Best high end cables for monitoring

[modooo]

MONSTER M2.4s Biwiring 2x3m HighEnd LS-Kabel

And do not make so much worries about cables or you will need to spend 10,000k for antidepressiva

A cable which costs 10k will be a piss off... Gold is not the best for audio. Its just the best material which doesnt oxidaze as fast as other metals do... silver is the best for transfering power signals,... by the way

[Audiop]

Originally Posted by modooo

silver is the best for transfering power signals,... by the way

For a given amount of money you will get a whole lot of more copper than silver, and therefore the resistance "per dollar" will be waaay less for copper.


/Peter

[Sounds Great]

Originally Posted by Audiop

For a given amount of money you will get a whole lot of more copper than silver, and therefore the resistance "per dollar" will be waaay less for copper.

[opposite.lock.]

you bought monster cables..

that company makes your current commander in chief seem like jesus christ himself.

i speak for gearslutz when i say - shame on you tutt

[holger]

Originally Posted by dannycurtean@yah

Should I bother or are there any realistic upgrades as far as cables at least for my monitoring?

+1 for Kimber here ... PBJ are the unshielded versions. There is a guy here in germany who has the PBJ as a shielded Version - could make also a difference.

Give them a try, you will have a ppair (or more) soon ;-)

For Power cables I have some maybe "secret weapons" here. PM me if you are interested ..

[Matt Syson]

Hi
While paying megabucks for the 'last 8 feet' of cable you may be upset to discover that the last foot or two inside the speaker cabinet is probably 'zip wire' from the hardware store.
Many 'working' studios have speakers wired with 'whatever came to hand' often with half the copper strands hanging out.
Poorly designed 'audiophile' amps can and do get 'fussy' about the attached cables as they can oscillate merrily at very high frequencies.
Removing all oxygen from the listening room does help preseve the 'oxygen free' cabling.
Matt S

[jjblair]

Here's something that the OP might want:

Aaudio Imports: Product

Some nice gold plated fuses for you.

[Matt Syson]

Damnn, I forgot to put my anti Bull**** wellies on before looking at that fuse website!
I suppose id doesn't actually state where you put them, I have my theories on this.
Matt S

[Jim Williams]

Originally Posted by Matt Syson

Hi
While paying megabucks for the 'last 8 feet' of cable you may be upset to discover that the last foot or two inside the speaker cabinet is probably 'zip wire' from the hardware store.
Matt S

Which is why the internal wire should also be replaced. Add to that the sand power resistors (Mills MRB-12 wirewounds are great for that) the iron core inductors (air foil inductors are excellent) and those crappy mylar or electrolytic caps. I use silver foil paper in oil with multistaged InfiniCaps with MIT MultiCaps for the woofers.


Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

[Zep Dude]

A while ago I was given a free sample of IEC Kimber cable (retail +$300) just before a trip to visit my folks. I took it with me and just for fun, conducted a blind abx test with my father who is not an industry professional. He has a nice but not over the top home system (Allison 1 speakers, Macintosh amp etc). I wasn't expecting anything. The system was in another room from the speakers so the test really was blind. In the AB portion we both noticed that one sounded better, which turned out to be the Kimber and in the x portion we both correctly identified which cable that was.

Say what you will, but there's a completely scientific test.

One other thing, the Romex in your wall is likely12ga and most IEC cable supplied with gear is 18ga, so that last 6 feet IS different.

I'm not suggesting anyone needs to buy crazy expensive power cord, but I found converting my studio to all 14ga Belden (twisted and shielded), and 12ga to feed my equitech has made a difference. On some gear I tested I didn't hear a difference but on other gear I did, so it made sense to cover my bases and just go with 14ga throughout.



Another time, I obtained 6 or so samples of various qualites of cable (ranging from $10 to $2000 for a 6 foot pair) and recorded identical audio through them from an apogee DA to a Lavery Gold AD. DAW > Apogee PSX100SE > cable > Lavery AD > DAW.

