Recording deathmetal guitars.. approach?
George Necola
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#1
8th January 2009
Old 8th January 2009
  #1
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Recording deathmetal guitars.. approach?

for the brutalstuff, what is your favourite micing-technique (favourite mics)?

I usually use an i5 + condensor (small or large) close (same speaker) and a distant-microphone (sometimes).

marshall, laboga-4x12" or 2x12"..

cheers
#2
8th January 2009
Old 8th January 2009
  #2
Gear interested
 

I've toyed with the i5 in the past and really liked it for a while, but I always seam to come back to the 57. Usually right on the grill cloth of a Mesa Recto or Traditional 4x12 aimed around the edge of the dust cap. Sometimes I'll toss an AE3000 condenser in there as well on the same speaker and mix it in low.

Sounds like this.
George Necola
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#3
8th January 2009
Old 8th January 2009
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daveotero View Post
I've toyed with the i5 in the past and really liked it for a while, but I always seam to come back to the 57. Usually right on the grill cloth of a Mesa Recto or Traditional 4x12 aimed around the edge of the dust cap. Sometimes I'll toss an AE3000 condenser in there as well on the same speaker and mix it in low.

Sounds like this.
that is just one SM57?

every riff was recorded 2 times each side?

cheers
#4
8th January 2009
Old 8th January 2009
  #4
Gear interested
 

If youre talking about the first blog post at that link (Defeat the Lie) the yes, each guitar part was tracked twice. Layers for other melodies,leads, etc. were tracked on top of the 4 rhythms.

And yea, single 57 into a Seventh Cricle Audio N72.
#5
8th January 2009
Old 8th January 2009
  #5
Gear Head
 
Keith_EFK's Avatar
 

well, this is just a humble suggestion..
i'm using some old sm-57(unidyne), neumann tlm193 and sennheiser e906.
and using over-sized 12x2 cabs from bogner and diezel, sometimes
way-oversized custom cabs. also, sometimes i use some bass cabs like 4x10,
with the over-sized 12x2.
(btw, i've tried some sub-woofers for guitar cabs, like 1x15 from diezel, found unnecessary.)

mics are always aim straight to the center of the cones.
old unidyne + some api or api-like pres works very good,(to my ears)
tlm 103,193 + neve or neve designed stuff like focusrite isa110/amek 9098 works very good, too.

hope this helps.
#6
8th January 2009
Old 8th January 2009
  #6
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NoisyNarrowBand's Avatar
 

cab depends on what the band brings. usually marshall or mesa boogie, sometimes diezel. 57 angled at dustcab + md421 pointing straight at halfway of the cone. occasionally use a re-20 or an 441 too.

currently experimenting with a royer 121 and it's awesome with the 57. highly recommended for high-gain guitars.

I never use room or distant mics.

pre's are api 3124 or tla classic. the api slays! tla gives the md421 or the re-20 a nice body and takes eq very well.

every rhythm track is at least doubled, sometimes quadrupled. also split di-signal and run through sansamp or other amp-modeler. 're-build' the amp you are recording with the sans-amp and blend to taste.
#7
8th January 2009
Old 8th January 2009
  #7
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by daveotero View Post

And yea, single 57 into a Seventh Cricle Audio N72.
That is one helluva preamp! I find it working great for distorted guitars as well. Although I prefer Senn e906 as mic.
#8
8th January 2009
Old 8th January 2009
  #8
Gear maniac
 
Fabio's Avatar
 

Usually a SM57, sometimes together with a 421 or an Audix. Two different sounds recorded two times each, one with a Mesa Triple Rect. Head and one with a Peavy 5150 Head. Speaker Mesa 4x12. Pre: Api 512 and TG2
#9
8th January 2009
Old 8th January 2009
  #9
Lives for gear
 

SM57 off axis, royer 121 or md421 a few feet back. works like a charm every time.

and yes, double track everything!
#10
8th January 2009
Old 8th January 2009
  #10
I always start with a 57 and a Neumann TLM170. If, after some positional experimentation, that still ain't working, I move on to other mics. However, the 57/170 combo works for me 75% of the time.

