Mohave vs. Bock vs. Pearlman vs. Peluso, etc for Male Vox?

[TCW]

Hi All,
I have about $1700 (or less!) for a mic that will be used primarily for male rock vocals. Mellow/sparse mixes to aggressive/dense. Which mics should I consider for this purpose? My music style is similar to Coldplay, Radiohead and Live, and people have compared my vocals to that guy from Echo and the Bunnymen and Bono (not intentional).

I would like a blanced tone. Not too vintage/dark, but not too sibilant either. I'm a baritone, but I also sit on higher notes alot. I just listened to Third Eye Blind's first album and I liked the sound of that vocal mic (just to give you an idea).

FYI, I already have an SM7 and a Great River ME-1NV. Good combo, but I'm looking for a top-notch LDC. All the disscussion about the Pearlman TM-1 has me looking that way, but I'm unsure...

Thanks for any suggestions!
TCW

[grooveboxxx]

I have owned a 47LE, MA-200 and the U195 and you can get good results from them with a little work. I like the U87 for rock vocals. I like the way vocals sit in the mix even without compression and eq. My U87 is soon to be on the way to Korby Audio to be modded.

[TCW]

Originally Posted by 529 Pro Audio

In my opinion the TM-1 is extremely balanced, tonally speaking, but given its nature as a tube LDC, it is a thicker sounding microphone which may have you eq'ing in a dense mix depending on how layered the vocals are. The record I just finished featured doubled lead vocals, harmony vocals, and sometimes layered ambient backup vocals. Depending on the rest of the mix, using a beautiful sounding thick tube LDC on everything can be problematic, so it is nice to have a thinner sounding microphone to pair with it.

-Chris

Thanks for the info!

What mic would compliment the TM-1 and give it the space it needs?

[James Lugo]

I have no experience with Peluso.

I wouldn't say the Mojave's the way to go, didn't strike me as a great male vocal mic at all. The TM-1 is a great solid mic and Dave's a good dude. The U195 is a great mic too. If I had to chose I'd go TM-1 or U87.

[TCW]

Originally Posted by James 'LA' Lugo

I have no experience with Peluso.

I wouldn't say the Mojave's the way to go, didn't strike me as a great male vocal mic at all. The TM-1 is a great solid mic and Dave's a good dude. The U195 is a great mic too. If I had to chose I'd go TM-1 or U87.

Are the U87 Ai good mics? Not sure what "Ai" means....

How does the TM-1 and U87 compare in sound?

Thanks!
Tom

[James Lugo]

I have an older 87 (1986) and I like it, it's an ai. The difference is the TM-1 is a tube mic and going to probably be a bit warmer a gushier/slower, the 87 is gonna be harder and slicker sounding.

Honestly the best is to have both, they both have there place, it all depends on the singer, the song, the sound you want etc... My advice is try to get a hold of both and try them. Call Dave he may have a demo mic.

[Dean Roddey]

You can also just back off the mic as well, which will reduce the low end and high end, which is often what you want for background vocals, or anything that you want to push back in the mix. Back in the day the distance from the mic was basically your EQ. And it's a lot cheaper than another mic, so worth trying before you buy something else.

[grooveboxxx]

I have never owned a TM-1 but I did own a 47LE, the TM-1 is point to point and the 47LE is printed circuit board. The 47LE has adjustable polar patterns and the TM-1 has cardioid and omni. The TM-1 uses the same capsule as the 47LE. There is something that I just don't like about chinese capsules. Dave will add a real Neumann capsule(K47) upon request. You could get the TM-1 and have him add the K47 later. I definitely would not go less than a TM-1, pair it up with a pacifica and you got a winner.

[TCW]

Originally Posted by grooveboxxx

I definitely would not go less than a TM-1, pair it up with a pacifica and you got a winner.

grooveboxxx,

Would the Pacifica give me something with the TM-1 that my Great River wouldn't?

