT250. I've heard Rich Plate. How do the other plates compare? What do people prefer? Why did Rich Plate end up the winner, in the Darwinian sense ("survival of the fittest"="survival of those that survive")?

[seancostello]

Reviving an old thread:

The PCM96 has 2 plate algorithms, Vintage Plate and just plain ol' Plate. NS, if you are reading this, can you give a quick summary of the differences between these?

There are a lot of different Lexicon plates. The 224, 224XL and 200 all had a plate algorithm that seemed to be abandoned after Rich Plate came on the scene. The Constant Density Plate went away after the 224XL. The 480L introduced a new algorithm that was used for plates (I don't know much about that one, except that it seems different from the old Rich Plate). I guess if you are working on something for 30 years, you will come up with a bunch of different algorithms.

[Michael Carnes]

Originally Posted by seancostello

Reviving an old thread:

The PCM96 has 2 plate algorithms, Vintage Plate and just plain ol' Plate. NS, if you are reading this, can you give a quick summary of the differences between these?

Forgot about this thread. I think the Vintage Plate is a bit 'platier'. It has a softer attack that's a bit more diffuse. Some aspects of it come from the PCM70, but the back end has the more advanced EQ from the PCM96. Overall, I prefer it to the regular PCM96 plate.

[Sput]

Originally Posted by Nobody Special

Forgot about this thread. I think the Vintage Plate is a bit 'platier'. It has a softer attack that's a bit more diffuse. Some aspects of it come from the PCM70, but the back end has the more advanced EQ from the PCM96. Overall, I prefer it to the regular PCM96 plate.

Vintage Plate?? Is that a different algorythm??
I don't recall my PCM96 having more than 1 plate algorythm... but I've been wrong in the past!

Are you refering to "colored plate" preset??

Thanks!

[Michael Carnes]

Originally Posted by Sput

Vintage Plate?? Is that a different algorythm??
I don't recall my PCM96 having more than 1 plate algorythm... but I've been wrong in the past!

Are you refering to "colored plate" preset??

Thanks!

Sorry, but Vintage Plate isn't in the hardware. It's currently a plugin-only algorithm.

[thermos]

Originally Posted by Nobody Special

Sorry, but Vintage Plate isn't in the hardware. It's currently a plugin-only algorithm.

I like that one a lot more than the regular plate algo too, I'm surprised more people haven't talked about it. It's kind of a standout in the bundle to me.
It should really be in the hardware I would say.

[Sput]

Originally Posted by thermos

I like that one a lot more than the regular plate algo too, I'm surprised more people haven't talked about it. It's kind of a standout in the bundle to me.
It should really be in the hardware I would say.

I certainly would say so too!!

Thanks god I have a REAL vintage plate around for those duties...

[RKrizman]

Originally Posted by Nobody Special

Sorry, but Vintage Plate isn't in the hardware. It's currently a plugin-only algorithm.

What!? I'm calling a technical foul.

-R

[DarkSky Media]

Originally Posted by Nobody Special

Forgot about this thread. I think the Vintage Plate is a bit 'platier'. It has a softer attack that's a bit more diffuse. Some aspects of it come from the PCM70, but the back end has the more advanced EQ from the PCM96. Overall, I prefer it to the regular PCM96 plate.

So, NS... Is an update for hardware owners in the works, or do we need to contemplate the obsolescence of our hardware units and go get the software in order to have access to Vintage Plate?

[Dan]

Originally Posted by DSM Interactive

So, NS... Is an update for hardware owners in the works, or do we need to contemplate the obsolescence of our hardware units and go get the software in order to have access to Vintage Plate?

and I was wondering if a working 10.6 driver is coming out. It seems lexicon is taken the tried and true MOTU approach of coming out with new stuff instead of fixing what they've already sold.

[RKrizman]

Yeah, what's with that. We shelled out good bucks for a hardware unit that does not work as advertised. Now we miss out on updates?

-R

[jrakarl]

Originally Posted by seancostello

The PCM90/91 and M300 are obviously descended from the 480L, but many of the lower end Lexicons that followed (PCM80/81, LXP1/5/15) seem like they were based on the 224XL algorithms, at least by the descriptions of the parameters. Sean

Damn, I wish I'd known that prior to investing in a PCM80!

[Shy]

Originally Posted by jrakarl

Damn, I wish I'd known that prior to investing in a PCM80!

You should actually be happy.

[jrakarl]

Hi NobodySpecial and everyone here - you guys seem to know a lot about this stuff, so I thought I'd put it out there...
I have seen an advertisement from someone selling a PCM90 and in that ad it apparently quotes someone from Lexicon, saying that the 80 and the 90 are intended to work together to form some sort of awesome reverb / effects monster... I'll quote!

"The PCM 90 features a range of versatile high-quality reverberation programs which derive their heritage from Lexicon's top-of-the-line studio processors, the 480L and Model 300. Its unique dual-processor architecture -- featuring two of Lexicon's proprietary reverb DSP ICs, the Lexichip(TM) II, allows unparalleled flexibility in reverberation quality and control. It's companion product, the PCM 80, offers the highest quality effects, with reverb heritage from the Lexicon's legendary PCM 70. "The two units are designed to be able to be used as a system," says Lexicon's Director of Product Management, Steve De Furia "and while you can, of course, use the units independently, together they're phenomenal." Both units feature true stereo capability with 1 8-bit A/D converters as well as digital inputs, and a 24-bit internal digital bus.