Another interesting approach I've had good luck with is a scoopy kick mic (I prefer the Audix D6) with a midrange-heavy dynamic or ribbon. D6-with-121 yields instant 80s thrash tone.

I like using two amps; typically whatever the artist brings in and a second one to "fill in the holes". For example, a scoopy Mesa Rect tone might get filled out with an old, mid-rangey Plexi.
George Necola
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#11
8th January 2009
Old 8th January 2009
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sevendaysoff View Post
SM57 off axis, royer 121 or md421 a few feet back. works like a charm every time.

and yes, double track everything!
a few feet away never worked for me.. what can I expect if microphone is placed properly?
#12
8th January 2009
Old 8th January 2009
  #12
Gear Head
 

We have done some sucessfull recordings whith this Lindell Speakers .

oktava mks 012 to center in vintage 30 element .(very in your face)

Lindell mic one in to EV black label element ( much Low end here )

As you all can see the mic and the cabs are just testcabs actuelly the vey first builds .

We found out that most of the sound is in the Cab itself when testing this we tryed the same speakerelement in 4 different cabs Marshall.old Marshall .Engl.and mesa boggie all 4x12 cabs whith the same micposition and same settings from the amp to TG channel .

we also tried different mics but i will try to post some wav files later on as the project is just in the beginning .

The fattest sound i ever heard so far we got whith a U47 Fet
Attached Thumbnails
Recording deathmetal guitars.. approach?-294137.jpg   Recording deathmetal guitars.. approach?-294138.jpg   Recording deathmetal guitars.. approach?-294140.jpg  
George Necola
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#13
8th January 2009
Old 8th January 2009
  #13
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that was not deathmetal..

but thanx.. whats next from lindell? SHOES? trousers? cars?

i wanna have his parfume... please.. Lindel No. 5
#14
8th January 2009
Old 8th January 2009
  #14
#15
9th January 2009
Old 9th January 2009
  #15
Lives for gear
 
Flying_Dutchman's Avatar
 

123
#16
9th January 2009
Old 9th January 2009
  #16
Lives for gear
 
T_R_S's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by George Necola View Post
for the brutalstuff, what is your favourite micing-technique (favourite mics)?
Neve PreAmp with Amp Farm and Eleven Click on link on my sig. to hear an example
George Necola
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#17
9th January 2009
Old 9th January 2009
  #17
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George Necola
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#18
9th January 2009
Old 9th January 2009
  #18
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George Necola's Avatar
bumperoni..

everyones busy with slippermans distorted guitars from hell?
#19
9th January 2009
Old 9th January 2009
  #19
Quote:
Originally Posted by surroundwork View Post
We have done some sucessfull recordings whith this Lindell Speakers .

We found out that most of the sound is in the Cab itself when testing this we tryed the same speakerelement in 4 different cabs Marshall.old Marshall .Engl.and mesa boggie all 4x12 cabs whith the same micposition and same settings from the amp to TG channel .
I've found that the cab is the most overlooked part of the sound. It drastically changes the sound which is obvious. I often switch cabs with a lot of amps til I find the right one. My Victoria champ sounds very different through a closed back vintage Marshall cab.
#20
9th January 2009
Old 9th January 2009
  #20
Gear nut
 

57 on V30 cab (ENGL or Mesa) close up always works for me, sometimes blend in a 421.
#21
10th January 2009
Old 10th January 2009
  #21
Harmless Wacko
 

Boy oh boy...

With the super saturated kids(death and grindcore for starters)all bets and rules are OFF in respect to recording methodologies.

It can be ANYTHING.