To this day I have never been able to consistently rate these things. The results of test 1 is completely different from test 2 from test 3. This has led me to believe that with properly balanced audio from component to component the xlr cable is not much of a factor. It's possible that there might be some sort of cumulative effect or that with other audio components (tranformer based compressors etc) that the cable might make a difference. I use Mogami snakes just to assure I have good quality copper making the connections but beyond that I don't worry about it.

One other thing. Back when Sony Studios still existed, I used to hang out with their top mastering engineer (who has been mentioned on this board many times). He is an extremely pragmatic old school type of person not easily taken in by the latest toys. One company installed a $1200 power cord on his Ampex ATR for him to check out. After a month I asked him what he thought , expecting him to make a joke about how ridiculous it was. Instead he said he really heard a difference and that it made his ATR more punchy.

Ok, that last one was anecdotal, but I thought it was worth a mention.

[space2012]

Lava Cable

they all sound diferent, and some opposite.

evidence vovox.
stranded solid.
or...
vandel hul vs. others.
verry stiff temperature templated copper verry soft copper
no shield shielded.
etc...

one of the tricks its in the purity of the copper used and how is produced.
psaudio.com & empirical audio have nice tutorials about diferent copper fabrication methods, giving diferent purity and molecular aligment results "specs".

like glass and ice cubes, light goes or dont or is distorted but goes.

some stranded copper cables adds more harmonics, sometimes nice, and sometimes more highs maybe becouse the added surface area.
solid core conductor dont add harmonics, sounds more defined focused but sometimes skinny/thin.

its personal taste.
there are silver cables, silver plated copper, verry hi quality copper 99.997% OFC or better, etc...
silver seems to be brighter / more highs maybe becouse the skin effect.
some are molecular aligned with verry high voltages, like tesla cables, etc...
some high end $$$ cables color the sound so much that everything sound "the same".

search wiki & gearslutz.

for s/pdif , acousticzen silver byte and philips pxt1000 are the best ive heard so far, but thers like a million brands out there.
for loudspeaker passive by/triamplified systems, for lows and for highs, for some freq. ranges stranded and for others solid seems to give better results.

some brands have fake specs, some brands pubicity promises verry hi quality materials and specs, but... some are an scam, easy to hear, specially when dealing with S/PDIF signals.

some cables need "burn in" time. i dont like those brands., also dont like fast cooling with extreme low temperatures in the fabrication methods.
or verry diferent room temperatures in the fabircation of copper, gives like coffe or chocolate a thin layer on top that mixes with the melted copper and is not as pure giving diferent sonic results when used to move electrons.

[jjblair]

The funny thing, as has been pointed out, is that silver conducts better than everything else. And what I have been told, but can't say first hand, is that oxidized silver still conducts better than everything else, and makes contact just fine. It's not like copper, when it oxidizes, and make the audio sound darker, as has been my experience.

So, I suppose you'd want to silver plate that shit, not gold plate it.

[Audiop]

While it's true that silver has the best conductivity of known materials it's still only about 5% better than copper.

What does it matter if the interconnects has 0.01 ohm or 0.0095 ohm when the output impedance (mostly resistive) is typically 100 ohm for line level gear and the receiving load is about 10 kohm or so.

Might as well change those resistors to something like 99.995 ohm instead of 100 ohm... Point is, it doesn't matter. If someone claim it does, it would be interesting with some kind of proof or at least a sensible argument or a blind listening test.

AFAIK silver do not form silver-oxide under normal circumstances but can form silver-sulfide and that is what makes silver grey/black.

I doubt that a copper conductor sounds darker when it oxidizes unless it's the contact surfaces that are subject to oxide formation which can lead to distortion.

Gold is used because it works very good as a stable surface contact material.