As a system, the PCM 80 and PCM 90 offer as many as 4 independent inputs and outputs, digital or analog. The PCM 90 ships with 250 all-new presets designed with real-world applications in mind. Banks and rows are labeled logically and clearly so you can find the sounds you want as you scroll through the presets"

So my question is this.. are these units somehow able to be linked together, or are there some specific applications where these units used together can create something that individually they cannot? What are the major differences between these units that suggests that they are 'together' the answer to my reverb prayers? Is one better bypassing these and going thraight into PCM96 plug-in territory?

I have a newly acquired PCM80 and am considering whether a PCM90 would be a worthwhile addition on top of this... ????

Thank you all...

Originally Posted by Nobody Special

Many good remarks here about favorite presets and such. I'd certainly be interested in getting as close as possible to some old classics. I'd also like to gather up some user-generated presets. We don't have a good way to organize such an effort just yet, but I'd think something with MIDI bulk dump might be one way to get there.

I do hope that some of you have been rolling up your sleeves and getting into programming the box (or even some of your older Lexes). One thing I've learned is that different people--with different applications, different ears, and different points of view--can come up with some unique and useful sounds. I know that we've just scratched the surface of what the box can do, and I've love to offer a folder of user favorites.

Toby, hang onto that 200. It's like your favorite old aunt. She's crotchety and a little limited for sure, but even if you found a replacement, it would never be the same.

I've been a bit busy of late, but I hope I can get back in here before too long and cover a few more areas of interest.

[jrakarl]

Originally Posted by Shy

You should actually be happy.

I'm trying to get the best bang for the buck but also cover bases... I'm happy .. or will be when it arrives

[RKrizman]

Originally Posted by Nobody Special

Sorry, but Vintage Plate isn't in the hardware. It's currently a plugin-only algorithm.

Bumping this comment. Should have never leaned over to pick up the soap.

-R

[Michael Carnes]

Originally Posted by jrakarl

So my question is this.. are these units somehow able to be linked together, or are there some specific applications where these units used together can create something that individually they cannot?
I have a newly acquired PCM80 and am considering whether a PCM90 would be a worthwhile addition on top of this... ????

No, the units don't link up in any way. I don't remember the line from Steve DeFuria that you quoted, even though I worked with him for years. It's not untrue, but it's perhaps a little hard to parse.

The PCM80 is an effects unit with a decent 'verb. You wouldn't use the verb for a main reverb, but it's fine for an individual track. Its strength is effects and the ability to cascade those effects with reverb. The PCM90 is strictly reverb with little in the way of effects, and has much stronger reverb.

The two boxes together cover a lot of ground in a mix, but I've never thought of them as a 'system'.

If you're considering a PCM90, you might want to think about a '91 instead. Same sounds and more, and easier to service.

[Steve Honest]

hi chaps
i need to buy a LARC for my 480L
if your seliing one , i would live to hear from you
steve

[Fishmed]

Originally Posted by Steve Honest

hi chaps
i need to buy a LARC for my 480L
if your seliing one , i would live to hear from you
steve

There is a WTB (Want to Buy) section in the Classifieds section.

[RKrizman]

Originally Posted by Nobody Special

If you're considering a PCM90, you might want to think about a '91 instead. Same sounds and more, and easier to service.

Hey NS, since you're still floating around here how about chiming in on some of the threads where people are unhappy that their PCM 96s don't work as advertised?

-R

[drBill]

Originally Posted by RKrizman

Hey NS, since you're still floating around here how about chiming in on some of the threads where people are unhappy that their PCM 96s don't work as advertised?

-R

Yes. How about Lexicon addressing some of the issues they have created, and then abandoned. Lexicon is on the precipice of a huge PR avalanche unless they step up and do the right thing by their customers.

I've been a long standing Lexicon customer, and as of now, I'll never buy another no matter HOW good it is.

So how about it NS? Care to address any of the issues?

Need a link to that thread? Here you go.....

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/high-...regrets-5.html

[SoZo]

not to mask the above users concerns but I had a question...


Im currently running it in Nuendo spdif with a Raydat...

how much different does the PCM91 sound going through its XLR's rather then its spdif ?

[Michael Carnes]

Originally Posted by drBill

So how about it NS? Care to address any of the issues?

As I've said any number of times, an update to the FW driver is in development right now. Our best driver engineer has been at it quite a while and currently has the code in internal testing. There has been considerable work to improve networking stability in addition. I'm guessing it will be in Beta pretty soon (I think we have enough testers--please don't contact me for early copies).

We're hardly ignoring our customers. Sometimes these things take a while.

[RKrizman]

Originally Posted by Nobody Special

As I've said any number of times, an update to the FW driver is in development right now. Our best driver engineer has been at it quite a while and currently has the code in internal testing. There has been considerable work to improve networking stability in addition. I'm guessing it will be in Beta pretty soon (I think we have enough testers--please don't contact me for early copies).

We're hardly ignoring our customers. Sometimes these things take a while.

Will the new driver address someone running Protools 7.4 on Mac OS 10.411?

Thanks,
-R

[Budda]

Not to cross-post (because I've posted in the "Regrets" thread), but quickly:

I was told a beta would be out end last month. Then I was told there was a "breakthrough" on April 2nd, with a beta to be released within about a week. Now I've been told April 23rd. This beta is supposed to run on SL, but is supposed to also enhance any remote control stuff - Ethernet control, FW audio and control. It's apparently tied up with including Harman HiQ (network) stuff, for whatever reason, so it's got to play nice with other devices they may be writing the code for.

So...
If you can hold your breath for a week or so, some of us may be able to know whether they're on the right track or what.

Still been TOO LONG, though.

Then again, 2 years for Bricasti v2 and no one is beeyatching about that. At least their v1 works properly.

Potato, poh-ta-toe. Everyone has their different issues.

Now, back to talking about Lexicon reverbs.