Stompboxes. EQ's, exciters and compressors in FX loops. Pre-Amp boxes feeding Tube and/or Solidstate heads and power-amps. Tandem multi-cabinet guitar rigs. Multisound layering of all sorts of various levels of distortion/saturation. Crazy DI rig/Pod thingies. Single note re-inforcing tracks. Chugging tracks. Chord only tracks. Vari-speeding trackings.

Friggin' ENDLESS.

Which is what makes these sort of records so challenging/fun/insanely hard to pull off.

I will say this.

NOTHING, and I mean NOTHING, trumps PERFORMANCE accuracy in this genre.

That is: The kids who can multitrack like ROBOTS win like muthaf*ckers.

In the fabric of my experience... A lot of the better players are the most open-minded guys in terms of trying to get something which both fits the music, their playing style and DOESN'T SOUND LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE in the genre.

That's when it's joy to work on truly heavy records.

When you get THOSE GUYS.

Best regards,

SM.
#22
10th January 2009
Old 10th January 2009
  #22
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andychamp's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by slipperman View Post
(...)
I will say this.
NOTHING, and I mean NOTHING, trumps PERFORMANCE accuracy in this genre.
That is: The kids who can multitrack like ROBOTS win like muthaf*ckers.
In the fabric of my experience... A lot of the better players are the most open-minded guys in terms of trying to get something which both fits the music, their playing style and DOESN'T SOUND LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE in the genre.
That's when it's joy to work on truly heavy records.
When you get THOSE GUYS.
Best regards,
SM.
Amen!
While it's always a blessing to work with great musicians, of whatever genre, the worst criticism usually comes from HM guitarists who blame me for either:
- not making them sound like song X on record Y by band Z, or
- not making them sound the way they hear it in their head (& at the same time expecting me to read their minds about THAT, because they're totally unable to speak non-guitar-ese)

But, yeah, it's great to see their eyes light up when they finally nailed the timing on that 4th take and hear the results of THEIR WORK.
George Necola
Thread Starter
#23
11th January 2009
Old 11th January 2009
  #23
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thanx slipperman..

now I am working on a 1984-scenario, epsilons, who can only play guitar like a robot!

trackking in progress. I will pots something, when finished. 57, 414, marshall cab, ENGL/Laboga combo... untight guitarist..

cheers & thanx
#24
12th January 2009
Old 12th January 2009
  #24
Lives for gear
 
Flying_Dutchman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by George Necola View Post
thanx slipperman..

now I am working on a 1984-scenario, epsilons, who can only play guitar like a robot!

trackking in progress. I will pots something, when finished. 57, 414, marshall cab, ENGL/Laboga combo... untight guitarist..

cheers & thanx
If the guitar guy can´t nail it, you´re lost.
Maybe i can play the guitars and nail the tone...,, pm me

PS: Sorry for the 123 post, i wrote in the wrong window and didnt know how to delete it...
#25
12th January 2009
Old 12th January 2009
  #25
Lives for gear
 
David-Morpheus's Avatar
 

I am currently editing this. It's a young HC/metalcore band.
5150 mk I, 2 takes into a framus 4x12 cab 2 takes to a mesa recto 4x12 cab.

the framus was miced with a SM7b off axis -> LTD-1 -> distressor
the mesa was a SM57 on axis on the dead center of the speaker cone -> custom eisen audio preamp -> distressor

we had an od808 in front of the amp and the guitar was a LTD eclipse with active EMG (81/85)

my oher favourite mikes are md421 and a cheap RM700 ribbon from thomman :D

funny thing is that I hate the SM57 center cone usually and 9 out of 10 times I have tried that before it sucked balls :( here it sounded simply amazing.
Attached Files
File Type: mp3 5150.mp3 (1.38 MB, 152 views)
#26
12th January 2009
Old 12th January 2009
  #26
Gear addict
 
nikodemos's Avatar
 

my favourite set up for "death metal" guitar:
Peavey 6505+
Marshal 1960 4x12 cabinet used in mono(only 2x12 speakers working)
sm57 on axis of upper speaker 5-8cm from cone
TLM 193 on axis of lower speaker 5-8cm from cone
both through Great River's (and maybe an eq touch)

x 2 takes (mics hard panned, opposite on each take)