[Dean Roddey]

The Pearlman sounds great with the Great River as well. I have the Great River and the P-1 (the 500 version of the Pacifica), and it sounds great with either. You can always use different pre-amp combos with any mic and may be some sort of different vibe, but the GR will sound vunderbar with the Pearlman.

[FadersmakmeHappy]

I like the Bock 195 a good bit, but the Pearlman will be a bit smoother due to the tube. The Bock can be just a bit bright on the top end, a little too true to source for my taste in vocals. Both will sound quite nice with your Great River. I am a huge fan of the Bock 251, but that is a bit out of your stated price range.

It may just be me, but I think a good compressor/limiter is very critical for the overall signal chain for vocals and contributes to the sound coloring.
Maybe James has a nice suggestion. I use a Distressor, Neve, RNC, or UA comp behind the Great River and it makes a big difference hitting my AD converter.

I am not a fan of the peluso mics. I think Perlman and Gefell have more depth and detail in the same price range.

[grooveboxxx]

Originally Posted by TCW

grooveboxxx,

Would the Pacifica give me something with the TM-1 that my Great River wouldn't?

You don't have to have the Pacifica. The TM-1 will sound killer with the Great River. The Pacifica will give you a different coloration that really works with that mic. I used to use the MP2NV for rock and blues and the Pacifica for a more intimate vocal. Those Two pre's with that mic will give you a lot of options. Check it out

[Flagg]

Just like that.
What about the Audio Technica AT4060 ? tube mic and good price also.

[nonamesleft]

keep in mind that I am running my mics through sca neve clones (I think similiar to your great river) as well as a hammer eq, an la3a and distressor... But I have found the mojave ma-200 to be killer on female vox and the telefunken ak-47 to be great for male rock vox. It just has that in your face mids that kill on male vox.

[Daedalus77]

This may seem like it's coming out of left-field, but...

My recommendation is a Gefell UMT-70S.

It is solid-state and transformerless, so it's clean-ish and very detailed, but it is also very euphonic. It is not without character.

Someone (I think it was Joel Hamilton, but I may be wrong) once referred to it as "U87 killer," in that it tends to tread in the same territory, but is better built and better-sounding than the newer 87s.

Also, it's multi-pattern (card., omni, fig.8), so it's extremely utilitarian. You will find yourself using on everything.

Paired with a good preamp (I've used it with our Great River on countless occasions) and perhaps a good dynamics box on the way in (MC77 or Distressor are often used here), and you've got a great vocal sound.

I'm interested in the Pearlman, myself, so among your choices, all of which I've heard, I'd say the TM-1.

But do give the Gefell a good look. It is an amazing (and often under-estimated) mic, me thinks. (If it looked less like a lollipop and more like and old 47, it would probably be more appreciated.)

Best of luck.

[AB3]

I believe that all Peluso Mics and Pearlman mics DO NOT have the complete capsule made in China. I believe just the metal work is Chinese. The diaphrams, I believe are made by John Peluso in America. Someone correct me or edit ths if I am wrong.

Having said that, I thought the Peluso capsule was great on the TM-1 and I also thought the Neumann capsules were great on it.

I also love the Peluso P12. One of my favorite mics. To me, it is like an AEA R84, so much value for the money, it is a must have.

Originally Posted by grooveboxxx

There is something that I just don't like about chinese capsules. Dave will add a real Neumann capsule(K47) upon request. You could get the TM-1 and have him add the K47 later. I definitely would not go less than a TM-1, pair it up with a pacifica and you got a winner.

[mics]

Originally Posted by AB3

I believe that all Peluso Mics and Pearlman mics DO NOT have the complete capsule made in China. I believe just the metal work is Chinese. The diaphrams, I believe are made by John Peluso in America. Someone correct me or edit ths if I am wrong.

Having said that, I thought the Peluso capsule was great on the TM-1 and I also thought the Neumann capsules were great on it.