/Peter

[Audiop]

Originally Posted by space2012

some stranded copper cables adds more harmonics, sometimes nice, and sometimes more highs maybe becouse the added surface area.
solid core conductor dont add harmonics, sounds more defined focused but sometimes skinny/thin.

Hi!

May I ask how you came to the conclusion that stranded copper is nonlinear in the amplitude domain?


/Peter

[jjblair]

Peter, I'm trying to understand this. I know nothing about metallurgy. Why is it that with Hosa cables, I noticed degraded sound quality over time? I had been told, and had assumed, it was the oxidation.

And interesting note about the silver-sulfide.

[Teddy Ray]

I use Analysis Plus, Vovox, and Vampire Wire Cables.

Mic Cables are Vovox. Speaker Cables-Analysis Plus, and Interconnects are vampire wire.

Can I hear a difference? Heck if I know, but I always buy the best I can afford in the off chance that *should* it make a difference....provided that topology/science behind the manufacture does not run at odds with common sense/science.

[Zep Dude]

Electrical Conductivity of Metals

Above is a list of the conductivity of metals. Note copper and silver are the highest and that gold is quite a bit less conductive. For this reason I use all silver connectors (neutrik and switchcraft xlr), except my patchbay since silver is not readily available.

Given that I use a copper based cable (mogami, belden etc), it doesn't make sense to go to something LESS conductive at the weakest place in the path, the connector. For this I'd rather have something more conductive -silver on silver to make the connection. Obviously copper to copper wouldn't make sense since copper oxidizes and that oxide is a horrible conductor.

I think the whole "gold connector" thing is more a marketing decision. It looks so "deluxe" and makes you feel good, however a silver connector is the better choice. Just be careful that you're connector is actually silver and not nickel which is very low on the conductivity list. Most companies make both.

[finn]

According to a few well known industry people, this is the stuff
www.transparentcable.com

[CZ101]

Originally Posted by Sounds Great

Yes, even the air temperature, the phase of the moon, etc. The question is what actually has an audible effect.



I respectfully disagree.

LMAO

[SeanBlack]

Originally Posted by jjblair

Here's something that the OP might want:

Aaudio Imports: Product

Some nice gold plated fuses for you.

Thats one of my favorite sites. Its always a good one to visit when you need a laugh.

[Teddy Ray]

Originally Posted by SeanBlack

Thats one of my favorite sites. Its always a good one to visit when you need a laugh.

Home - Synergistic Research

P.W.B. Electronics Home Page
Amazon.com: Denon AKDL1 Dedicated Link Cable: Electronics

Astronomically overpriced audiophile equipment - Boing Boing

SU Skepticism and Science: Audiophile Bullshit
Elemental Voice Hi-Fi Products


The Audiophile B.S. Page

[Audiop]

Originally Posted by Zep Dude

Electrical Conductivity of Metals

Above is a list of the conductivity of metals. Note copper and silver are the highest and that gold is quite a bit less conductive. For this reason I use all silver connectors (neutrik and switchcraft xlr), except my patchbay since silver is not readily available.

Given that I use a copper based cable (mogami, belden etc), it doesn't make sense to go to something LESS conductive at the weakest place in the path, the connector. For this I'd rather have something more conductive -silver on silver to make the connection. Obviously copper to copper wouldn't make sense since copper oxidizes and that oxide is a horrible conductor.

I think the whole "gold connector" thing is more a marketing decision. It looks so "deluxe" and makes you feel good, however a silver connector is the better choice. Just be careful that you're connector is actually silver and not nickel which is very low on the conductivity list. Most companies make both.

And whatabout all solder joints? Joints are typically much thicker than the plating of a good contact and solder less good of a conductor (regarding resistance) than any standard connector.

Wether the thin layer of metal at the contact surface of a connector is silver, gold or nickel don't matter from a conductivity point of view.

The Neutrik gold plated XLR's have 0.2um gold on 2um nickel, that's really really thin and results in a speced contact resistance of 3 milliohm or less. Compare that to the output resistor and input resistor of a common interface as by my explanation further up in this thread.