.....and of course very very tight playing-tracking

i think that 2x12" cabinets are far more easier to record in a 2 mic set up(close mic'ed) from a 4x12" regarding phase problems but it has less low end punch due to smaller cabinet size.....so i ended with the half working 4x12" thing.....2 speakers only but the same cabinet mass as a 4x12".....

i also love the TLM193 on metal guitars because of it's ability to handle massive SPL amounts on "close mic" situations adding great low end without any harshness on the upper mid.
#27
15th January 2009
Old 15th January 2009
  #27
Lives for gear
 
Flying_Dutchman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikodemos View Post
my favourite set up for "death metal" guitar:
Peavey 6505+
Marshal 1960 4x12 cabinet used in mono(only 2x12 speakers working)
sm57 on axis of upper speaker 5-8cm from cone
TLM 193 on axis of lower speaker 5-8cm from cone
both through Great River's (and maybe an eq touch)

x 2 takes (mics hard panned, opposite on each take)

.....and of course very very tight playing-tracking

i think that 2x12" cabinets are far more easier to record in a 2 mic set up(close mic'ed) from a 4x12" regarding phase problems but it has less low end punch due to smaller cabinet size.....so i ended with the half working 4x12" thing.....2 speakers only but the same cabinet mass as a 4x12".....

i also love the TLM193 on metal guitars because of it's ability to handle massive SPL amounts on "close mic" situations adding great low end without any harshness on the upper mid.
Hey malakas :-) just kidding,
my best friend from greece always calls me malakas
i got 6505 without the + and love it , it well gets reamp with the XXX
i´m building a 2x12 at the moment, i like 2x12 more than 4x12 in recording, cause it has better mids in my opinion than from the 4x12 i know, but although less low-end, but in a recording a don´t need that much low-end
if you run into phase problems, get the little labs magic box, hell it´s a fantastic cheating tool, i although tried the uad version, great
i never used tlm 193, but my favourite mic is great river model 1a, tube condenser with foresell smp-2, clean 3d preamp, guitars like sitting in front of the amp
nothing i heard beats it...but ihavent heard it all...
try warehouse speaker, they can get the upper mid spike out of the V30s
Cheers
#28
15th January 2009
Old 15th January 2009
  #28
Gear nut
 

+1 on the players, performances

Style is a biggy too. If it's a bunch of guys doing mostly chugging, palm muted chords and what not versus a bunch of guys who are playing 9000 notes a second, different amps/mics/pres will definitely help get the best tones. Mostly the amps though....gotta match the amp up to the player, style...

My current flavor that I like:

Heil PR30 -> V473 (on grill)
e906 -> V1272 (on grill)
AKG C3000b -> V473 (distant)

I get a nice array of different tones. Heil is smooth, e906 does what it normally does (which I like and I know lots of people don't) and the C3000b sort of does the highly-detailed SM57 thing.

I5 is nice sometimes...especially if you're going to have the same guy layer the parts over and over again and you can change it out with a different mic...gives it a different spin.

Good luck.
#29
16th January 2009
Old 16th January 2009
  #29
Gear nut
 
llarena's Avatar
 

Try This:


Good Guitar wit EMG 81´s tunned at least 4 semitones down + 5150 mk I + mesa recto 4x12 cab + sm 57 close + beta 57 off axis + api 512c preamps + distressor all of this x2 (this was the one I used with DEAD MEANS NOTHING in their first album)


Good Guitar with EMG 81´s tunned down + Tube screamer pedal+ Mesa Dual Rectifier + Mesa Recto 4 x 12 cab + 2 sm57´s close + 2 AKG 414´s close (pad) + api/neve/trident preamps

best
Inaki
#30
16th January 2009
Old 16th January 2009
  #30
Gear addict
 
keiffer's Avatar
 

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