I also love the Peluso P12. One of my favorite mics. To me, it is like an AEA R84, so much value for the money, it is a must have.

Just to let you know, Pearlman TM1 Capsules are no longer supplied by peluso, Dave now uses a hand made K47a Capsule built in Australia by me.

The pearlman with the K47a capsules sounds Killer.

Cheers

[rascal9]

If you're in So. California come vist Pearlman Mics at NAMM booth 1671! Shirts, stickers,etc....... Thanks....

[grooveboxxx]

[QUOTE=AB3;3808366]I believe that all Peluso Mics and Pearlman mics DO NOT have the complete capsule made in China. I believe just the metal work is Chinese.

The capsule is assembled in the US. But the quality of the chinese metalwork influences the sound. Don't get me wrong those mic's sound good. I just don't like the ess's on chinese metalwork.

[grooveboxxx]

Originally Posted by mics

Just to let you know, Pearlman TM1 Capsules are no longer supplied by peluso, Dave now uses a hand made K47a Capsule built in Australia by me.

The pearlman with the K47a capsules sounds Killer.

Cheers

The capsule is handmade in Australia, is the metalwork also?

[mics]

Originally Posted by grooveboxxx

The capsule is handmade in Australia, is the metalwork also?

Yes, when i say hand made i don't mean shipped. i start with a piece of brass, mill it and drill it, lap it and treat it and then diaphragm it.

thanks,

Ben

[Dean Roddey]

mill it and drill it, lap it and treat it

I had a girl offer to do that for me once. Unfortunately, I was short on cash.

[AB3]

This is great. I would love to hear the Pearlman with the new Capsule. Dave - what is your price now with this new capsule? And what trannie and tube is normally used now?

Originally Posted by mics

Yes, when i say hand made i don't mean shipped. i start with a piece of brass, mill it and drill it, lap it and treat it and then diaphragm it.

thanks,

Ben

[grooveboxxx]

I'm sorry I was not clear. The material that you are working with, is it made in Australia or China? I am always interested in something new. I just like to know what I would be getting. Thank you and congrats on your new gig with Dave. I have spoken to him several times and he is always gracious with his time.

[mics]

Originally Posted by grooveboxxx

I'm sorry I was not clear. The material that you are working with, is it made in Australia or China? I am always interested in something new. I just like to know what I would be getting. Thank you and congrats on your new gig with Dave. I have spoken to him several times and he is always gracious with his time.

the material i am using is Australian.

Cheers

[grooveboxxx]

Originally Posted by mics

the material i am using is Australian.

Cheers

Awesome! I am going to call dave and see if we can arrange a demo. Thank you

[FadersmakmeHappy]

Originally Posted by Dean Roddey

I had a girl offer to do that for me once. Unfortunately, I was short on cash.

Too bad you where short on cash. I won some money at the casino and took her up on the offer. My recommend: less drill it, more lap it. ; )

[TCW]

Thanks for all the feedback!

I have no doubt about the POWER of the TM-1, but how does it translate to pop/dense mixes? That's what has me still thinking about the U87...

Can't get both.

[dan p]

I have both u87ai and PearlmanTM1.I use both with 3 flavors of pre's,GRmp2nv,Avalon 737sp and summit mpc 100a and i"m happy.
Like someone above said,having both covers some ground!Good Luck!
One thing i would like to add here is that you get real world criticism about gear.Most of my purchases as of late have been made by first doing the research then buying, and people here have not let me down.Nice to get all the critical sucka's out there,me included commenting on whats happenin and what's not.GS is a great resource.Good Luck!


Dan P

[grooveboxxx]

The U87 is a workhorse mic. It will cover a lot of basis and do it very well. I feel a U87 sits in a dense mix better. You can find a used U87 between $1600-$1900. Then at some point you can send the U87 to Korby Audio and get it modded. Give them a call you might be surprised that it doesn't cost that much.