What can be a problem with contacts is formation of oxides, sulfides and other substances and in order to avoid that it's wise to use a stable and inert material.. such as gold.


/Peter

[Audiop]

Originally Posted by finn

According to a few well known industry people, this is the stuff
Transparent Audio: Interconnects, speaker cables, digital cables, video cables, power conditioning, and power cords for music lovers, audiophiles, home theater enthusiasts, and music and film studio professionals.

I tried to visit that site but couldn't reach it. Maybe they have problems with the cables that connects them to the net..


According to many well educated, intelligent and experienced people in the business, that's bogus and snake oil stuff.


/Peter

[Sean0313]

Silver > OCC > OFC
Normally, Mogami 2549 and Monster 500 are using OFC. They don't use the best material, but good for the price.

Supra Lorad sounds very good and is about 100bucks per meter for bulk cables.

Originally Posted by modooo

A cable which costs 10k will be a piss off... Gold is not the best for audio. Its just the best material which doesnt oxidaze as fast as other metals do... silver is the best for transfering power signals,... by the way

[FredYeah]

Maybe stupid to ask..

But you guys don't mix the signal cables with the powercables, right? That's what in my opinion causes most interference. Powercables and signal cables curling into eachother. All my powercables go via the leftwall to the rear in the studio, the signalcables via the rightwall. (Same as in car audio...)

[Bassmankr]

As far as power in the walls in the US, most typical circuits are on a 15 amp breaker which will most likely have 14 guage wire. 20 amp circuits will have 12 guage.

[Zep Dude]

Originally Posted by Audiop

And whatabout all solder joints? Joints are typically much thicker than the plating of a good contact and solder less good of a conductor (regarding resistance) than any standard connector.

\


/Peter

Agreed, but a correctly soldered cable should be physically contacting the connector with the solder mostly holding it in place. If someone is just floating your connector in a pool of solder then all bets are off. Just in case, I use solder that contains silver. I like the idea of using consistent materials throughout (which is silver in my case).

[Audiop]

I was mostly thinking on all the hundreds of solder connection in the gear we use, that do not affect the audio audibly if well done. :-)

Also the silver in solder hardly effect the resistivity since it's usually between 2-4% content. That said I do use silver solder since I switched over to lead free soldering according to RoHS and the standard SAC solders contains about 3% Ag.


/Peter

[Jim Williams]

I avoid mixing dissimilar metals on connectors to avoid metal migration.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

[Robobaby]

Originally Posted by Gary Schmitt

Get the best you can afford. In your case it's 200 per cable. It's that last 0.1 percent that makes a huge difference. Use your ears and compare as many cables as you can to make an informed decision. Everything contributes to your sound. EVERYTHING. Comparing great cables to good cables is like comparing a Lavry Gold to an Aurora. The great cables will sound better. Listen and you will understand what I mean. Great cables allow you to hear the tiny details.

Its funny you even mention Dan Lavry's name in a thread like this because he has been bunking the myth that cables make a difference for audio signal transmission for years and he has posted as much in this very forum.

You should try reading what he said about it over at PSW where he was a guest moderator for a while. It is logical and explained well enough. The math isn't exactly difficult since it doesn't go much beyond high school physics, nor does it have to.

If you can't be arsed to look for it I'll give you the TLDR version:

Using standard AWG it doesn't matter what you use for speaker cabling. You could use a coathanger if you wanted to prove a point even if it is an inconvenience. Material construction, dialectric, gauge, length and impedance become important in high speed signal transmission (where the bandwidth is in mhz/ghz) or if the cable is extremely long (thousands of feet for audio frequency) so unless you work in telecommunications or the aerospace industry, none of these considerations will ever affect you.

This is basic physics. You should be smelling bulls**t from a mile away when cable companies make claims about their product that amongst other things violate Maxwell's laws.